The DAC, Subwoofer conundrum

[narenvaidee]

I have been enjoying hours and hours of great music through my current minimal setup:

• Cambridge Audio SR10
• GoldenEar AON3
• WiDAC (wifi streaming)
• Apple Music

While this setup is good, I've always felt that the bass is getting rolled off (at least that's what I think it is). So, there are two possibilities:

1. The WiDAC is the weakest link here. It has very low gain, OR because
2. I don't have a dedicated subwoofer

If #1 is true, then I've shortlisted FiiO Q1 Mkii (mostly coz of price. I'll ask for a demo unit to audition from Fiio).
And if #2 is the case, I've shortlisted Mission MS200

I cannot invest on both at this point of time. This is where I'd need your expert advice to make this minimal setup sound even better.

Thanks much!

 

[raghupb]

Wow. That is a nice pic. You have a wonderful sense of framing.
Cheers,
Raghu

 

[shibashis]

Possibly the GoldenEars deserve better amplification than what you are providing at the moment, that could make a big change.
Judging by the picture the positioning could improve a lot as well, at the moment they are very close to one another, is it possible to experiment with different positions? Possibly with stands and give them some room to breath?
Is that a glass screen door on the left?

 

[arunkvivek]

The main problem of Bass roll off is more likely because of speakers coupling with the table. Isolate them using smiley balls, squash balls etc (depending on what your budgets allow to witness better base.
but overall experience is suffering because you have cornered them and they are ignoring you... position them as if they are eyes of your room and you would be able to witness the imaging from them. That's of course if the reality of real estates allows you to. Sub-woofer might not aid much given the way the speakers are positioned currently.
If possible, try to get a pair of stands and they would a world of good before the electronics come in.
There are threaded rod based DIY stands that can be made at fraction of cost. A visit to SP road is all that you need. Please PM me incase you are interested in this experiment. I have a pair of DIY stands which I am yet to repurpose (moved from bookshelves to floorstanders very recently). You can try it and let me know if the stands make a difference.

 

[narenvaidee]

Thank you, @shibashis and @arunkvivek!

Some months ago, I did a small experiment to check some of the factors you had mentioned (did when wife and kids were away - did a lot of A/B testing!).
My observations:

1. Used an old Sony DVD player as the source - that's when I noticed the 'gain' issue. The songs from the CD had more clarity, depth and mid-range punch. I didn't have to crank up the volume to get to listenable levels. With the DAC, I have to increase the volume to 40db to get to a decent listening level.
2. Placed the speakers 8ft apart. Same CD source - Fantastic (relatively) imaging. The speakers disappeared. All I could hear was some nice music without having to tweak the volume or tone controls. I did this experiment when I initially had the doubt that the amp is not able to cope up with the GoldenEars. It wasn't the case. The bass was decent as well -- deeper than what I used to hear from the DAC, but not deep enough (that's when I thought a sub would help). Unfortunately, I live in a rented house and the real-estate doesn't allow me to place the speakers in this 8ft apart position
3. Since the speakers are close to the glass windows, ordered some foam attenuator from aliexpress - that was too much attenuation and I wasn't liking it. So, using the curtains as attenuators for now (don't judge me )

I'm going to face #2 in most of the rented houses. That's why I've been thinking of adding more gain via a better DAC or improve the omni-directional lows with a good sub.

Honestly, I didn't expect the CA-GoldenEar paring will be this good. I'm loving it - luscious mids, non-fatiguing highs and good lows - could be better if 'm able to address the aforementioned gripes.

@arunkvivek - I'll message you on the stands. Thanks buddy!

 

[narenvaidee]

Something strange to report. I just changed the DAC-to-amplifier interconnect from Rs 200 bandridge to ugreen (~1100/-). Boy, that was some real good difference in sound. The bass is now real good - did A/B testing with the old rca vs the ugreen one to make sure that I don’t fool myself with the placebo effect.

So much for believing that there won’t be a day and night difference between cheaper rca interconnects and the so called expensive audiophile ones. I wouldn’t call ugreen audiophile grade, but the difference is big!

Welll, I don’t have to invest on a new DAC or a subwoofer for now.

 

[shibashis]

Something strange to report. I just changed the DAC-to-amplifier interconnect from Rs 200 bandridge to ugreen (~1100/-). Boy, that was some real good difference in sound. The bass is now real good - did A/B testing with the old rca vs the ugreen one to make sure that I don’t fool myself with the placebo effect.

So much for believing that there won’t be a day and night difference between cheaper rca interconnects and the so called expensive audiophile ones. I wouldn’t call ugreen audiophile grade, but the difference is big!

Welll, I don’t have to invest on a new DAC or a subwoofer for now.

Well that was quite educational, was not it?
The difference in sound quality going from 200 to 1100 is quite massive, it will be quite a bit more if you move up the chain and say go to something priced at 2500. Very subjective though the whole situation is, with the right interconnect for your gear there can be greater improvements, but as you move up in price point the improvement quotient will decrease.

 

[narenvaidee]

Moving from 1100 to even 10k INR isn’t going to make a huge difference. The point here is the 200 INR cable would have been soooo bad that a slightly higher priced cable is much more revealing. The ugreen in the US is just $9. So essentially it’s around 600/- May be the cable is relatively well made.

 

[raghupb]

Low priced cables may not have good quality conductors and/or terminations.
Copper clad aluminum, gauge etc will contribute to SQ and signal loss too.
While there is no price point when things get better, it is good to invest in decent quality cables without breaking the bank.
Cheers,
Raghu