The new EPOS Encore 50 loudspeaker

[thevortex]

Folks - this has set my pulse racing.

The Epos Acoustics New Encore 50 Floorstanding Loudspeaker

How does it 'sound' to the others?

 

[thevortex]

Hmm...and I thought this was revolutionary! Nobody thinks so?

 

[iaudio]

Hmm...and I thought this was revolutionary! Nobody thinks so?

thevortex, Honestly, I dont know enough to judge this as revolutionary or evolutionary or the typical marketing mumbo jumbo!
But here s something I found as interesting:
"Epos, will offer a custom DAC with programmable digital crossover to suit any make of amplification system. In short, it has unparalleled flexibility."

 

[psychotropic]

Like iaudio said i usually have trouble telling the true technical achievements from the marketing bumph (since i am comletely a non-technical person), so vortex could you tell us what are the revolutionary aspects of the Encore 50?

 

[thevortex]

Of course we can only tell if it is truly revolutionary after listening to it. But just going by the spec sheet, I thought it had some truly unique features - given my limited knowledge of speakers and Hifi.

The DAC integration that iaudio spoke of is interesting, as is the separated volumes for each of the drivers. Finally the really, really interesting aspect is that you can adjust the crossover yourself thereby balancing your mids, bass or treble as per your and/or your listening room's needs.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this appears to be a first as far as speakers are concerned. Again, my knowledge in these matters is extremely limited. Going by that I thought these were amazing features. Maybe some of the experts and the learned can chip in and tell us more about this?

 

[suri]

Of course we can only tell if it is truly revolutionary after listening to it. But just going by the spec sheet, I thought it had some truly unique features - given my limited knowledge of speakers and Hifi.

The DAC integration that iaudio spoke of is interesting, as is the separated volumes for each of the drivers. Finally the really, really interesting aspect is that you can adjust the crossover yourself thereby balancing your mids, bass or treble as per your and/or your listening room's needs.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this appears to be a first as far as speakers are concerned. Again, my knowledge in these matters is extremely limited. Going by that I thought these were amazing features. Maybe some of the experts and the learned can chip in and tell us more about this?

hi thevortex,

look closely at this picture of a technics loudspeaker from 1984 - it has user-adjustable controls for the midrange and treble, with bass set to max.




i would think that a system should be played flat with the shortest signal path from source/amplification to loudspeaker - if the signal has to traverse yet another contact/circuit on it's way to the voice coil, it cannot be a good thing.

 

[thevortex]

Thanks Suri. I knew there had to be some caveat with my line of thinking. Forgive me if I continue to blunder. But is an adjustable crossover as mentioned in the EPOS case the same as the tonal controls mentioned here? I did not understand that to be the case.

 

[suri]

hi thevortex,

not sure about the implementation in the technics loudspeaker, but sure that it cannot be as good as the one in the epos.

in the design of loudspeakers, cross-overs are considered a necessary evil, and certainly the one most important attribute of a well-designed loudspeaker. Allowing complications (in the form of user-adjustable attenuation, however sophisticated that might be) in the cross-over may not be such a good thing, and may have been implemented to satisfy a larger section of the buying public than otherwise possible ( eg., a person might want solid punch (bass) at low volume with rolled off highs, and the epos will do it for that person, but then, the loudspeaker is changing the fabric of the music, and the way the composer wanted the listener to experience his/her creation is lost).

that said, this epos loudspeaker could capture the minds of the public and become a runaway best-seller!

 

[panditji]

Sorry for my ignorance, but do you mean a separate stereo amplier for the bass, treble and midrange each???????

 

[thevortex]

hi thevortex,

not sure about the implementation in the technics loudspeaker, but sure that it cannot be as good as the one in the epos.

in the design of loudspeakers, cross-overs are considered a necessary evil, and certainly the one most important attribute of a well-designed loudspeaker. Allowing complications (in the form of user-adjustable attenuation, however sophisticated that might be) in the cross-over may not be such a good thing, and may have been implemented to satisfy a larger section of the buying public than otherwise possible ( eg., a person might want solid punch (bass) at low volume with rolled off highs, and the epos will do it for that person, but then, the loudspeaker is changing the fabric of the music, and the way the composer wanted the listener to experience his/her creation is lost).

that said, this epos loudspeaker could capture the minds of the public and become a runaway best-seller!

Correct me if I am wrong, but the crossover in this EPOS is again simple as has been the company's way for long.

I understand all about the adjustments you are talking about. I am just not sure that this crossover adjustment that is being talked about in the link is the same as the tonal controls you are talking about. Do I make sense by any chance?

I dont think they are talking about tonal controls. For that matter I abhor tonal controls and dont use them in any case. Again feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

The new Encore 50 from Epos is a joint effort of Dave Berriman & Phil Knight (the main Speaker engineering Team at Epos) along with inputs from Mike Creek, the electronics man of the consortium, Epos-Creek.

It promises quite a few radical flexibilities that are most sought for the average domestic installation in fine-tuning the entire system for a balanced sonic spectrum in its immediate environment.

However, the aspect of having a 'digital active crossover' is encouraging as it would be quite noise & loss free, allowing the entire amplification path to freely amplify the signals independently. Nevertheless, this would be prone to a costly affair with 3 separate stereo amps driving the speaker or 6 monoblocks.

Its still too early to forecast its future at present and only time will tell that story as more unfolds IMHO!

There is one thing (well one other thing) that confounds me. Is this an active or a passive speaker? I presume passive. But then what is the meaning of a 'digital active crossover'?

Initial price estimates peg it around the $8000 mark!

 

[thevortex]

Yes, indeed! that speaker is a 3-way, so a ch each for Bass, Mid & Treble.

Audio_engr - you are talking about tri-amping right? If I am not wrong that is an optional feature and not that it is a necessity to use 3 amps with the speaker. A similar feature is also present in their previous flagship speaker - the M22i, I believe.

 

[suri]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the crossover in this EPOS is again simple as has been the company's way for long.

I understand all about the adjustments you are talking about. I am just not sure that this crossover adjustment that is being talked about in the link is the same as the tonal controls you are talking about. Do I make sense by any chance?

I dont think they are talking about tonal controls. For that matter I abhor tonal controls and dont use them in any case. Again feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

hi thevortex,
i do not know how tonal controls work (like the one seen on the technics speaker) and i do not know how control by a tapped auto-transformer works- so, while i understand that you are saying that tonal controls (technics) are inferior and not to be used, my thick brain can only guess that on an $8000 speaker, the control implementation(epos) must be very sophisticated and well thought out to introduce the least bit of complexity in the epos 50 crossover.

however, for any control (attenuation or augmentation) there has to be a (mechanical) switch and a contact through which the signal must pass - and if there are fifteen 1.5 db steps then there must be a rotary switch that allows this arrangement - and introduces complication in an otherwise simple (less component) network because the signal has to (perforce) traverse this contact - and contact will degrade over a period (say, five years)

if this (passive network) is bypassed altogether (as the epos allows) and the outboard digital crossover/ DACs supply amplifiers which directly supply the three drivers without any extra contacts in between- sounds like a much better option.

it is just that i believe that between the power amplifier and the voice coil of the driven transducer, there should be a minimum number of contacts (bridges) that the signal must cross (preferably none, so place each amplifier near the transducer and hard wire the output of the amplifier to the transducer terminals, while carrying out all required adjustments on the (behringer?) digital crossover further upstream.

regds

 

[thevortex]

Ah, thanks Suri and audio_engr for those informative posts.

If this speaker absolutely requires three amps, well...all I can say is EPOS is brave.

 

[thevortex]

Well - people like ATC have followed this path for years & have done well. Only difference is that ATC actually package the whole thing for you so that all you need is a source & preamp, and then voila!! If you have a cup of tea/coffee or a mug of beer in your hand, believe me, you'll drop it when the dynamic slam comes forth out of the SCM-50 or 100 active models.

Well...the better half may make me clean the broken cup as well, in that case. I better do without the ATC or the EPOS Encore then .

 

[suri]

Well...the better half may make me clean the broken cup as well, in that case. I better do without the ATC or the EPOS Encore then .

Hi thevortex,

hehehe

you could buy the epos and use it in many ways-

with the passive cross-over network when you want to please your life-partner

with the active cross-over, and triamped, when you want to irritate your life partner ( as when she woke you up too early)

see, the main use, perhaps, will be when a person's marriage is seven years old, and the fighting has increased in treble and amplitude, and the couple is sitting on the fence between freedom and slavery - then the epos with active crossover and six amps will easily settle the matter!!! (not the least because you have spent such a horrendous amount on loudspeaker when you could have bought her a diamond set)

hehehe, at that point of time i did not have any loudspeaker at all (married 26 years now):lol: - and the chances of life-partner asking for legal separation due to active epos fade progressively after seven years have passed and become nil after 10 years (because wifey suddenly realises that you are the least of the evils!!)

regds

 

[thevortex]

Enjoyed that post, Suri. Well, mine is 8 years and counting and fat chance really of us leaving each other, however much each of us is a nuisance to the other! At least that is the belief I hold in principle.

I dont think I will be able to afford the the Encore 50 anytime soon though. So, no worries whatsoever.

 

[square_wave]

Enjoyed that post, Suri. Well, mine is 8 years and counting and fat chance really of us leaving each other, however much each of us is a nuisance to the other! At least that is the belief I hold in principle.

I dont think I will be able to afford the the Encore 50 anytime soon though. So, no worries whatsoever.

I am toying with the following idea for my next upgrade.

A crossover less loudspeaker with an outboard active crossover and two stereo vertically or horizontally bi - amping them.

 

[longshanks]

If you have a cup of tea/coffee or a mug of beer in your hand, believe me, you'll drop it when the dynamic slam comes forth out of the SCM-50 or 100 active models.

Very True!!

 

[thevortex]

I am toying with the following idea for my next upgrade.

A crossover less loudspeaker with an outboard active crossover and two stereo vertically or horizontally bi - amping them.

Would that be a DIY effort?

 

[square_wave]

Would that be a DIY effort?

It is still early stages.
Not really decided if really want to do this. It involves two high quality and identical power amps. Very expensive proposition.

What I currently use is a hi-end DIY effort with scan speak drivers. If I go ahead with this, It will be DIY but with a lot help from a DIY guru.