The Vintage Turntable Ambassador !

[mpw]

Lovely thread.
@mpw , what is your take on the sound quality ?

dont know how to answer this question

SQ depends on more than 1 element in the chain and not the L75 alone.

Typically the idlers have a sound that had a nice but relentless drive thru the music

In that respect this is different from the Technics SL1210 i once had or the belt drives i once had.

Once upon a time i used to love my SL23 - big mistake selling it - and i liked the Technics SL1210 for some things it did but i guess the Lenco L75 is different to these 2 turntables mentioned.

I played some bollywood music too and i like it.

My rig has the Naim SN2 + Merlin TSM speakers - which not many have heard of..

But this is a labour of love so i may be biased here...

regards

 

[square_wave]

dont know how to answer this question

SQ depends on more than 1 element in the chain and not the L75 alone.

Typically the idlers have a sound that had a nice but relentless drive thru the music

In that respect this is different from the Technics SL1210 i once had or the belt drives i once had.

Once upon a time i used to love my SL23 - big mistake selling it - and i liked the Technics SL1210 for some things it did but i guess the Lenco L75 is different to these 2 turntables mentioned.

I played some bollywood music too and i like it.

My rig has the Naim SN2 + Merlin TSM speakers - which not many have heard of..

But this is a labour of love so i may be biased here...

regards

I think I will rephrase the question. Usually when people refurbish or rebuild vintage turntables, there are some goals. Most of the time the goal is to surpass sound quality that is possible with new turntables at similar outlay. You may even have a certain " sound " in mind. From that context, I wanted to know what you think about the results.

I am very familiar with the merlins, btw.

 

[mpw]

I will try to answer..

a. I realised i regretted selling my SL23 ( my biggest regret in my audiophile journey ) after i got into the SL1210 and 2 more vintage turntables.

With the SL23 - I was Happy - if you know what i mean - very happy.

The quest for upgrade had cost me this happiness..

b. An an engineer, i realize the concept of a turntable very well and should be easy to implement and always mentally objected to the high prices of so called modern turntables.

c. I had heard the L75 only twice ( maybe each time for 20 mins ) before i decided for this.

I liked the build possibilities on the LH website.

Indeed - my turntable is built like a Tank with 5 inch thick plinth made of Birch ply.

d. I liked the customization possibilities too..

I assessed that i myself do not have the time to do all this but my environment and friends and contacts in Mumbai - i thought strongly i could pull thru..

If you see the pics closely there is names of 4 persons who have helped me and thats my way of saying thank you.

e. besides i could keep the costs in control if i found a working L75 on ebay

I had no sound related goals as such - only reliability goals. I wanted the TT to be free from glitches for a long time and the simple L75 mechanism is good in that regard i guess.

( By the way i have another spare L75 - which i may build later )

f.

I had 2 big setbacks in this build - My Linn tonearm and my Rega RB330 tonearm failed me. The Rega RB330 will be replaced free of cost by Rega RB330 due to a mfg defect.

You will find my build thread on LH if you wish to read more.

The present origin Live tonearm is a loaner.

I will switch to the RB330 after a few months - i need someone to carry that from USA to here so have to wait.

It took 18 months in all i think.

Managing time was a big issue and making the plinth and designing the tonearm drop in point and working those out was real fun.

As i said - i will be biased in observations regarding the sound.

I like it but whenever someone else comes and listens to it i will ask him to post here.

For me - i am satisfied and thats all that counts i suppose.

I hope this answers.

regards

 

[square_wave]

I will try to answer..

a. I realised i regretted selling my SL23 ( my biggest regret in my audiophile journey ) after i got into the SL1210 and 2 more vintage turntables.

With the SL23 - I was Happy - if you know what i mean - very happy.

The quest for upgrade had cost me this happiness..

b. An an engineer, i realize the concept of a turntable very well and should be easy to implement and always mentally objected to the high prices of so called modern turntables.

c. I had heard the L75 only twice ( maybe each time for 20 mins ) before i decided for this.

I liked the build possibilities on the LH website.

Indeed - my turntable is built like a Tank with 5 inch thick plinth made of Birch ply.

d. I liked the customization possibilities too..

I assessed that i myself do not have the time to do all this but my environment and friends and contacts in Mumbai - i thought strongly i could pull thru..

If you see the pics closely there is names of 4 persons who have helped me and thats my way of saying thank you.

e. besides i could keep the costs in control if i found a working L75 on ebay

I had no sound related goals as such - only reliability goals. I wanted the TT to be free from glitches for a long time and the simple L75 mechanism is good in that regard i guess.

( By the way i have another spare L75 - which i may build later )

f.

I had 2 big setbacks in this build - My Linn tonearm and my Rega RB330 tonearm failed me. The Rega RB330 will be replaced free of cost by Rega RB330 due to a mfg defect.

You will find my build thread on LH if you wish to read more.

The present origin Live tonearm is a loaner.

I will switch to the RB330 after a few months - i need someone to carry that from USA to here so have to wait.

It took 18 months in all i think.

Managing time was a big issue and making the plinth and designing the tonearm drop in point and working those out was real fun.

As i said - i will be biased in observations regarding the sound.

I like it but whenever someone else comes and listens to it i will ask him to post here.

For me - i am satisfied and thats all that counts i suppose.

I hope this answers.

regards

Thanks MPW. Much appreciated.

 

[kuruvilajacob]

I feel happy that I played a small role in mpw's entry into the vinyl world by selling him the Technics SL-23 some years ago. Technics made very few belt drives and they were beautifully made. I still have a SL-20 belt drive though I don't use it much these days.

 

[newlash09]

Wow...mpw...what a lovely read this thread has been. I was never into vinyl all these years. But got a itch now...All over my body and not just in the head.

Your lovely build thread is very inspiring indeed. Thanks for sharing it. Glad you nailed it in the end...cheers

 

[jls001]

I think I will rephrase the question. Usually when people refurbish or rebuild vintage turntables, there are some goals. Most of the time the goal is to surpass sound quality that is possible with new turntables at similar outlay. You may even have a certain " sound " in mind. From that context, I wanted to know what you think about the results.

I am very familiar with the merlins, btw.

A belated attempt to answer square_wave's question:
There are definitely sonic goals in rebuilding vintage idlers. They are known to have lots of drive that propels the music ever forward. That's because they operate by brute force. Their (vintage idler TTs) motors are typically AC synchronous motors, rated at anything from 15W to 20W. They have lots of torque, and that is a blessing as well as a bit of problem. Vintage TTs were typically housed in box type plinths. The box plinths became resonating chambers for the vibration induced by the powerful motors on the top plate which eventually gets conveyed to the plinth. So when these TTs were in production, they were not rated too highly from measurements perspective. Jean Nantais, the gentleman from Canada who brought about the renaissance of Lencos recognised that Lencos needed mass loading to drain away the vibrations from the motor. Hence the heavy and massive plinths so popular with Lencos.

Sonically, they produce a lively and dynamic sound, with lots of sense of drive. Bass can be thunderous with the right electronics and speakers. The one area where they may not measure up to the better modern belt drives is in digging out finer nuances. Their sound signature is very akin to other idler drives like the Garrard 301 or 401 but not similar to a hybrid like the Thorens TD124 (which has a more subdued signature).

PS: a good belt drive TT like the legendary Linn Sondek or even lesser TTs like the Thorens TD 160, 150, 125, etc can also have a very dynamic drive, provided one tunes the suspension well.

PS2: one can lavish good arm and cartridge on as Lenco rebuild project. For example, the Rega RB330 arm that mpw has bought is by no means cheap. The loaner Origin Live Silver Mark III arm in use right now costs much more than the RB330. So "outlay" can be modest to fairly high.

 

[mpw]

A belated attempt to answer square_wave's question:
There are definitely sonic goals in rebuilding vintage idlers. They are known to have lots of drive that propels the music ever forward. That's because they operate by brute force. Their (vintage idler TTs) motors are typically AC synchronous motors, rated at anything from 15W to 20W. They have lots of torque, and that is a blessing as well as a bit of problem. Vintage TTs were typically housed in box type plinths. The box plinths became resonating chambers for the vibration induced by the powerful motors on the top plate which eventually gets conveyed to the plinth. So when these TTs were in production, they were not rated too highly from measurements perspective. Jean Nantais, the gentleman from Canada who brought about the renaissance of Lencos recognised that Lencos needed mass loading to drain away the vibrations from the motor. Hence the heavy and massive plinths so popular with Lencos.

Sonically, they produce a lively and dynamic sound, with lots of sense of drive. Bass can be thunderous with the right electronics and speakers. The one area where they may not measure up to the better modern belt drives is in digging out finer nuances. Their sound signature is very akin to other idler drives like the Garrard 301 or 401 but not similar to a hybrid like the Thorens TD124 (which has a more subdued signature).

PS: a good belt drive TT like the legendary Linn Sondek or even lesser TTs like the Thorens TD 160, 150, 125, etc can also have a very dynamic drive, provided one tunes the suspension well.

PS2: one can lavish good arm and cartridge on as Lenco rebuild project. For example, the Rega RB330 arm that mpw has bought is by no means cheap. The loaner Origin Live Silver Mark III arm in use right now costs much more than the RB330. So "outlay" can be modest to fairly high.

Thanks Jls..

appreciate the reply... summed up quite well.

regards

 

[mpw]

Wow...mpw...what a lovely read this thread has been. I was never into vinyl all these years. But got a itch now...All over my body and not just in the head.

Your lovely build thread is very inspiring indeed. Thanks for sharing it. Glad you nailed it in the end...cheers

so many "likes" in 1 day is like having 4 seasons in 1 day..

might catch a cold

i was sneezing yesterday and now i understand the connection - each time you "liked" i sneezed..

just kidding..

yes - it took a long time coming and friends helped a lot and i guess my self belief that i could be done despite the setbacks i had also played a role.

It was easy to give up.

Money and time dont come easy for anybody...so i am thankful in many ways.

Jls has summed up very well..he is a skilled audio hand.

When the RB330 comes back - it will need to be installed again and that should not take much time in theory..

will cross the bridge when we come to it..

best regards
mpw

 

[mpw]

I feel happy that I played a small role in mpw's entry into the vinyl world by selling him the Technics SL-23 some years ago. Technics made very few belt drives and they were beautifully made. I still have a SL-20 belt drive though I don't use it much these days.

the SL-23 was something nice - for me IMO

thank you.

 

[square_wave]

A belated attempt to answer square_wave's question:
There are definitely sonic goals in rebuilding vintage idlers. They are known to have lots of drive that propels the music ever forward. That's because they operate by brute force. Their (vintage idler TTs) motors are typically AC synchronous motors, rated at anything from 15W to 20W. They have lots of torque, and that is a blessing as well as a bit of problem. Vintage TTs were typically housed in box type plinths. The box plinths became resonating chambers for the vibration induced by the powerful motors on the top plate which eventually gets conveyed to the plinth. So when these TTs were in production, they were not rated too highly from measurements perspective. Jean Nantais, the gentleman from Canada who brought about the renaissance of Lencos recognised that Lencos needed mass loading to drain away the vibrations from the motor. Hence the heavy and massive plinths so popular with Lencos.

Sonically, they produce a lively and dynamic sound, with lots of sense of drive. Bass can be thunderous with the right electronics and speakers. The one area where they may not measure up to the better modern belt drives is in digging out finer nuances. Their sound signature is very akin to other idler drives like the Garrard 301 or 401 but not similar to a hybrid like the Thorens TD124 (which has a more subdued signature).

PS: a good belt drive TT like the legendary Linn Sondek or even lesser TTs like the Thorens TD 160, 150, 125, etc can also have a very dynamic drive, provided one tunes the suspension well.

PS2: one can lavish good arm and cartridge on as Lenco rebuild project. For example, the Rega RB330 arm that mpw has bought is by no means cheap. The loaner Origin Live Silver Mark III arm in use right now costs much more than the RB330. So "outlay" can be modest to fairly high.

Thanks a lot Jls. While talking about belt driven turntables, you mentioned Linn and Thorens and that too referred the old models. Linn can be a royal PIA for setup. There are so many new belt driven table brands these days. What do lose when you pick up a typical 3 to 4k $ belt driven table ( all-inclusive of tonearm, and cartridge ) from the likes of Vpi, Rega, Scheu analogue etc.. ? There are so many more brands out there, I just mentioned a few of the popular ones among audiophiles. Or what can you expect in terms of performance ?

My tryst with turntables was some 20 years ago. Whenever I talk to senior people into vinyl, they are all on a “ certain trip “ with a unwavering focus towards a particular goal with sound. It is like talking to someone who is into SET and single driver speaker only. Nothing wrong with it. I respect it because that’s what this hobby is all about. However, it becomes a bit of a problem if you are in the game for playing a wide range and genre of music and trying to get the essence of analogue magic while keeping digital as your primary source.