Suggest me a Split!

[Pernicious]

Hi guys!
Want to buy a new AC.
Have around 325-350 sq feet room. it gets direct sunlight and has a veranda where the external unit will be. Currently I have a 2 ton window installed but it doesnt cool a lot and also sometimes trip (the compressor trips due to the heat in Veranda, so we installed an exhaust fan right adjacent to it and then it's fine but not great)
So, the AC runs around 7-8 hrs a day during summers and around 8 months a year. this is the maximum time and average is a bit below this.

What AC should I go for?
Daikin
Hitachi
O General
Panasonic?

Also, Inverter or 5 star or even below? Money is not an issue.
Lastly, does the inverter do the same cooling as a 3 star or 5 star?

Some price quotes I got for daikin:
1.5 ton: 2 Ton:
2* 29250 37000
3* 31500 40000
5* 39000 47250
Inverter 42000 47750

one weird thing i noticed, theres absolutely no difference between daikin 5 star and inverter.
Also, that 2 ton is actually a 1.8 ton AC 22000 something BTU. daikin guy said thats what all companys call 2 ton these days only og is full 24000 btu.

Is a 2 ton needed for my room? i guess so.

Please suggest the best.

p.s.: the ac want is not urgent, i can buy it after a few months also. So is it recommended to wait till winters for a price drop?

 

[Pernicious]

bump!! please advise.

 

[avidyarthy]

325-350 sq ft room ..... big one ..... what shape is it .... rectangular / square / L-shape ?

If money is not the issue and the room is a longish rectangular / L shaped, then settle for a multi-split ... ie. one outdoor and 2 indoor units. That would effectively cool the entire space, in case required or part cool a portion, both units would have independent controls.

Again, if money is not an issue, look at a 2 TR inverter multisplit or a 2 TR, 5 star standard multisplit AC.

Try setting up the outdoor unit in a shaded area. If not present, provide for a shade yourself, say, a fibre-glass sheet on top of the unit. Keep sides free for good air circulation and heat rejection.

Other than the makes mentioned, look for Mitsubishi ACs too. They used to be marketed by Carrier Aircon.

 

[Pernicious]

Well the room is rectangular not l shaped. Also since it's a bedroom will multi split look decent?

Also, how much does a 2 ton multisplit cost? and this thing is it 2 ton for each independent unit? that would be overkill!!

Also, the external unit will be in a shaded area, it's just that theres a window right parallel to it so direct sunlight will come whatever i do.

 

[Nikhil]

Go for the Daikin. The best part of the Daikins are that they are really quiet. If you haven't used one before you will be surprised how quiet they are. It becomes even more important if you are planning to listen to music in the same room. The Daikins are also extremely power efficient. If they are used a lot then they pay for themselves in a matter of a year or so.

The Inverters are even more efficient and can be used for. Both heating and cooling - basd on the heat exchange principle. It's a little new here but it's very commonly used in the USA. If cost is not an issue go for the Daikins any day.

 

[Pernicious]

I need cooling only machine.

Also, I see daikin has a R22 and R410 inverter. The prices i quoted was for R22, which is relatively cheaper.
All other inverter i googled panasonic/lg are R410...so is the daikin not good? I seriously feel it's charging a premium it doesnt deserve

 

[avidyarthy]

Well the room is rectangular not l shaped. Also since it's a bedroom will multi split look decent?

Also, how much does a 2 ton multisplit cost? and this thing is it 2 ton for each independent unit? that would be overkill!!

Also, the external unit will be in a shaded area, it's just that theres a window right parallel to it so direct sunlight will come whatever i do.

Of course, a multisplit would look great!

Cost, you need to check, obviously, it would be more expensive. No, it would be a 2 TR single unit. The two evaporative (indoor) sections would sense the cooling requirements of the individual indoor units and adjust accordingly.

Read what I have written carefully. You can provide a shade on top of it by putting a fibre-glass sheet to keep the direct 'sun' out. Also, you would be cutting out the rainwater to a large extent.

Why should cost bother you .... you yourself have stated that cost is not an issue!

Daikin, Hitachi, Mitsubishi, OGeneral are hi-end brands.

 

[Nikhil]

I need cooling only machine.

Also, I see daikin has a R22 and R410 inverter. The prices i quoted was for R22, which is relatively cheaper.
All other inverter i googled panasonic/lg are R410...so is the daikin not good? I seriously feel it's charging a premium it doesnt deserve

The R410 has the heat pump feature while the R22 is cooling only. You can't compare LG etc with the Daikin. They are in a completely different category. Daikins are typically over specd to give you enough and more cooling power. You can place your unit about 40ft away from the split unit - with LG etc you can't do this without losing cooling efficiency. If you are thinking of multi units then Daikin again is a great choice - one outdoor unit can drive upto four splits (this is the high end model).

Daikins cost about double the usual models but you will see the difference in your electricity bills. It all depends on how much you use your ACs.

 

[Pernicious]

Of course, a multisplit would look great!

Cost, you need to check, obviously, it would be more expensive. No, it would be a 2 TR single unit. The two evaporative (indoor) sections would sense the cooling requirements of the individual indoor units and adjust accordingly.

Read what I have written carefully. You can provide a shade on top of it by putting a fibre-glass sheet to keep the direct 'sun' out. Also, you would be cutting out the rainwater to a large extent.

Why should cost bother you .... you yourself have stated that cost is not an issue!

Daikin, Hitachi, Mitsubishi, OGeneral are hi-end brands.

Cost certainly is not an issue but upto a range. I have no issues for prices around 50ish. Wanted to have a rough idea about Multi split since if its around 80 or something, I might pass. It's because I think I won't save so much obviously!

@Nikhil,
you said the daikins are over specd but I see that the specs of daikin are lower than others :/
Also, if I don't need the heat feature can I consider the R22 and R410 equivalent?

 

[avidyarthy]

Refrigerant ie. the gas has nothing to do whether it is for cooling or heating purpose. In heating, the direction of gas flow is reversed by means of a 3-way valve, thats all.

Yes, for Kolkata, Mumbai, Chennai one would never require the heating function! Only meant for climate extremes ... like in Delhi.

 

[Nikhil]

@Nikhil,
you said the daikins are over specd but I see that the specs of daikin are lower than others :/
Also, if I don't need the heat feature can I consider the R22 and R410 equivalent?

If you take a Daikin 2 ton you will see that its closer to 2.2 ton. This over spec gives them the ability to place the outdoor unit quite far away from the split in your room. The R22 and R410 are not equivalent. The R410 offers a lot more efficiency but also would cost more. If you're looking at cooling only then go with the R22.

R410 Models :
Cooling only
FTKS 25/35E, FTKS 50/60/71F
Heat Pump
FTXS 25/35E, FTXS 50/60/71F

R22 Models :
FTKE25/35G, FTKD50/60/71F

Look up the website for more information on the links I have given you.

 

[Pernicious]

If you take a Daikin 2 ton you will see that its closer to 2.2 ton. This over spec gives them the ability to place the outdoor unit quite far away from the split in your room. The R22 and R410 are not equivalent. The R410 offers a lot more efficiency but also would cost more. If you're looking at cooling only then go with the R22.

R410 Models :
Cooling only
FTKS 25/35E, FTKS 50/60/71F
Heat Pump
FTXS 25/35E, FTXS 50/60/71F

R22 Models :
FTKE25/35G, FTKD50/60/71F

Look up the website for more information on the links I have given you.

This is the R22 2 ton model daikin guy told me:
FTKD60
This is in fact 1.8 Ton! It's no where over specd, infact a panansonic beats it in every aspect possible!
Check this out and compare with FTKD60 r22
CS-YS24MKYP | Panasonic

EVERY SPECIFICATION this one's better! plus, this is R410 which the daikin guy itself told me is better than r22.

 

[Demon]

@Pernicious

Please take care of two things before you plunge into a particular brand.

Check with your neighbors or friends on the service they receive for a particular brand that you have chosen in your city. This is very very important for you to enjoy the AC for a long time.

Next one is to get an AC that has slightly higher capacity than required to cool the room especially if you are going for an inverter model. I found it out the hard way. Installed a 1.0 ton O'G in my bedroom which is 10X10, but has a west facing wall and an open terrace. The AC was sufficient enough to cool the room, but it will take a longer time to reach the desired temperature, and most of the time the compressor would not trip, so my power bills were also on the higher side. I replaced it with a 1.5 ton unit after some time.

As for the personal experience, I prefer O'General over Daikin. We have an 1.5 ton O'General(more than 5 years old) in my brothers' room which is approximately 150 sq feet and a 1.5ton Daikin inverter in my mom's room which is 100 sq feet (which we recently installed, replacing a 1 ton O'general). After about two weeks of use, I feel that the cooling is more uniform with O'General than Daikin. In fact we had a casual discussion today on which AC in our house is much preferred (we have a 1.5 ton Hitachi, 1ton LG and O'G in other rooms) and O'G came out as the winner. If we can coin a term 'quality of cooling', then O'G should be rated very high here.

The reason I went for Dakin recently(before that it was all O'G in my home) was the bad after sales service i experienced with my O'G units, other than that they had absolutely no issues, in fact the 5 year old O'G unit is silent than the Dakin inverter.

avidyarthy has given some good idea on selection and placement , so check out the options, if possible visit the exclusive or multibrand showrooms, where they have working demo units and check out the models you are looking at, before taking the plunge.

 

[avidyarthy]

^
http://www.compressedairgorilla.com/r410_refrigerant_-_the_real_story.pdf

Read this, it should help ....

R410 in the long run ... yes, in the long run is more advisable. This so, since R22 would be phased out after 2020. This is already 2012 ... and going by experience, the working life of a 'good' AC should be taken as minimum 10 years.

Don't go by the cooling capacity of any AC. You have to select a machine which just about 'meets' the heat load. Yes, getting to know and calculate the heat load is a laborious process which only an expert can accomplish. The shopkeepers / retailers don't know a damn about those.

A place with higher relative humidity would require a higher capacity machine. It has the added burder to dehumidify. In a place like Kolkata ? Chennai or Mumbai you would find a steady stream of water coming out from the evaporative (indoor) unit. This requires more compressor load. But, definitely it does not mean you blindly go for a machine with higher than required capacity.

Say, for a 150 sqft room in Chennai or Kolkata the desired size of a cooling machine is 1.5 TR. The same room in Delhi could use a 1 TR machine because of drier climate ! But, then there are other parameters to look into .... is the room located on the terrace, how much sunlight is coming through there, is there any contruction on top of that room .... etc etc ?

More than after sales service (since people invariably make use of local technicians for machine servicing ... never the manufacturer), you have to gauge the easy and low cost availability of spares.

Inverter machines are definitely worth it, if .... one is NOT extra cautious of the exact cooling requirements and have no issues on the initial higher costs involved. BUT, if anything goes wrong with the Inverter circuit .... then, heaven help you. You might end up paying 50% of the initial cost of the AC to have it replaced.

Hence, if you select the right machine for a particular location then a lot is taken care of automatcally. A simpler machine is what one should settle for ... IMHO .... by experience.

 

[avidyarthy]

Welcome to Toshiba India : Air Conditioners

I don't own it, but, seen it perform. I made a mistake earlier by naming it as Mitsubishi .... in fact, it is Toshiba ... still marketed by Carrier. This is a hi-end equipment.

 

[Pernicious]

Well, Demon, the OG catalog that I have doesn't have inverter models in it :/
Also, the prices of 5 star OG are like say 51-52ish, and ASS is not good you are saying. But I have definitely heard what you wrote, that nothing can beat OG in cooling only.

Anyway, @avidarthy
My room is a pretty large one like I said before. Also, the wall on which the Split will be installed the back of that wall is WEST facing :| direct sunlight during the day

Inverter machines are definitely worth it, if .... one is NOT extra cautious of the exact cooling requirements and have no issues on the initial higher costs involved.

Not extra cautious ? please elaborate. from what I heard inverters maintained a single temperature without much fluctuation so that is indeed better right?

Hence, if you select the right machine for a particular location then a lot is taken care of automatcally. A simpler machine is what one should settle for ... IMHO .... by experience.

So you are saying I should settle for a 4/5 star machine?

 

[avidyarthy]

Please go thru my earlier posts of 2010 ... or 2011 on ACs. Please search in the Forum.
All details pertaining to Inverter operations had been thoroughly discussed.

 

[Demon]

Well, Demon, the OG catalog that I have doesn't have inverter models in it :/
Also, the prices of 5 star OG are like say 51-52ish, and ASS is not good you are saying. But I have definitely heard what you wrote, that nothing can beat OG in cooling only.
QUOTE]

@Pernicious

OG has inverter models in their range, but theirs are only R410A based. It was also listed in their website(Tried to access the website now, but not able to find it) and saw it in person in the showroom.

As for the service, I had the issue here in Chennai, not sure about the state of service there at Kolkatta. As an afterthought, if you find the service by the company personal is not good in the first year, you can avail the services of a good AC service company to maintain the AC. Also if I am not wrong, after a year, only the compressor carries the warranty, for all others you have to shell out the money.

Inverter models don't carry any star rating, not sure why it is thoough.

@avidyarthy

Is it possible to insure the AC??