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video resolution - 1080p upscaling or 1080p ?

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sgmane

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Even though this query relates to all the required sources for video, i give in this thread, because our final viewing is in TV. (If iam right?)

TV:
HDTV can accept 1080p as input signal. This again is in format 1080p/60 format. So it displays in 1080p in 60 frames-per-second.(30 frames displayed twice per second)

DVD:
Standard DVD players is not a high resolution format.

My query:
I understand the blu-ray and HD-DVD discs are 1080p/24 format. (after the advent of blu-ray and HD-DVD discs)

1. So if my HDTV is only 1080p/60 i can only view at this format, even though
my blu-ray and HD-DVD discs are in 1080p/24? Is there any significance in the image displayed in HDTV with the difference in format?

2. So my DVD should also be in 1080p upscaling atleast to get into 1080p/60 in my HDTV or HDTV ready? I also think it will no way reproduce the 1080p/24 in the images?

3. So i need to have a HD DVD player to get the 1080p output in my HDTV?
(If so, then even my AVR should also be 1080p irrespective of the format ie., 60 or 24?)

4. How will i know the DVD discs are recorded in HD format? (means in 1080p/24 or 1080p/60)? (Is any available in India?)

5. Any brands/models with full HDTV, AVR, DVD player in VFM- with good reviews? - please provide me the link. I can plan to buy accordingly. (Iam looking only for VFM and not in high range)

Thanks.
 

venkatcr

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sgmane said:
1. So if my HDTV is only 1080p/60 I can only view at this format, even though my blu-ray and HD-DVD discs are in 1080p/24? Is there any significance in the image displayed in HDTV with the difference in format?

Sgmane, a few pointers to correct use of termonology.

1080p/60 or 1080p/24 are not formats. It is a combination of two different technologies put together for simplicity.

The term '1080p' is the capability of a device to progressivel scan and upscale an image to a resolution 1080 pixels on a screen that has a screen resolution of 1920x1080 pixels. The terms 24 or 60 refer to frames per second or FPS or fps. This is the speed at which the frames of a movie is shown on the screen. What is a frame, and how does a film show motion? It does this by shooting a series of still pictures that have small changes in the players physical state. For example, if a man is walking, his body movement is captured by a series of still pictures that capture the various positions of his legs, arms and other parts of his body. Each of this still picture is a frame. These frames are then projected at the rate of 24 frames per second (fps) on to a screen. The human eye perceives this as motion.Actually the human eye can perceive motion at 16 frames a second, but 24fps was adopted for various historical reasons when the motion picture camera was invented and accepted by the producers.

The '60' is actually a misnomer as it is not frames per second but rather fields per second followed by NTSC. NTSC uses a frame consisting of 486 horizontal lines in the active area and a frame rate of 29.97 frames per second (fps). The frame is interlaced, meaning it's composed of two individual fields with a field rate of 59.94fps.

What has a TV got to do with frames per second? Actually very little excepting for the fact that a TV with a higher frequency can switch back to zero or absolute black state of its pixels faster. The quicker a TV can do this, the faster it will be able to change and display frames. All TVs can easily display 24 frames or more with ease.

sgmane said:
2. So my DVD should also be in 1080p upscaling at least to get into 1080p/60 in my HDTV or HDTV ready? I also think it will no way reproduce the 1080p/24 in the images?

Again, let me remove some confusion. A TV that has a native resolution of 1920 by 1080 and can accpet 1080p signals is called a FullHD TV. A TV that has a resolution of 1920 by 768 is called a HDReady TV. This TV cannot display 1080p signals even if can accept 1080p signals.

As I have explained elsewhere, you need a minimum size of 42 inches to fully appreciate FullHD TV. Anything less than that you will not be able to differentiate between a 620p signal and a 1080p signal.

Yes, to display a 1080p signal you need a DVD Player that can upscale to that resolution. And most DVD players can display images at 24 fps. If they can handle 60 fields per second (30 fps) (NTSC standard) they can certainly handle 24 fps.

sgmane said:
3. So I need to have a HD DVD player to get the 1080p output in my HDTV? (If so, then even my AVR should also be 1080p irrespective of the format ie., 60 or 24?)

Let me rephrase your question - 'I need a High Definition DVD player to get 1080p output on my FullHD TV'. There are multiple options available.

1. Get a Blu-Ray player and play Blu-Ray discs. Just ensure that the player can upscale standard definition DVD to 1080p.
2. Get a DVD player that can upscale upto 1080p
3. Get a standard DVD Player and an AVR that can upscale to 1080p.

sgmane said:
4. How will i know the DVD discs are recorded in HD format? (means in 1080p/24 or 1080p/60)? (Is any available in India?)

DVD discs are NOT recorded in '1080' formats. They are recorded in what are called CODECS. A full movie that takes about 100GB to at times 1 Terabyte is it's original formats. Codecs are mathematical routines that are used to compress 100GB to some 4.7 GB. In Blu-Ray, similar codecs are used to compress 100GB to some 25GB.

Some of the popular Codecs are: :
  • MPEG-2 - used for SD DVDs. An enhanced version is used for HD recordings.
  • MPEG-4 AVC - part of the MPEG-4 standard also known as H.264 (High Profile and Main Profile).
  • SMPTE VC-1 - standard based on Microsoft's Windows Media Video (WMV) technology.

Even though many formats are available, most DVDs use either 4:3 or anamorphic 16:9 aspect ratio MPEG-2 video, stored at a resolution of 720?480 (NTSC) or 720?576 (PAL) at 29.97 or 25 FPS. The conversion of these formats to 1080p resolution is called upscaling and is done by either the DVD Player or the AVR.

Blu-Ray discs also support am enhanced version of MPEG-2 as well as H.264/AVC, and SMPTE VC-1 in addition to all the three mentioned above.

The only thing you can see on a DVD is whether it is NTSC or PAL. The rest is handled by the player.

sgmane said:
5. Any brands/models with full HDTV, AVR, DVD player in VFM- with good reviews? - please provide me the link. I can plan to buy accordingly. (Iam looking only for VFM and not in high range)

What is the budget you are looking for?


Cheers
 

Kapz

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Oct 5, 2008
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Hi Venkat,

Thanks for the info. I have a query about Sony PS3. The website says it can play m2ts and mpeg2 AVC files. The questions I have is,

1. If i demux .mkv files to m2ts or avchd, will there be any loss in video quality?
2. Will the demuxed file have he native audio tracks i.e. DD 5.1 or DTS which was there in the original file?

The upgraded firmware 2.30 is expected to play h.264 format but there is no solid information available. Can you help?

Thanks
 

anooj30299301

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Aug 14, 2008
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Hyderabad, India.
Hi Kapz,

It should, while I just plan to own one soon(waiitng for 80gb version), you can find the query answered from AVS forum->home theater gaming=>playstation.

Why stick with 2.30 firmware when people are enjoying 2.50. Is it becaise of somehting related to homebrew hack being eradicated ? hmmm...:)
 

Teja

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Nov 12, 2007
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Visakhapatnam / Chicago
1. If i demux .mkv files to m2ts or avchd, will there be any loss in video quality?
2. Will the demuxed file have he native audio tracks i.e. DD 5.1 or DTS which was there in the original file?

The upgraded firmware 2.30 is expected to play h.264 format but there is no solid information available. Can you help?

Thanks

1. If you just demux the mkv and remux into a different container (like DivX or VOB) there will be no loss of quality in either audio or video. However, if you re-encode the content then you may experience quality loss depending on the re-encode settings.

2. Demux just splits your video, audio & subtitles into separate files - all are original content. So if you have a mkv with 720p video, a DD5.1 audio and a DD2.0 audio, and a three subtitles (say English, French & Spanish), after demux you will end up with 6 files total - one for video, two for audio and 3 for subtitles.

Lots of info on the web. Google it up.

Cheers
Teja
 

sgmane

Active Member
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Thanks venkatcr for your inputs.

5. Any brands/models with full HDTV, AVR, DVD player in VFM- with good reviews? - please provide me the link. I can plan to buy accordingly. (Iam looking only for VFM and not in high range)

For the above, iam right now ruling out full HDTV. Can you specify the other two (AVR, DVD player). Range from the lowest to the mid level (may be upto 50K). Looking only for VFM and not hifi range.

thanks
 

venkatcr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
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Location
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Any brands/models with full HDTV, AVR, DVD player in VFM- with good reviews? - please provide me the link. I can plan to buy accordingly. (Iam looking only for VFM and not in high range)

Since you have ruled out FullHD, you have to look for TVs from Samsung, Pioneer and Panasonic. There are a number of other threads where TVs have beem discussed in great detail. Please browse through them. You will be able to get a few models that you can audition.

For the above, iam right now ruling out full HDTV. Can you specify the other two (AVR, DVD player). Range from the lowest to the mid level (may be upto 50K). Looking only for VFM and not hifi range.

Regarding AVT, in some other threads we came across a peculiar issue with AVRs. Those that say 'HDMI pass through' do not process any audio that comes in through HDMI. We must look for AVR that do process audio through HDMI. Please look for this carefully and get the dealer to demonstrate this.

Some of the AVR models you must look for are Denon 2309, Onkyo 606, Yamaha 863. There must be a matching model in Marantz.

Regarding DVD Player, a really good VFM is Pioneer 610. Available at 6K, it is upscales to 1080p, and plays SACD, DVD-A, DIVX, etc. Please go through the following threads that have hugely detailed postings.

http://www.hifivision.com/dvd-players-dvd-hard-disk-recorders/1692-best-dvd-player-iwth-usb.html

http://www.hifivision.com/dvd-players-dvd-hard-disk-recorders/2431-dvd-player-5-6-k.html

http://www.hifivision.com/dvd-players-dvd-hard-disk-recorders/2109-best-dvd-player-upscaling.html

Cheers
 
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