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TurnTables Sound better than Digital !!! - Really ???

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KiranPS

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For people who don't want to read a long article, Here I document my Journey from -> Like (to) Hate (and then to) Love Turntables.

Well before I start my rant let me first share my beginings ,
After reading about how turntables are the last word in audio fidelity , I had to try it. I wanted to buy a new Turntable but almost everyone told me that
I am better off getting an older used one in good condition, rather than a new one.

So I went ahead and got a Used AKAI Turn table (I think it was AP-D210 - Direct Drive with servo lock.) with a new Audio Technics cartridge. I got the usual old and new Records the new ones were Laagan , DDLJ, Silsila (new release) 1942 a love story etc and for the older LPs I got Miles Davis, Boney M , Bee gees etc.

The Honeymoon (Every thing is new and great )
-------------------------------------------------------------

I have an ONKYO 609 , it does not have a phono preamp so I got a Cambridge audio Preamp and connected it to my AV receiver with ELAC FS 58.2 speakers. When I played DDLJ It was ok , then I played Marvin Gaye It was great. I was actually surprised that such good sound can come from an old Turntable. I started getting more vintage and new LPs and they all sounded great , I did hear the pops and clicks but I knew that it was a
part of the medium.

Back from the Honeymoon (The cute things start to annoy you).
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well every one told me that I had to expect pops and clicks in the records and this is normal because of the dust particles on the LPs. I tried hard, but I was never able to get rid of them completely, no matter how hard I cleaned the records. They were always there. They were more on the vintage records. This was getting a little annoying.

The next was that the speed of the turntable was not always the same so I could actually hear the songs slow down and speed up. Then I found that most 80s & 90s desi records were not well produced, so much so that even the center hole of the record were not in the center. This made the tone arm drift (left to right) , leading to the sound volume increasing and decreasing. And a lot of records were a little warped so the tonearm and the cartridge was going up and down this again was leading to sound volume and range changing continuously.
I also started clearly noticing that the Left and Right channels were not having the same volume level and range. Well I know now why old amps needed to have a Balance control.

A little reading let me to understand that over time the following parameters keep changing in the turntable and need periodic adjustments. You actually also have to have this setup properly to start with.

1)Cartridge Alignment ( Tracking Angle )
2)Azimuth
3)Vertical Tracking Force (VTF)
4)Zenith
5)Base Leveling etc.

There were long multi-page articles about setting up and using the turn table.
Then there were these products like alignment protractors, VTF gauges etc.
Even if I do all of the above perfectly , I knew , I will still get clicks and pops from the dust and any time someone walks by or taps the table that I have the Turntable on , I could hear it. I even tried a Valve AMP with the CA preamp to see if it improves the sound to make it worthwhile, well it did a little but not to the point I was expecting.

I never have to do any of the above for my CDs or FLAC files from my USB HDD and the music from them sound great. No Clicks or pops , no volume level drifts, no speed issues (even if they were, not noticeable by me). Then for digital music there is the convenience of having a few GB on a NAS or HDD and have any song play at anytime from my DLNA manager instead of manually loading the LPs. Well at least from the sound quality I was getting from LPs and TT, it was not worth the extra effort.

I thought that people who say that LPs sound better than CDs and Flacs, were smoking something or like everything nostalgic you feel that things were much better earlier (even though they were not). So I packed up the turntable and went back to the FLACs.


The Re-discovery , Realization and Appreciation.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

There was a nagging feeling for me that maybe I missed something and there is something to LPs and turntables. I thought maybe I got some of the components wrong like using an AV receiver instead of a stereo amp and using a separate preamp instead of an AMP with phono input. Maybe my Speakers were suited for HT and not for Stereo Music.

I hunted around and I got a vintage Denon PMA 480R amp with phono preamp. I hooked this up to the AKAI TT and ELAC and I could notice a sound improvement. It sounded louder and I could make out more detail, I knew I was on the right track. I had a EPOS M12i in my bedroom, I knew that EPOS was suited for music. I hooked up the EPOS to the Denon and the sound improved greatly but still I could not get rid of the speed and volume issues with the turntable so I requested the guys who sold me the AKAI ( Mohan Musicals Chennai ) for an upgrade. Many thanks to them they gave me a trade in to a Technics SL 5100 with a Shure M44-7 Cartridge with a brand new stylus.

With this setup I played Silsia and I must say IT BLEW ME AWAY. I don't know what it was. It was not the purity, I could still hear the clicks and pops, It was not the Freq Range, the tweeters and the sub-woofer in my Onkyo setup have much better range. It was something else altogether. It was PRESENSE. I could feel as if someone was playing in front of me. I tried other LPs and they were all the same, they all had a presence that the FLACS never had. I could for the first time understand the concept of the sound stage. This Vintage Turntable and amp with EPOS speakers were sounding better than my ELAC setup. This was actually more musical.

Digital music is clear and perfect but never real. LPs are REAL. I don't know weather it is in the recording , or the analog playback path, LPs have for the first time made me Feel the music (not the BASS thumping feel but Emotional Feel). It might not have the perfection of the digital but I now know why it appeals to so many. For the first time I felt that Amitabh bachchan was talking in front of me (Silsila LP). I could hear marvin gaye sing in my living room.

I will not call LPs better than CDs in terms of quality. I know from experience, for LPs to sound comparable to CDs you have to get so many things right. The gear should be matched, the cartridge should have exact alignments , levels etc. Once you have them its very easy to surpass the CD / FLAC quality. I guess that is the reason we can never have the ultimate TT no matter how much we are willing to spend, they can always improve something to get better sound.

I have started appreciating Music more than ever before. I can now see what the guys who are playing it are trying to convey. I now can see so many dimensions of music that I never could see , feel or understand.

I would defiantly say that even though you can hear Clicks Pops and noise,
LPs convey music Much Much better than CDs or Flacs any day.

Well isn't that what we all want ?
 
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anilva

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Well, you are not alone in this kind of experience. There are many of us, who have gone through the Vinyl rediscovery process and in the end, it is worth it. Many times, it is just not about playing music, but is about cleaning the record, cueing the stylus carefully, watching it turn while it is producing great music. All of these add to the experience. Enjoy...
 

musicbee

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Many times, it is just not about playing music, but is about cleaning the record, cueing the stylus carefully, watching it turn while it is producing great music. All of these add to the experience. Enjoy...
That's the problem with audiophiles. They do pretty much everything other than listen to or even (God forbid) enjoy music. Music is more than the experience related to the equipment. Good music will uplift, heal, refresh, rejuvenate, relax, eliminate anger & frustration, relax the mind, etc. (I guess the list would be a mile long).

Wonder when people forgot that and gain their enjoyment from cables, formats, wooden knobs, wooden lenses, power conditioners, and a mile long list of snake oil audiophile claims.

PS - No serious audiophiles were hurt during this rant!

And we are tired of this vinyl vs. digital argument... wish people would rest this case.
 

Staxxx

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Oh no not another thread about this!! :)))
I assure you I have heard very analogue sounding digital systems (like mine at the moment) and terrible analogue systems (like mine in the past). However it is wonderful that OP has found his path to nirvana and can now enjoy the MUSIC !
 

Gerry_the_Merry

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Enjoyment of music is not the only objective - this debate also at times is stimulating, though it does get overdone at times. But in physically participating in this debate, i.e. by listening to high end rigs, one does get to learn, and learn to form one's own opinions.

I recently heard 3 systems - 1) In Ong Radio, Singapore, a Mcintosh CD player playing into MA 6600 Mcintosh Amplifier feeding Focal Chorus 836V speakers 2) Focal Scala Utopia with Mcintosh 601 and Mcintosh CD player 3) In Hong Kong, JR Trans Rotor TurnTable with its own tonearm and Koetsu Onyx cartridge feeding Krell Evolution 600 and Gershman speakers.

On the first two I heard Hotel California, and on the third Sunny Rollins. All three systems were majestic, and it was incredible how Ong Radio gets such great sound from what is a relatively humble speaker (836v). On the JR TransRotor, I daresay even Sonny Rollins would not have heard his own recordings presented in such a tremendously powerful and stunning manner.

When I hear decisive comments that analogue is better / digital is better, LPs are better than FLAC etc, I wonder if this opinion will hold if systems which are perfectly set up in good rooms are heard. You will accept that both analogue and digital can be taken to very high levels.
 

ranjeetrain

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Digital vs analog needs a fair comparison

I wonder if any recently recorded/mastered material was used for these comparisons that have helped come to such conclusion!

The mastering process in the past decades were crap. Computers ran at snail pace and merely being able to produce something that could create magic (opps I mean music) from a plastic disc with no visible grooves on it, and no dust to upset it was considered a miracle. Those days are long gone though.

Fast forward to 21st century. Today's digital doesn't only offer the convenience, but it also offers sophistication and fidelity. Now we have mastering processes that can bring near LP fidelity to red book CDs. Today's digital rips are better sounding than LPs because they capture more (or should I say lose less) of the original analog waveform. Besides, they don't offer additional freebies such as pops and crackles. And for purists looking for nothing but the best there are high resolution downloads which are no less than studio master quality of not more than a decade ago.

I also wonder, whether the FLACs that were used for these comparisons were self ripped FLACs or downloaded ones. Internet is full of FLACs which are converted/upsampled from MP3s. You can't compare the digital and analog until they were created from the same source. The source for a lot of so called FLAC available on Internet is actually compressed music. Such a comparison should be made with sources for which digital is available in genuine high resolution (rather than up sampled by a self proclaimed nerd and released on a torrent site). Today's, digital rips are way better, almost equal to analog, if not better.

I am a music lover first and I very much in the camp that firmly believes in being an audiophile is not about being a gear head, but loving the music and enjoying it. But, all said and done, after having experienced the convenience and sophistication of the digital, I would not be able to accept analog. Not until I retire and I seriously need something to do, something to make me move, by which time my ears would also be less demanding of frequency extremes and more appreciative of tonal balance.
 

Saket

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This topic by now is beaten to death...not only on this forum but worldwide. IMO, a lot is about recording/pressing. There are some wonderful acoustics on CDs while there are so many badly pressed vinyls. However, most newer LPs produced of recent movies (not talking about reissues of older LPs) sound fabulous, there is no doubt about it. Both digital & analogue music can represent music pretty well depending on the set-up. But those who like to associate themselves with the nostalgia & that big album art and enjoy looking at the spinning disc with a bizarrely tiny needle over that even more bizarrely microscopic groove of a record producing that rich & full music, there is just no alternative to that experience, joy and magnificent feeling. It is somply unmatchable by any other format I know & probably will know. I have always from my childhood believed & listened to vinyls but as a fact, in the last few months, I think I have almost given up digital music completely. Its mostly only on FM radio or CDs in my car. I dont really remember playing a CD at home...no offence meant to digital lovers...but probably this format had won me all over again, emotionally & may be technically too.
I hope I have not beaten it more!

Thanks,
Saket
 

KiranPS

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Re: Digital vs analog needs a fair comparison

I also wonder, whether the FLACs that were used for these comparisons were self ripped FLACs or downloaded ones. Internet is full of FLACs which are converted/upsampled from MP3s. You can't compare the digital and analog until they were created from the same source. The source for a lot of so called FLAC available on Internet is actually compressed music.
I have used FLACS that were ripped from original CDs using EAC. I also have some 24/96 and 24/192 FLACs from HDTracks.com.

To be honest, LPs are never going to be my day to day choice for music listening. I listen to music when working on my computer. The convenience of streaming a playlist from my PC to the Receiver using DLNA can never be replaced with running to the TT every time I want a new song or to change
the side.

I wanted to just share my thoughts on why TTs do sound better.

To be fair I will also share my issues with FLACs.

First, since it is digital music , the DAC in the gear makes all the difference,
Secondly, the Clock and the CPU speed in the FLAC decoder also make a huge difference.

The quality of the DAC in PCs are pretty bad so the newer laptops and
things like the USB DACs help in cleaning up the playback considerably. Anyone can try this, connecting the Line out from a PC to an AMP vs using a dedicated DAC or a gadget like the Dragon fly.

In DACs there are two types SYNC and ASYNC, if we use SYNC DAC the PC streams the data using a fixed clock from the PC side, since most PC operating systems are not Realtime and (Linux being an embedded OS is still not truly realtime) they can stop sending the data to the DAC when a higher priority task comes along like inserting a banged up CD in to the CDROM Drive. The CD Driver is too busy trying to error correct the CD that it slows down (locks in the kernel mode) and sometimes locks up the PC for a few seconds. So FLACS can actually SKIP just like LPs.

ASYNC DACs take care of this issue by allowing the PC to dump the data to its buffers and uses its internal clock to send the data out.

Now comes the CPU / FLAC Decoder quality. I always assumed that digital data being digital data and FLAC being loss-less it should sound the same if the DACs are the same. Well its not.

When I Play Flacs from USB Thumb drive direclty connected to the ONKYO it sound much better than, When I play the same FLAC from a USB Thumb drive connected to an ASUS OPlay connected to the Onkyo over Optical connection.
I wondered how this was since in both the cases I was using the DAC in the ONKYO, then I read that the FLAC decoder performance is based on the CPU speed and clock jitter. I guess ONKYO uses a much better FLAC decoder than ASUS Oplay.

Similarly if I were to connect the analog out from the ASUS Oplay it would sounds worse than the Onkyo because the DAC in the OPLay is a cheap Cirrus logic chip, but the one in ONKYO is a TI Burr Brown DAC.

So even in the world of Digital there are enough areas to improve.

Let me also say that there is a difference between digitaly mastered LPs and old Analog mastered LPs. The new digital ones are just as lifeless as their FLAC counter parts , they do have a little more detail since they are transferred from the original digital master ( I assume at 24/192 ) compared to a CDs which are at (16/44.1). They simply do not compare to the old analog masters.

I guess analog did capture the original waveform and not discrete sampling of the waveform. Analog when played back , I don't know how, but sounds much more real to us.
 

technobhatt

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I might be a noob on this subject, yet I read a lot on Digital/Analogue war and I welcome and love all the heated discussions on this subject :) Keep it up Fellas!!

Seriously I am into Digital and I prefer the convenience of digital. I don't listen all the songs of an album at a time. I am a sort of 'playlist' guy and have a low-end music setup to enjoy.
Please somebody invite me for a 'Turntable/LP' experience and I'll owe you an evening with chilled beers :)
 

Thad E Ginathom

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A couple of random thoughts...

I could notice a sound improvement. It sounded louder and I could make out more detail
It probably was, and so you probably did. First rule of audio: Louder, unless already too loud, is always better.

Different combinations of equipment produce different levels; the setting of the volume control is always subjective, and even imperceptible level changes can change how we rate the sound quality. As none of us (anyone?) use a known signal and an SPL meter, this might well be one of the main reasons that one similar piece of kit gets preferred to another. This is not an analogue vs digital observation, it is an anything vs anything observation.

It is perfectly possible to have LPs without pops and crackles. If you are lucky, they come that way brand new, and you will have the knack to keep them that way. Sadly, I don't. Much of the noise we hear from LPs is not dirt, but surface damage, and no amount of cleaning can remove that.

Minor crackles fade into the background of our LP listening. I guess they become part of the experience. Oddly, I find those noises much more anoying on a digital "rip" of the album. I have never worked out if there is a audio reason for that. or if it is just my brain thinking, this is digital; they shouldn't be there!

By comparison, years ago, I used to find bad scratches less annoying on a cassette copy. The cassette cannot cope with the dynamic range of the scratch, so it gets muted a bit. With digital editting, we can mute it a whole lot more. Skilled people can do wonders to clean up vinyl rips --- but the noise we still hear is then different to the original. A bad click will have caused clipping on the digital recording anyway. Maybe this is why digitally recorded clicks are more annoying.

The worst thing about a bad scratch is the feeling of what it is doing to the stylus, which was my original reason for getting the contents of such LPs onto other media.

I've heard it said (LP guys?) that every cartridge has a different flavour. Possibly then, the sound of every TT set up is unique, and the work (and cash) that people put in to them is rewarded by them getting exactly the sound that they want. A DAC (internal, external, soundcard, etc) ideally should be transparent, ie unflavoured, but we know that all CD players do not sound the same, all stand-alone DACs do not sound the same. Are their sounds as individual as those of different deck/tone-arm/cartridge combinations?
 
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Gerry_the_Merry

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Convenience is perhaps not the most important factor for a true blue nutty audiophile. It is one factor no doubt.

I would rate the availability of music, the ability and opportunity to tweak, and the emotional connect as among the most important aspects of what influences personal preference.

On availability of music, just as an example, post 1984 Indian music is hardly available on vinyl. On tweaks, I find that the possibilities are almost as rich in PC audio as on vinyl. Beyond the source and phono preamp, tweaks are possible on other parts of the system, so a digital guy need not really feel left out. On emotional connect, I have personally long gone past the stage of watching a disc magically spinning on the TT and contributing to an analog mood. I care about having scratch less LPs and Thad has said, keeping them that way. Ticks and Pops are indeed annoying.
 

abhraneel

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this argument will go on and on and on and on...but those who have "tasted" vinyl won't be very comfortable switching to any other media...i wish i had a vinyl player for my car also..

cheers...


For people who don't want to read a long article, Here I document my Journey from -> Like (to) Hate (and then to) Love Turntables.

Well before I start my rant let me first share my beginings ,
After reading about how turntables are the last word in audio fidelity , I had to try it. I wanted to buy a new Turntable but almost everyone told me that
I am better off getting an older used one in good condition, rather than a new one.

So I went ahead and got a Used AKAI Turn table (I think it was AP-D210 - Direct Drive with servo lock.) with a new Audio Technics cartridge. I got the usual old and new Records the new ones were Laagan , DDLJ, Silsila (new release) 1942 a love story etc and for the older LPs I got Miles Davis, Boney M , Bee gees etc.

The Honeymoon (Every thing is new and great )
-------------------------------------------------------------

I have an ONKYO 609 , it does not have a phono preamp so I got a Cambridge audio Preamp and connected it to my AV receiver with ELAC FS 58.2 speakers. When I played DDLJ It was ok , then I played Marvin Gaye It was great. I was actually surprised that such good sound can come from an old Turntable. I started getting more vintage and new LPs and they all sounded great , I did hear the pops and clicks but I knew that it was a
part of the medium.

Back from the Honeymoon (The cute things start to annoy you).
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Well every one told me that I had to expect pops and clicks in the records and this is normal because of the dust particles on the LPs. I tried hard, but I was never able to get rid of them completely, no matter how hard I cleaned the records. They were always there. They were more on the vintage records. This was getting a little annoying.

The next was that the speed of the turntable was not always the same so I could actually hear the songs slow down and speed up. Then I found that most 80s & 90s desi records were not well produced, so much so that even the center hole of the record were not in the center. This made the tone arm drift (left to right) , leading to the sound volume increasing and decreasing. And a lot of records were a little warped so the tonearm and the cartridge was going up and down this again was leading to sound volume and range changing continuously.
I also started clearly noticing that the Left and Right channels were not having the same volume level and range. Well I know now why old amps needed to have a Balance control.

A little reading let me to understand that over time the following parameters keep changing in the turntable and need periodic adjustments. You actually also have to have this setup properly to start with.

1)Cartridge Alignment ( Tracking Angle )
2)Azimuth
3)Vertical Tracking Force (VTF)
4)Zenith
5)Base Leveling etc.

There were long multi-page articles about setting up and using the turn table.
Then there were these products like alignment protractors, VTF gauges etc.
Even if I do all of the above perfectly , I knew , I will still get clicks and pops from the dust and any time someone walks by or taps the table that I have the Turntable on , I could hear it. I even tried a Valve AMP with the CA preamp to see if it improves the sound to make it worthwhile, well it did a little but not to the point I was expecting.

I never have to do any of the above for my CDs or FLAC files from my USB HDD and the music from them sound great. No Clicks or pops , no volume level drifts, no speed issues (even if they were, not noticeable by me). Then for digital music there is the convenience of having a few GB on a NAS or HDD and have any song play at anytime from my DLNA manager instead of manually loading the LPs. Well at least from the sound quality I was getting from LPs and TT, it was not worth the extra effort.

I thought that people who say that LPs sound better than CDs and Flacs, were smoking something or like everything nostalgic you feel that things were much better earlier (even though they were not). So I packed up the turntable and went back to the FLACs.


The Re-discovery , Realization and Appreciation.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

There was a nagging feeling for me that maybe I missed something and there is something to LPs and turntables. I thought maybe I got some of the components wrong like using an AV receiver instead of a stereo amp and using a separate preamp instead of an AMP with phono input. Maybe my Speakers were suited for HT and not for Stereo Music.

I hunted around and I got a vintage Denon PMA 480R amp with phono preamp. I hooked this up to the AKAI TT and ELAC and I could notice a sound improvement. It sounded louder and I could make out more detail, I knew I was on the right track. I had a EPOS M12i in my bedroom, I knew that EPOS was suited for music. I hooked up the EPOS to the Denon and the sound improved greatly but still I could not get rid of the speed and volume issues with the turntable so I requested the guys who sold me the AKAI ( Mohan Musicals Chennai ) for an upgrade. Many thanks to them they gave me a trade in to a Technics SL 5100 with a Shure M44-7 Cartridge with a brand new stylus.

With this setup I played Silsia and I must say IT BLEW ME AWAY. I don't know what it was. It was not the purity, I could still hear the clicks and pops, It was not the Freq Range, the tweeters and the sub-woofer in my Onkyo setup have much better range. It was something else altogether. It was PRESENSE. I could feel as if someone was playing in front of me. I tried other LPs and they were all the same, they all had a presence that the FLACS never had. I could for the first time understand the concept of the sound stage. This Vintage Turntable and amp with EPOS speakers were sounding better than my ELAC setup. This was actually more musical.

Digital music is clear and perfect but never real. LPs are REAL. I don't know weather it is in the recording , or the analog playback path, LPs have for the first time made me Feel the music (not the BASS thumping feel but Emotional Feel). It might not have the perfection of the digital but I now know why it appeals to so many. For the first time I felt that Amitabh bachchan was talking in front of me (Silsila LP). I could hear marvin gaye sing in my living room.

I will not call LPs better than CDs in terms of quality. I know from experience, for LPs to sound comparable to CDs you have to get so many things right. The gear should be matched, the cartridge should have exact alignments , levels etc. Once you have them its very easy to surpass the CD / FLAC quality. I guess that is the reason we can never have the ultimate TT no matter how much we are willing to spend, they can always improve something to get better sound.

I have started appreciating Music more than ever before. I can now see what the guys who are playing it are trying to convey. I now can see so many dimensions of music that I never could see , feel or understand.

I would defiantly say that even though you can hear Clicks Pops and noise,
LPs convey music Much Much better than CDs or Flacs any day.

Well isn't that what we all want ?
 

Thad E Ginathom

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I really didn't want to get into another OH YES IT IS --- OH NO IT ISN'T bargee on this thread, but when I see comments like
but those who have "tasted" vinyl won't be very comfortable switching to any other media
I just have to gently mention that some of us grew up with it. In fact, some of grew up with Shellac.

Nothing personal, abhraneel, someone had to say it, and it just happened to be you. I'm happy you're happy spinning your discs, whether they are black pastic, shiny-silver, or highly polished platters in a hard-disc enclosure. It is true that the actual spinning is a lot more fun with a gramophone record.

When the chips (or the stylus, maybe!) are down, it is the music that matters the most, although pleasure from setting up, tweaking, not to mention buying, is also valid
Gerry_the_Merry said:
I would rate the availability of music, the ability and opportunity to tweak, and the emotional connect as among the most important aspects of what influences personal preference.
Having a simple, consumer-type turntable, I have infinitely more tweaking possibilities in digital!

I often hear it said that digital music is lifeless, sterile. So often, I guess there must be something to it. I think I know the phenomenon, because I encountered it on an early "digitally recorded" album --- on LP! Yes, cold, lifeless: I spent a lot of money on a favourite symphony and only ever played it once or twice. I think there must be ways of misusing the technology, or perhaps it was too young when I bought that thing. Without emotional connect, there is no point to music!
On emotional connect, I have personally long gone past the stage of watching a disc magically spinning on the TT and contributing to an analog mood. I care about having scratch less LPs and Thad has said, keeping them that way. Ticks and Pops are indeed annoying.
, well, I confess that it still does something for me! Sadly, I cannot keep my LPs scratch free, so the next best thing is to digitise them: at least they won't get any worse.
 

jls001

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...i wish i had a vinyl player for my car also..
That was a good one!!!

My personal credo (and practice) in this matter is simple - use all three medium - namely, CD, vinyl and computer-based digital playout. Enjoy the best of three worlds. One gets tons of music on CD but may never get the same titles on vinyl. And hi-res is now legally available as downloads. I missed SACD, but would love to have player which is (at least) in the same class as my CDP, TT and PC.

Each have their clear strengths, each have their weaknesses. Understand what those are, enjoy the strengths, accept the weaknesses.

"My grandfather is taller than your grandfather" type of one-upmanship and constant sabre-rattling is not required for enjoyment of music.
 

jls001

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Having said the above, I must add that analog experience is the most involving, satisfying, and frustrating - sometimes all at once:)

There is nothing to tweak in a CD player unless one knows hard core electronics. PC playout has lots of tweakability. But TT playback NEEDS tweaking to get the best out of it.

The satisfaction of adjusting the tracking force, the antiskate, the azimuth, Vertical Tracking Angle, Null Points, Overhang, etc and hearing much sweeter sounding music when all things fall in their rightful place, or the wonder of trying out different cartridges and hearing subtle and not-so-subtle differences in sonic presentations, the pain of breaking one's costliest diamond, the fun of tweaking impedance loading, or capacitive loading - are what makes the analog pursuit so worthwhile.

Or the joy of crafting one's own arm board, or plinth, or repairing a tonearm!

Or the ecstasy of discovering that the old LP that one bought is a gem.

Did I mention the sound?
 

Thad E Ginathom

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The ecstasy of finding that the old LP one bought, that looked scratched to hell, is actually quite playable :)

Of course, the opposite can happen too.

But who ever said that CDs were fault free? Oh, wait, right.... the people selling us CDs! That certainly turned out to be an exaggeration, to put it mildly. Then they said that they were indestructible --- and didn't a lot of the early ones fall apart?
 

ranjeetrain

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Those who dismiss digital as having no emotional connect should see how much time people spend organizing their digital collection. Searching for artwork, filing in correct folder, reorganizing and re-filing, and then reorganizing and re-filing. Endless hours doing A-B between 3 versions of the same track as to which one sounds the best. Tweaking every setting to let the DAC receive absolutely the unaltered data.

People who think there is no emotion connection in digital, well, I'll just leave them with their belief in their analog world which is apparently full of emotions ;)
 

gobble

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Well I am a digital only person whose heart is set on Vinyl. To me Vinyl is always better than digital - it is a no contest for any half decent setup. But I turned my back on it because the kinda music I listen to is not available Analog. Hence I would rather spend that 1 lac that would have gone into buying a TT+phono+cart+tonearm+cable, on upgrading to a better cd transport than have vinyl just to listen to music that will ultimately be only a foot tapping and groovy distraction from my main pursuit and taste.

Sad but better to keep one toehold in reality of the music industry and maximize my investment.

--G0bble
 
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