Subwoofer pair under 5L

[SuyashMoorpana]

How to blend a subwoofer with speakers?
What's the subwoofer crawl?

I received this from JL audio. Easy and a very well explained step by step guide.

 

[insane79]

Hi everyone,
I’ve been a lurker on the forum for quite a few months now and I’ve learned much from all of you. It’s really great to be a part of the community!

I’m running a stereo system with the following setup -
Streamer + PreAmp - NAD M66
Power Amplifier - NAD M23
Speakers - B&W PM1s

I want to buy a pair of subwoofers which I plan to integrate using DLBC. I’ve currently shortlisted the REL T9x, the KEF KC92 and perhaps the REL S510 (if I can get 2).

I primarily use the system to listen to music. I do use it to watch TV but it’s not often. My room is about 20 feet x 15 feet x 12 feet (ceiling), and it’s a bedroom with all the typical furnishings - bed, cupboards, desk and side tables.

I’ve tried using a PSB sub before, but I had to return it because of the terrible rattling in my room’s false ceiling. I’m going to try and reduce it with foam tape on the ceiling light fixtures and with the SVS sound path isolation system.

I must add that I used a B&W ASW10CM subwoofer for many years without the rattling being particularly bad (it was low enough to be ignored). It used to sit under my TV cabinet on a wooden floor.

But when I got the PSB and moved it to the side of the cabinet (on marble flooring), the rattling was so bad that I returned the sub. Now, one year later, I’ve got the itch again and I wanted to ask if anyone here’s found a solution.

Have any of you tried these subwoofers? Have you faced similar problems with your false ceilings? What would you do?

Do consider the B&W DB subs, they are under rated but are excellent subs.
I had the S/510 for few years, lovely sub but then got the B&W DB3D & have zero regrets.
I got the 800 series stand mounts & pairing the sub was super easy with the DB App on the phone.
Thought the app you can choose your B&W speaker & the bass transition is seamless, as good or better then Rel which requires alot of work & time to do it seamless.

Cheers..

 

[raghavtib]

As you said "I primarily use the system to listen to music. I do use it to watch TV but it’s not often." this is exactly how I use mine too.
I am using a JL Audio E110 (Not anywhere close to the level of subs you are planning to buy) but have never been disappointed by its speed and bass authority.
With your room size I feel something like a Rythmik E15HP2 as suggested by @DB1989 or JL Audio Fathom F112v2 or a F113v2 (Same high level inputs as REL) would be a better solution. They will pressurise your room more effortlessly.

RELs of course are unbeatable RELs but more focused on tonality than the slam which you will never miss with JL/Rythmik.

I’ve been looking at the JL audio e110 (a pair of them). The f112 and f113 are too expensive to buy in pairs and two 15 inch subwoofers would be too much.

I won’t be using the high level inputs, I will be using the .lfe inputs (either balanced or unbalanced) for the Dirac Live Bass Control benefits.

Why do you say that RELs are unbeatable? I wouldn’t say that I’m looking for the slam in particular from a subwoofer, more like something that adds to my speakers’ sound and frees them from the low frequencies.

The B&W PM1s which I’m using, I’ve had them since 2015 and I still love listening to them after all these years. They sound even better with the NAD amplification, but I can’t drive them beyond 25W without a HPF because the speaker’s 5inch woofer can’t handle low frequencies beyond this point.

I’m buying the subwoofers to free the PM1s from this struggle and I would want them to integrate as neatly as possible.

 

[oldmonk]

As you said "I primarily use the system to listen to music. I do use it to watch TV but it’s not often." this is exactly how I use mine too.
I am using a JL Audio E110 (Not anywhere close to the level of subs you are planning to buy) but have never been disappointed by its speed and bass authority.
With your room size I feel something like a Rythmik E15HP2 as suggested by @DB1989 or JL Audio Fathom F112v2 or a F113v2 (Same high level inputs as REL) would be a better solution. They will pressurise your room more effortlessly.

RELs of course are unbeatable RELs but more focused on tonality than the slam which you will never miss with JL/Rythmik.

Am curious to know if on the E110 there is a method to filter out such that only the frequencies above the set cross over frequency go to the main speakers and anything at ot below the xover freq goes to the subwoofer ??

 

[hifimaddy]

I have RELs, Genelec & SVS.

If you want EASY integration - REL.
If you want pure pressure - SVS.
Genelecs are my favourite - but in this conversation pointless.

Both REL & SVS sound brilliant & disappear once well integrated, but it is way easier to get RELs to sound right.

I love playing games with SVS - the feel of a stadium in sports game is very real cause you can kind of feel the bass all the time. RELs not so much, they make the music - very easy to listen to and things like Tabla/drums sound closer to real. You only realise what is missing when you shut your REL. I love it. I am running even my HT primarily with an REL now. Sometimes though I put the SVS on - specially for games with massive Ambient sounds - like FIFA.

THAT is NOT to say one is better - they are different flavours and I like both.

I found your explanation really helpful. I’m not into gaming, and while I might occasionally use the setup for movies, I don’t want anything too punchy or overwhelming for my room. My main goal is to have something accurate, natural, and engaging for music listening and also a minimal footprint.

I had already been leaning toward REL, and your suggestion reinforced that—it does seem like the ideal choice for my needs. That said, the SVS Micro is appealing because of its compact size and minimal footprint, which is why I’m still considering it.

I think the best next step is to audition them myself. I may also try listening to KEF options before making a final decision.

 

[square_wave]

Are you trying to make sure your ceiling does not rattle while also making sure you get smooth bass without nulls and peaks ? W.R.T the rattle, best thing would be to get some advice from a professional who is into such designs.

If you don't want to fix that but still want smooth punchy bass for music while minimising rattle, I’d lean toward a sealed, force-cancelling design like the KEF KC92. It has dual opposed drivers less vibration into the room. Tighter, more controlled bass for music. The RELs, SVS etc will stir up quite a bit of room energy.

The DLBC will help integrate everything. Maybe get a demo first ?

 

[SuyashMoorpana]

I’ve been looking at the JL audio e110 (a pair of them). The f112 and f113 are too expensive to buy in pairs and two 15 inch subwoofers would be too much.

I won’t be using the high level inputs, I will be using the .lfe inputs (either balanced or unbalanced) for the Dirac Live Bass Control benefits.

Why do you say that RELs are unbeatable? I wouldn’t say that I’m looking for the slam in particular from a subwoofer, more like something that adds to my speakers’ sound and frees them from the low frequencies.

The B&W PM1s which I’m using, I’ve had them since 2015 and I still love listening to them after all these years. They sound even better with the NAD amplification, but I can’t drive them beyond 25W without a HPF because the speaker’s 5inch woofer can’t handle low frequencies beyond this point.

I’m buying the subwoofers to free the PM1s from this struggle and I would want them to integrate as neatly as possible.

Consider getting a pair of JL Audio E112 pair in that case.
Also, it has both in and out ports at the back which will help you connect another sub directly to the one where main input goes and act as a mirror.

JL audio extends a bit lower compared to the T7/T9 and is very very powerful, outperforming SUBs in 10 inches league in the same price range.
E112 of course takes it a step further and as I said I have never felt the lack of speed even tho I listen to music 90-95% of the times on my system.

The bass on this thing is such a beautiful thing to listen to. Just gives you another level of satisfaction. You will be amazed to hear how well it pressurises the room being such a compact unit. 0 boomyness just deep clean controlled tight bass.

As I said JLs are a better solution for your room size keep the E112s as serious contenders when you boil it all down.

 

[SuyashMoorpana]

Am curious to know if on the E110 there is a method to filter out such that only the frequencies above the set cross over frequency go to the main speakers and anything at ot below the xover freq goes to the subwoofer ??

Yes, JL audio had advised me to connect my system in the following way initially.

Since you're using a streamer before your integrated amp, this gives you the opportunity to utilize the E-Sub's built-in crossover. This will allow you to separate bass frequencies from the rest of the audio. You would connect the output of the streamer into the E-Sub input. Then connect the output of the E-Sub to the input of your integrated amp. The E-Sub's crossover will then send only frequencies above the cutoff point to your main speakers. This will reduce distortion and improve clarity in your Focals, while allowing the E-Sub to handle bass duties exclusively. (Image below)

It does have a built in crossover to send only the frequencies you'd like your speakers to handle/play.

 

[DB1989]

Consider getting a pair of JL Audio E112 pair in that case.
Also, it has both in and out ports at the back which will help you connect another sub directly to the one where main input goes and act as a mirror.

JL audio extends a bit lower compared to the T7/T9 and is very very powerful, outperforming SUBs in 10 inches league in the same price range.
E112 of course takes it a step further and as I said I have never felt the lack of speed even tho I listen to music 90-95% of the times on my system.

The bass on this thing is such a beautiful thing to listen to. Just gives you another level of satisfaction. You will be amazed to hear how well it pressurises the room being such a compact unit. 0 boomyness just deep clean controlled tight bass.

As I said JLs are a better solution for your room size keep the E112s as serious contenders when you boil it all down.

Your JL E110 outperforms many a 12 inch sub i've heard - none of the REL T series comes close to the output and extension of the JL - not even my dual T9i's. But that would still be understating what a JL sounds like. I found the vehemence with which it delivered both slam and punch to be rather addictive. A JL sub is definitely on my list at some point.

 

[SuyashMoorpana]

Your JL E110 outperforms many a 12 inch sub i've heard - none of the REL T series comes close to the output and extension of the JL - not even my dual T9i's. But that would still be understating what a JL sounds like. I found the vehemence with which it delivered both slam and punch to be rather addictive. A JL sub is definitely on my list at some point.

And as you said "Subs that have such an extension unlock a whole new dimension of music that you can listen to."
E112 wont have an extension upto 8hz but will manage to dig much deeper than the T7/T9.

I can only imagine what two E112s would do, sound literally effortless.

 

[raghavtib]

Are you trying to make sure your ceiling does not rattle while also making sure you get smooth bass without nulls and peaks ? W.R.T the rattle, best thing would be to get some advice from a professional who is into such designs.

If you don't want to fix that but still want smooth punchy bass for music while minimising rattle, I’d lean toward a sealed, force-cancelling design like the KEF KC92. It has dual opposed drivers less vibration into the room. Tighter, more controlled bass for music. The RELs, SVS etc will stir up quite a bit of room energy.

The DLBC will help integrate everything. Maybe get a demo first ?

Getting a demo isn’t possible because of time constraints. I want to get the subwoofer now (in the next couple of weeks) and I’ve got too many work commitments to take time off during the week.

I have reasoned that there are 2 things happening - the gypsum board is reverberating at its resonance frequency and the ceiling lights attached to it are rattling violently. I can address the rattling by changing the ceiling lights and adding foam tape to the contact points of the new ones. Can’t do much about the reverberation because I don’t want to break the ceiling.

I’ve got these SVS feet to isolate the subwoofers from the floor to minimize vibrations to the walls and ceiling. Do you think that’ll be enough?

When I started this thread, I was leaning towards the REL. But by reading stuff online, I think that perhaps the reason they integrate so well, and are “musical” is just that they have lesser lower-end extension than other subs, which excites fewer room modes. For me, this won’t be a problem because both subs will be connected to the NAD M66 using the .lfe input to run DLBC, which should fix (or improve) the room modes.

Last night I saw the release videos for the new 2026 SVS 3000 micro Revolution and the SVS sb3000 Revolution, both of which look very promising and are perhaps better than purchasing an old REL. Unfortunately the micro revolution isn’t shipping in the US until 30th April, so no idea when it’ll be launched in India.

 

[square_wave]

Getting a demo isn’t possible because of time constraints. I want to get the subwoofer now (in the next couple of weeks) and I’ve got too many work commitments to take time off during the week.

I have reasoned that there are 2 things happening - the gypsum board is reverberating at its resonance frequency and the ceiling lights attached to it are rattling violently. I can address the rattling by changing the ceiling lights and adding foam tape to the contact points of the new ones. Can’t do much about the reverberation because I don’t want to break the ceiling.

I’ve got these SVS feet to isolate the subwoofers from the floor to minimize vibrations to the walls and ceiling. Do you think that’ll be enough?

When I started this thread, I was leaning towards the REL. But by reading stuff online, I think that perhaps the reason they integrate so well, and are “musical” is just that they have lesser lower-end extension than other subs, which excites fewer room modes. For me, this won’t be a problem because both subs will be connected to the NAD M66 using the .lfe input to run DLBC, which should fix (or improve) the room modes.

Last night I saw the release videos for the new 2026 SVS 3000 micro Revolution and the SVS sb3000 Revolution, both of which look very promising and are perhaps better than purchasing an old REL. Unfortunately the micro revolution isn’t shipping in the US until 30th April, so no idea when it’ll be launched in India.

Many high end subwoofers sound just as musical as REL but REL’s setup philosophy forces better integration habits. Also their overall design is "music first". Tight, blended, agile and detailed bass rather than "very high output into the low bass region". So, if one has the means and expertise, one can make ANY well designed sub sound just as musical. Bass management itself is such a vast subject. It is just that REL packages it well into a box along with a "setup philosophy" that helps non technical people get better musical results than other subs with minimal effort.

SVS feet helps but I do not know how it what will result in your situation, I use them in my 2 channel home theatre.

Your problem is very specific so it is best to talk to some guy with some installation expertise too to get some advice. Why not talk to someone like @prateekatasniya who is a THX certified guy ? He may be able to give you some pointers. I would just lean towards 2 sealed subs to keep things tight and clean.

 

[prateekatasniya]

Many high end subwoofers sound just as musical as REL but REL’s setup philosophy forces better integration habits. Also their overall design is "music first". Tight, blended, agile and detailed bass rather than "very high output into the low bass region". So, if one has the means and expertise, one can make ANY well designed sub sound just as musical. Bass management itself is such a vast subject. It is just that REL packages it well into a box along with a "setup philosophy" that helps non technical people get better musical results than other subs with minimal effort.

SVS feet helps but I do not know how it what will result in your situation, I use them in my 2 channel home theatre.

Your problem is very specific so it is best to talk to some guy with some installation expertise too to get some advice. Why not talk to someone like @prateekatasniya who is a THX certified guy ? He may be able to give you some pointers. I would just lean towards 2 sealed subs to keep things tight and clean.

Super excited to share with you that I have recently cleared HAA level 1 and 2 .. will clear level 3 in a couple of months.