Thinking upgrading but it's too difficult.

[bpranay]

Hi Folks,
Today I got devastated after taking an audition of B&W 606 S3 & Monitor Audio Bronze 100 Bookshelf speakers.

I have been using my Wharfedale Diamond 225 with Denon X2600h since last 5 years & really happy with them. These are paired with my Denon X2600h and I generally listen to the music in stereo mode on Spotify with heos app.

This thing called upgrade itch has bitten me and I went on to take the audition of B&W 606 S3 & MA Bronze 100 My impressions as below:

Songs: Knockin on heaven's door by Guns N Roses, Tequila Sunrise by Eagles & Don't Stop by Fleetwood Mac
Source: Spotify on heos app
AVR: Marantz Cinema 50

B&W 606S3: It did not impress me at all. They are too bright. The sound stage was big, vocals were strong, highs were too high but it was sounding quite unnatural to me. It would have given me ear fatigue had I continued listening. IF I compare it with my existing speakers, although the soundstage with Wharfy's is not big but the any of the above song played is almost comparable to live stage listening. You hear every string of the guitar second by second, low, mid and highs gets separated meticulously. It seems so natural to me which was badly (I mean it) missing in B&W. May be the speakers were taken straight out of the packing & attached to AVR so some of its performance could be attributed to it being fresh.

Monitor Audio Bronze 100: The performance was close to what I am used to listening with my wharf's. The sound stage was big enough for a room. The performance was distortion free but still it did not ignite my ears. The sound was clear and neutral. But I felt it's still muddy as compared to wharfys. The lows were little on higher side.

The demo is making me think does the performance with costly speakers gets better with the cost or it's just a perception or speakers gets better with age. Or maybe I just stick to the same brand Wharfedale. My usage is around 50:50 and budget is around 80K. Was getting a good deal from the local dealer on B&W 606 S2 but this has just made me think will it be really worth? Evo 4.1 are out of my budget, and I think upgrading to Diamond 12.2 from my current speakers will not make much of a sense as I may not derive much of the upgrade in terms of sound. I had purchased Wharfedale purely on the basis of reviews without any audition.

If anybody thinks any other option, please put in your suggestions.

 

[Phani24]

Hi Folks,
Today I got devastated after taking an audition of B&W 606 S3 & Monitor Audio Bronze 100 Bookshelf speakers.

I have been using my Wharfedale Diamond 225 with Denon X2600h since last 5 years & really happy with them. These are paired with my Denon X2600h and I generally listen to the music in stereo mode on Spotify with heos app.

This thing called upgrade itch has bitten me and I went on to take the audition of B&W 606 S3 & MA Bronze 100 My impressions as below:

Songs: Knockin on heaven's door by Guns N Roses, Tequila Sunrise by Eagles & Don't Stop by Fleetwood Mac
Source: Spotify on heos app
AVR: Marantz Cinema 50

B&W 606S3: It did not impress me at all. They are too bright. The sound stage was big, vocals were strong, highs were too high but it was sounding quite unnatural to me. It would have given me ear fatigue had I continued listening. IF I compare it with my existing speakers, although the soundstage with Wharfy's is not big but the any of the above song played is almost comparable to live stage listening. You hear every string of the guitar second by second, low, mid and highs gets separated meticulously. It seems so natural to me which was badly (I mean it) missing in B&W. May be the speakers were taken straight out of the packing & attached to AVR so some of its performance could be attributed to it being fresh.

Monitor Audio Bronze 100: The performance was close to what I am used to listening with my wharf's. The sound stage was big enough for a room. The performance was distortion free but still it did not ignite my ears. The sound was clear and neutral. But I felt it's still muddy as compared to wharfys. The lows were little on higher side.

The demo is making me think does the performance with costly speakers gets better with the cost or it's just a perception or speakers gets better with age. Or maybe I just stick to the same brand Wharfedale. My usage is around 50:50 and budget is around 80K. Was getting a good deal from the local dealer on B&W 606 S2 but this has just made me think will it be really worth? Evo 4.1 are out of my budget, and I think upgrading to Diamond 12.2 from my current speakers will not make much of a sense as I may not derive much of the upgrade in terms of sound. I had purchased Wharfedale purely on the basis of reviews without any audition.

If anybody thinks any other option, please put in your suggestions.

Check India audio platinum achals or Diamond misra. Heard great about them in our form.

 

[fLUX]

Hi Folks,
Today I got devastated after taking an audition of B&W 606 S3 & Monitor Audio Bronze 100 Bookshelf speakers.

I have been using my Wharfedale Diamond 225 with Denon X2600h since last 5 years & really happy with them. These are paired with my Denon X2600h and I generally listen to the music in stereo mode on Spotify with heos app.

This thing called upgrade itch has bitten me and I went on to take the audition of B&W 606 S3 & MA Bronze 100 My impressions as below:

Songs: Knockin on heaven's door by Guns N Roses, Tequila Sunrise by Eagles & Don't Stop by Fleetwood Mac
Source: Spotify on heos app
AVR: Marantz Cinema 50

B&W 606S3: It did not impress me at all. They are too bright. The sound stage was big, vocals were strong, highs were too high but it was sounding quite unnatural to me. It would have given me ear fatigue had I continued listening. IF I compare it with my existing speakers, although the soundstage with Wharfy's is not big but the any of the above song played is almost comparable to live stage listening. You hear every string of the guitar second by second, low, mid and highs gets separated meticulously. It seems so natural to me which was badly (I mean it) missing in B&W. May be the speakers were taken straight out of the packing & attached to AVR so some of its performance could be attributed to it being fresh.

Monitor Audio Bronze 100: The performance was close to what I am used to listening with my wharf's. The sound stage was big enough for a room. The performance was distortion free but still it did not ignite my ears. The sound was clear and neutral. But I felt it's still muddy as compared to wharfys. The lows were little on higher side.

The demo is making me think does the performance with costly speakers gets better with the cost or it's just a perception or speakers gets better with age. Or maybe I just stick to the same brand Wharfedale. My usage is around 50:50 and budget is around 80K. Was getting a good deal from the local dealer on B&W 606 S2 but this has just made me think will it be really worth? Evo 4.1 are out of my budget, and I think upgrading to Diamond 12.2 from my current speakers will not make much of a sense as I may not derive much of the upgrade in terms of sound. I had purchased Wharfedale purely on the basis of reviews without any audition.

If anybody thinks any other option, please put in your suggestions.

It's neither a perception nor the truth. Cost increase doesn't guarantee a sound signature you like & secondly is neither a guarantee of an outright proportional improvement.

One thing you need to keep in mind as you go up the ladder is or even at entry level is
i) The partnering equipment matter a lot. While some speakers sound fine out of an AVR for stereo , many others are very critical of the entire chain. IMO driving a B&W with Marantz 50 is not a good way to portray the speakers capabilities, they need a better chain & again the sound might not be to your preference

ii) If your usage is primarily music then adding a good integrated amp with HT bypass is the right way to go before you get a speaker upgrade.You would be surprised with the improvements possible even with your current speakers.

 

[bpranay]

It's neither a perception nor the truth. Cost increase doesn't guarantee a sound signature you like & secondly is neither a guarantee of an outright proportional improvement.

One thing you need to keep in mind as you go up the ladder is or even at entry level is
i) The partnering equipment matter a lot. While some speakers sound fine out of an AVR for stereo , many others are very critical of the entire chain. IMO driving a B&W with Marantz 50 is not a good way to portray the speakers capabilities, they need a better chain & again the sound might not be to your preference

ii) If your usage is primarily music then adding a good integrated amp with HT bypass is the right way to go before you get a speaker upgrade.You would be surprised with the improvements possible even with your current speakers.

I was just trying to compare it in a similar kind of setup without having to spend additionally for integrated amp. My usage is 50 %music and 50 % movies. But the startling thing is it did not elevate my experience with better AVR paired with expensive speakers. May be B&W needs care in partnering with the right equipment. I am not saying they are inferiors. I don’t have pre-outs in my AVR so I am a noob here connecting my current AVR with integrated amp. It has got Zone 2 and not sure how I can put it into use.

 

[Saiganesh]

Hi Folks,
Today I got devastated after taking an audition of B&W 606 S3 & Monitor Audio Bronze 100 Bookshelf speakers.

I have been using my Wharfedale Diamond 225 with Denon X2600h since last 5 years & really happy with them. These are paired with my Denon X2600h and I generally listen to the music in stereo mode on Spotify with heos app.

This thing called upgrade itch has bitten me and I went on to take the audition of B&W 606 S3 & MA Bronze 100 My impressions as below:

Songs: Knockin on heaven's door by Guns N Roses, Tequila Sunrise by Eagles & Don't Stop by Fleetwood Mac
PSource: Spotify on heos app
AVR: Marantz Cinema 50

B&W 606S3: It did not impress me at all. They are too bright. The sound stage was big, vocals were strong, highs were too high but it was sounding quite unnatural to me. It would have given me ear fatigue had I continued listening. IF I compare it with my existing speakers, although the soundstage with Wharfy's is not big but the any of the above song played is almost comparable to live stage listening. You hear every string of the guitar second by second, low, mid and highs gets separated meticulously. It seems so natural to me which was badly (I mean it) missing in B&W. May be the speakers were taken straight out of the packing & attached to AVR so some of its performance could be attributed to it being fresh.

Monitor Audio Bronze 100: The performance was close to what I am used to listening with my wharf's. The sound stage was big enough for a room. The performance was distortion free but still it did not ignite my ears. The sound was clear and neutral. But I felt it's still muddy as compared to wharfys. The lows were little on higher side.

The demo is making me think does the performance with costly speakers gets better with the cost or it's just a perception or speakers gets better with age. Or maybe I just stick to the same brand Wharfedale. My usage is around 50:50 and budget is around 80K. Was getting a good deal from the local dealer on B&W 606 S2 but this has just made me think will it be really worth? Evo 4.1 are out of my budget, and I think upgrading to Diamond 12.2 from my current speakers will not make much of a sense as I may not derive much of the upgrade in terms of sound. I had purchased Wharfedale purely on the basis of reviews without any audition.

If anybody thinks any other option, please put in your suggestions.

When already used to warm sound, bright doesnt allure...
have been using monitor audio silver for more than a decade and the sweetness of those highs (not sharpness 2khz -7khz) is addictive, when combined with modern texturing of voice with those highs is something I always look for.

Warm sound doesnt allure me now.

Try listening to kef - how do they sound for you?? - for me q950 had a very good (perfect) balance of lo, mid and highs...your opinion of this will help me understand how warm listeners feel
and
for 2ch music - go with rs6k class D amp from amazon and a pair of bookshelf (chose warm bookshelves)

 

[bpranay]

Any words on KEF Q350 & Dali Oberon 3?

 

[mbhangui]

Warm sound doesnt allure me now.

Try listening to kef - how do they sound for you?? - for me q950 had a very good (perfect) balance of lo, mid and highs...your opinion of this will help me understand how warm listeners feel
and
for 2ch music - go with rs6k class D amp from amazon and a pair of bookshelf (chose warm bookshelves)

Exactly the reason I have junked anything to do with valve amplifiers. Hell with whatever warm sound means. My mainstay is now Class D and even my Yamaha AVR sounds better than the valve amps that I have auditioned and the one that I have. Warm sound just doesn't cut it for me. I think the brain of every individual is different. Just because majority prefer it doesn't mean that you have to go with the crowd. I will give a simple example.

Here in Maharashtra people like putting sugar in lot of things. They put sugar/jaggery in sambar, they put sugar on Poha, they put sugar in Uppuma. I spent 20 years in TN. I love the sambar they make there. I love the filter coffee that they made there. After tasting sambar from TN, I just cannot tolerate the sambar made in Mahrashtra and Karnataka. This reminds me of my Austrian driver when touring Europe. He said you Indians are like the Briitish. You know how to ruin a good coffee by putting milk in it.

BTW: Sambar's origin comes from Maharashtra who introduced it to South India when they invaded large parts of TN (Tanjore). The name comes from Sambhaji in whose honour the concoction was first prepared

 

[bpranay]

Exactly the reason I have junked anything to do with valve amplifiers. Hell with whatever warm sound means. My mainstay is now Class D and even my Yamaha AVR sounds better than the valve amps that I have auditioned and the one that I have. Warm sound just doesn't cut it for me. I think the brain of every individual is different. Just because majority prefer it doesn't mean that you have to go with the crowd. I will give a simple example.

It’s not like that I came across so many people & they were all listening to warm sound & suddenly I started listening to warm sounding speakers. It’s kind of evolved slowly slowly. Before wharfs, I had bright sounding speakers which I wasn’t able to tolerate beyond certain period. So this all percolates down to individuals preference & choice.

TW: Sambar's origin comes from Maharashtra who introduced it to South India when they invaded large parts of TN (Tanjore). The name comes from Sambhaji in whose honour the concoction was first prepared

Me too from Maharashtra but settled in Chandigarh but never knew this before. Quite an enlightenment

 

[mbhangui]

Me too from Maharashtra but settled in Chandigarh but never knew this before. Quite an enlightenment

all of human kinds are connected in more ways that you can think of. Drums came from Indus Valley/Mehrgarh Civilization. Many of our languages came from the middle east/Iran (Indo European, Dravidian and few other independent languages), there are too many similarites in Religion and even the epics (Ramayana, Maharabharata, Illiad, Odyssey written by blind poets), Agriculture (Rice/Barley to begin with), intoxication (Homa Ras in Zen Avesta and Soma Ras in Vedas), Daivas and Asuras. Daivas are the bad people in Zen Avesta but good people known as Devas in Vedas. Ahuras the good people in Zen Avesta but bad people known as Asuras in the Vedas. Brother/Biradar, Father, Mother are all from Sanskrit. Illam is home in Dravidian and so it is in the Babylon language, just like Kovil which is temple in Dravidian language and the same word was used in Babylon. We are all connected in some way or the other unless one wants to climb the Nationalistic ladder. All this differing opinion and tastes are individual choices and there is nothing wrong with it. You may like Jazz or warm sound. Someone else might like bright music. We just need to recognize that and move on and be unapologetic about it.

 

[fLUX]

I was just trying to compare it in a similar kind of setup without having to spend additionally for integrated amp. My usage is 50 %music and 50 % movies. But the startling thing is it did not elevate my experience with better AVR paired with expensive speakers. May be B&W needs care in partnering with the right equipment. I am not saying they are inferiors. I don’t have pre-outs in my AVR so I am a noob here connecting my current AVR with integrated amp. It has got Zone 2 and not sure how I can put it into use.

I moved from a 2600h to 4500h within a few months of picking one purely due to preouts and Audyssey XT32 back in the day. I felt that purely from a stereo performance there was not a big notiecable difference between the two.

Only when I went the routes of separates/ integrated for stereo did I realise it's potential & the limitations the AVR had from every aspect. A 50/50 ratio imo warrants a good integrated amplifier ( not entry level ones as it will likely sound similar to avrs in many aspects) , the lack of preouts can be compensated with a speaker switch for either scenarios.

Some speakers are not fussy about pairings, some are very fussy. Generally speakers which run a little hot.on treble when not given a good source and amplification sound thin and bright. Now again you might not like it with the right amplification too due to your personal preferences, but thats the way anyone owning a demo center should take the effort to set it up and give their potential customers a way to listen the speakers to their true potential. I would recommend to audition speakers at fellow audiophile homes , they would have taken more effort and care in setting them up more often than not.

There is a whole world out there with really good speakers across budgets , go with an open mind & try them out , forget the general opinion on warm vs bright speakers & valve vs ss amplification. If you audition little more I am sure your doubt will be erased

 

[grindstone]

I think the advice in this thread is spot-on. Whole chain matters. Get (even cheap) class D dedicated. Always allow for "synergy" (practically, this means "try stuff because you never know"). Ignore ratings/ravings & trust your own ears. Everyone is in a different place and, if it's not fun, don't do it. Never forget that maybe a friend might swap gear with your for a week or two--so you both get to hear new things for free. This is about enjoying music, or it once was

 

[Analogous]

Since you have the upgrade bug, it would be worthwhile thinking a bit about what you want more of while listening to music. As @fLUX has highlighted your AV receiver may not be living up to your expectations when it comes to music playback. It is after all primarily designed for AV experience (though many are happy using it for music listening too, as you have till now). In my limited experience with HT, the visual almost always takes priority over the audio and moving images on a screen distract from the music experience, except in concert recordings where movement is in sync with the music.

A separate chain for music might be one way to go either using your current speakers or with new ones. If spending significant money it would be rewarding to listen to other setups from your local FMs to help you decide what you like or dont, and also learn more in the topic (inviting them to come and listen to your current set up is even better). I know I had a steep learning curve thanks to discussions with several FM here and on the forum.

Exactly the reason I have junked anything to do with valve amplifiers. Hell with whatever warm sound means. My mainstay is now Class D and even my Yamaha AVR sounds better than the valve amps that I have auditioned and the one that I have. Warm sound just doesn't cut it for me. I think the brain of every individual is different. Just because majority prefer it doesn't mean that you have to go with the crowd. I will give a simple example.

Here in Maharashtra people like putting sugar in lot of things. They put sugar/jaggery in sambar, they put sugar on Poha, they put sugar in Uppuma. I spent 20 years in TN. I love the sambar they make there. I love the filter coffee that they made there. After tasting sambar from TN, I just cannot tolerate the sambar made in Mahrashtra and Karnataka. This reminds me of my Austrian driver when touring Europe. He said you Indians are like the Briitish. You know how to ruin a good coffee by putting milk in it.

BTW: Sambar's origin comes from Maharashtra who introduced it to South India when they invaded large parts of TN (Tanjore). The name comes from Sambhaji in whose honour the concoction was first prepared

Everything we eat, use and believe is from somewhere else.
My moment of epiphany was when I realised my predicament: speakers are from Trump land, DAc from Poland, Streamer from Korea land, Amp is from Deutsch land, interconnects from Bengaluru land. Music I listen is from earth land.
Sharing and exchange of ideas and techniques, intermingling, migration are what has brought us all to this point in time. “Pure” is a myth except in chemistry labs and in the minds of some.

There is startling new evidence on the origins of people in India (and everywhere)

Who are we Indians? Genetics is bringing bad news for the politics of identity: We are all migrants

Many pundits predict that the approaching 2019 election is likely to focus on identity politics primarily because of economic discontent, making BJP turn to identity and other non-economic issues. Before we are engulfed in election...

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

If we still want to be pedantic about it then we are all of African origin and have been collecting cultural baggage (including the sambar recipe) along the way. Our view depends on whether we use a wide angle lens or one with a narrow field of vision.

 

[chander]

If you like the sound of your speakers, atleast in my opinion, invest in a good subwoofer.

Obviously IF it is all about the itch, the go ahead and splurge by all means.

Investment in a subwoofer will not be wasted even if you go ahead and change your entire chain.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Everything we eat, use and believe is from somewhere else.
My moment of epiphany was when I realised my predicament: speakers are from Trump land, DAc from Poland, Streamer from Korea land, Amp is from Deutsch land, interconnects from Bengaluru land. Music I listen is from earth land.
Sharing and exchange of ideas and techniques, intermingling, migration are what has brought us all to this point in time. “Pure” is a myth except in chemistry labs and in the minds of some.

There is startling new evidence on the origins of people in India (and everywhere)

Who are we Indians? Genetics is bringing bad news for the politics of identity: We are all migrants

Many pundits predict that the approaching 2019 election is likely to focus on identity politics primarily because of economic discontent, making BJP turn to identity and other non-economic issues. Before we are engulfed in election...

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

If we still want to be pedantic about it then we are all of African origin and have been collecting cultural baggage (including the sambar recipe) along the way. Our view depends on whether we use a wide angle lens or one with a narrow field of vision.

This has chosen an arbitrary point in time, we may as well say (correctly) we are all single celled organisms, the first form of life said to have been borne in the oceans. The argument is weak and flawed in my opinion.

You can buy whatever speakers you want but rest assured, purity (from the viewpoint of the modern world) exists. You may choose to have a different view, but not everyone agrees.

 

[Analogous]

This has chosen an arbitrary point in time, we may as well say (correctly) we are all single celled organisms, the first form of life said to have been borne in the oceans. The argument is weak and flawed in my opinion.

You can buy whatever speakers you want but rest assured, purity (from the viewpoint of the modern world) exists. You may choose to have a different view, but not everyone agrees.

Please Choose any point in time this (edit: human) context and tell us what you find
The title of this thread is brilliant and applies to our thinking and world view too

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Please Choose any point in time context and tell us what you find
The title of this thread is brilliant and applies to our thinking and world view too

I already have. Further discussions are not really part of the audio board.

I disagree. Also our thinking and worldview is formed by an infinite number of factors.

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

BTW: Sambar's origin comes from Maharashtra who introduced it to South India when they invaded large parts of TN (Tanjore). The name comes from Sambhaji in whose honour the concoction was first prepared

Wikipedia also says:

“The word sambar (சாம்பார்) stems from the Tamilword champāram (சம்பாரம்).

A Tamil inscription of 1530 CE, shows the use of the word champāram in the sense of meaning a dish of rice accompanying other rice dishes or spice ingredients with which a dish of vegetable rice is cooked:“

 

[mbhangui]

Wikipedia also says:

“The word sambar (சாம்பார்) stems from the Tamilword champāram (சம்பாரம்).

A Tamil inscription of 1530 CE, shows the use of the word champāram in the sense of meaning a dish of rice accompanying other rice dishes or spice ingredients with which a dish of vegetable rice is cooked:“

The wikipedia mentions two different versions on the origin of sambar. One by Acharya and one that speaks about Maharashtrian origin.

here is an interesting book which also mentions that.

Where Did Sambhar Come From, & Whose Samosa Is It Anyway?

Decoding the origins of India's favourite food, Sonal Ved tells us what makes Indian cuisine unlike any other.

www.thebetterindia.com

“It is believed that sambhar came into being only when the Marathas began ruling in southern Indian, and was named after Sambhaji, Shivaji’s eldest son. Apparently, Sambhaji was an ardent cook and was fond of a Marathi dish called aamti, which is a lentil-based stew soured with hints of kokum. The story goes that one day, the regular stash of kokum did not reach the Tanjore palace’s kitchen on time. Instead of telling Sambhaji that aamti could not be made, the sous chef improvised by adding a dash of tamarind pulp, something the locals had been using for years for its tartness. The dish became such a hit in the court kitchen that it was named sambhar after Sambhaji, and from Tanjore it spread to other parts of south India,” reads an excerpt from the book.

 

[Analogous]

Let’s get back on track as @Decadent_Spectre suggests?
Food analogies are distracting

 

[spirovious]

Here in Maharashtra people like putting sugar in lot of things. They put sugar/jaggery in sambar, they put sugar on Poha, they put sugar in Uppuma.

This is a very bold statement as Maharashtra is vast in terms of community & culture. You will find changes is traditions and even language differences even its a Marathi.Making of food also changes with the area.Taste of poha,upama is very different from part to part. I guess you need to explore more .