Stereo Preamp vs AVR used as Preamp

[Zwischen]

This has been niggling my mind for a couple of days

I am planning on buying a Power Amplifier to drive a pair of floorstanders. so basically I have 2 options
Use an intergrated stereo amplifier as a preamplifier or use an AVR with preouts and use the AVR as a preamplifier.

I would like to know what is the difference between the 2
Integrated stereo Amp used as preamplifier or AVR used as a peamplifier.
Since in both the cases the power section will not be used as the Power amplifier will be driving the speakers
Both the cases it will be used for Stereo duty only.
Any SQ difference ?

 

[manoj.p]

AVR can do following:
Multiple inputs, including HDMI, Component, Composite, S-video, analog stereo, analog multi-channel
Multi channel processing
Room Correction/Automatic setup
Crossover and subwoofer management
Hi-Definition audio decoders
Sometimes video processing

That's just the start. I may have missed few things but its a good start to think if these features are important to you.

 

[Zwischen]

AVR can do following:
Multiple inputs, including HDMI, Component, Composite, S-video, analog stereo, analog multi-channel
Multi channel processing
Room Correction/Automatic setup
Crossover and subwoofer management
Hi-Definition audio decoders
Sometimes video processing

That's just the start. I may have missed few things but its a good start to think if these features are important to you.

Well my question is actually this

is there any inherent difference with SQ when u use a stereo smplifier as a Preamplifier for 2 channel stereo or using an AVR as a preamplifier for 2 channel stereo.
Since in both the cases the amplifier section is not going to be used

 

[Zwischen]

Bump...... .

 

[entsurgeon]

they say dedicateds are better . they cite reason such as dedicateds getting more bucks per component viz a viz a jack of all trades avr.
however i am yet to have first hand experience on this. also prices these day arent the be all end all indicators of quality. so a jack of all trades avr may still be a better jack thn a dedicated preamp in same price band.
i d love to know fms first hand experience in recent times.
would like to remind the posters that we shd be comparing apples with apples.

 

[miroflex]

Hi,

It would be possible to give an opinion if you could mention which AVR and stereo amplifier you have in mind. The answer will vary from model to model.

Regards.

 

[Zwischen]

they say dedicateds are better . they cite reason such as dedicateds getting more bucks per component viz a viz a jack of all trades avr.
however i am yet to have first hand experience on this. also prices these day arent the be all end all indicators of quality. so a jack of all trades avr may still be a better jack thn a dedicated preamp in same price band.
i d love to know fms first hand experience in recent times.
would like to remind the posters that we shd be comparing apples with apples.

Thank you. Yes we should compare apples with apples .


Lets use an example

Marantz PM6004 preouts connected to 2 channel Emotiva power amps

VS

Marantz SR5005 preouts connected to Emotiva power amp ( Stereo Duty)



Considering in both the cases the AVR as well as Stereo integrated amplifier will be used as a Preamp and no amplificaton circuitry involved.

which will sound better for stereo

 

[spirovious]

Stereo amp can output better power than similarly rated AVR due to better Power supply,electronic component & dedication.

 

[Zwischen]

Stereo amp can output better power than similarly rated AVR due to better Power supply,electronic component & dedication.

The Stereo Amp is being used as a preamp since it is connected to a Power amplifier. so power factor does not come into play here. same goes for the AVR , it is being used as a Preamp and the Power is being supplied by a Power Amp

So in both cases. Power is beng fed by a Stand Alone power amp and the only role of the AVR and Stereo Amp is Preamplification.

 

[Kittu]

I guess the over all sound signature is controlled by the processor/preamp, unless there is lack of additional power required to drive the speakers , is it really necessary to add a power amp ?

Does power amp factor in to sound signature?

 

[s_sachin]

this is a very useful topic for me as well.. thanks to OP

i have recently acquired the NAD 2400 power amp and currently using the nad 325 integrated as preamp to drive psb b6 bookshelfs with good results. the power amp aimed at a future upgrade to maybe T6 towers.

I may have to change my AVR in my seperate 5.1 system in future as current it does not support HD audio. So should i get an AVR like denon 1912 to serve as pre as well or invest in a pre-amp.

Also how much of the sound signature is due to sound card/dac and how much due to pre-amp , if that makes sense. Obviously there should not be any impact to sound quality.

Any thoughts ?

 

[manoj.p]

The sound signature and quality depends a lot upon the components actually used in the device, any specific processing and its implementation. Many theorists suggest that for the same price, stereo integrated amp will be better than an AVR because, its simply needs very few components and manufacturer's are able to use quality components. Again, this is in theory only because the AVR's are made by big manufacturers and they are able to source components very cheaply. I mean, we are talking about electronic components like chips, IC's, resistors, transistor, capacitors etc and they are available in cents to manufacturers. So, have a stereo amp is not necessarily better from components build quality alone.

Now, where the sound signature does change a lot is in the processing. The stereo preamp pretty much does not do anything else beyond tone controls and volume controls. Those don't even do any crossovers/bass management. The AVR's have the bass management and almost all have automatic setup with included mic and room eq correction. It helps in setting speaker levels, distance, phase, crossover and then do the room correction.These features are very helpful, if you want to use a subwoofer or if your room is not perfect/symmetrical or if your speaker setup is not symmetrical/optimal.

For me, the room correction, bass management are very important features because it allows you to tweak the sound to your liking. You can decide what's more important to you and then choose which one you want.

 

[manoj.p]

I may have to change my AVR in my seperate 5.1 system in future as current it does not support HD audio. So should i get an AVR like denon 1912 to serve as pre as well or invest in a pre-amp.

The 1912 does not have pre-outs, so you can't use it as a preamp. The lowest Denon that has preout is 3311/3312.

On the other hand, Yamaha starts preouts from RXV671/RXA710 receivers.

Also how much of the sound signature is due to sound card/dac and how much due to pre-amp , if that makes sense. Obviously there should not be any impact to sound quality.

Any thoughts ?

The dac used to play a bigger role in sound signature before but almost all the modern DAC's are similar. What affects more is there implementation, again but subtle difference only. The audio processing done in the preamp has a very big impact on what you hear. The AVR can do the processing and if you don't like it, then you can turn it off by going to pure or direct modes.

 

[Zwischen]

Now, where the sound signature does change a lot is in the processing. The stereo preamp pretty much does not do anything else beyond tone controls and volume controls.

Stereo integrated amps when used as Preamp or even a standalone Preamp changes the sound the signature
from what i have read from Fm's posts,
If i take a neutral power amp like Rotel / Emotiva etc and pair it with a NAD integrated and use the NAD as a preamp. the sound signature would be NAD. since the preamp section is where the coloring happens.

So assume I have a Emotiva Power Amp (Neutral) and connect it to a Marantz PM 6004 , the sound signature would be Marantz
if I use the power amp with a AVR Marantz SR5005 and use the AVR purely as a Preamp. again the sound signature would be Marantz.

However my question is using a AVR as a preamp does it affect 2 channel SQ in anyway.
Considering I can buy either the PM6004 or the SR5005 for almost the same cost and since both are doing the same job of being a preamplifier and not else . (in both cases no bass management or any other equalisation would be used)

Which would sound better the Stereo integrated amp used as a 2 channel stereo Preamplifier or AVR used as a 2 channel stereo Preamplifier

 

[manoj.p]

Stereo integrated amps when used as Preamp or even a standalone Preamp changes the sound the signature
from what i have read from Fm's posts,
If i take a neutral power amp like Rotel / Emotiva etc and pair it with a NAD integrated and use the NAD as a preamp. the sound signature would be NAD. since the preamp section is where the coloring happens.

So assume I have a Emotiva Power Amp (Neutral) and connect it to a Marantz PM 6004 , the sound signature would be Marantz
if I use the power amp with a AVR Marantz SR5005 and use the AVR purely as a Preamp. again the sound signature would be Marantz.

Yes, because whatever processing is happening at preamp stage. AVR as well will be no different if you use any of its process.

However my question is using a AVR as a preamp does it affect 2 channel SQ in anyway.

Yes, the AVR will affect the 2 channel sq if you use its processing. If you dont want to use that, then AVR's do have a Pure/Direct mode which bypasses all the processing.

Considering I can buy either the PM6004 or the SR5005 for almost the same cost and since both are doing the same job of being a preamplifier and not else . (in both cases no bass management or any other equalisation would be used)

Which would sound better the Stereo integrated amp used as a 2 channel stereo Preamplifier or AVR used as a 2 channel stereo Preamplifier

In my opinion, there would not be much change or any change at all, but there will always be different opinions. The only way to know is by comparing those in an audition. Remember to run the SR5005 in Pure/Direct mode and without to compare.