We hear but do we listen

[ssf]

An interesting mail that I received today which I though I will share with this forum. Please read the mail before going through the linked articles.

Pearls Before Breakfast - washingtonpost.com

Famous Violinist Joshua Bell Plays At Metro Station

Audio of Joshua Bell's Full Metro Performance

ARE WE MISSING SOMETHING ?



A man sat at metro station in Washington DC and started to play the violin; it was a cold January morning. He played six Bach pieces for about 45 minutes. During that time, since it was rush hour, it was calculated that thousands of people were through the station, most of them on their way to work.



Three mistakes went by and a middle aged man noticed there was musician playing. He slowed his pace and stopped for a few seconds and then hurried up to meet his schedule



A minute later, the violinist received his first dollar tip; a woman threw the money in the till and without stopping continued to walk.



A few minutes later, someone leaned against the wall to listen to him, but the man looked at his watch and started to walk again. Clearly he was late for work



The one who paid the most attention was a three year old boy. His mother tagged him along, hurried but the kid stopped to look at the violinist. Finally the mother pushed hard and the child continued to walk turning his head all the time. This action was repeated by several other children. All the parents, without exception, forced them to move on.



In the 45 minutes the musician played, only six people stopped and stayed for a while. About 20 gave him money but continued to walk their normal pace. He collected $32. When he finished playing and silence took over, no one noticed it. No one applauded, nor was there any recognition.



Noone knew this but the violinist was Joshua Bell, one of the best musicians in the world. He played one of the intricate pieces ever written with a violin worth 3.5 million dollars



Two days before his playing in the subway, Joshua Bell sold out at a theater in Boston and the seats average $100.



This is a real story. Joshua Bell playing incognito in the metro station was organized by the Washington Post as part of a social experiment about perception , taste and priorities of people. The outlines were: in a commonplace environment at an inappropriate hour; Do we perceive beauty ? Do we stop to appreciate it ? Do we recognize the talent in an unexpected context ?



One of the possible conclusions from the experience could be. If we do not have a moment to stop and listen to one of the best musicians in the world playing the best music ever written, how many other things are we missing ?

 

[saketb]

Rightly said.

 

[ajay124]

The Essential Joshua Bell 2CD set at Rhythm House for 499.
The Essential Joshua Bell Rhythm House | Buy Online Music CD

Joshua Bell's 3.5 million dollar violin is a Stradivarius, made by Antonio Stradivari in 1731.

But the God of violinists is David Oistrakh. I have not heard any violinist who could even come close to his divine magic.

David Oistrakh - Complete EMI Recordings: David Oistrakh: Amazon.co.uk: Music

YouTube - ‪Joshua Bell plays Beethoven (1/5)‬‏
YouTube - ‪David Oistrakh Beethoven Violin Concerto Mvt. 1 Part 1‬‏

 

[ssf]

Beautiful music, Ajay. Please do go though the Washington post thread if you have not already. Quite insightful and at places, humorous too.

On more than a few occasions have I been guilty of hearing music without listening to it, hearing my electronics when all the while I should have been listening to the music. I could of course try and justify this by saying that my electronics simply refuses to disappear, but that is a discussion best left to my HT thread. :lol:

 

[ajay124]

ssf
Beautiful music yes! But please 'listen' and not 'hear' or even 'watch' the You Tube videos. Especially from the 3.5 - 9.3 minutes when Bell/Oistrakh make their entry. For me David Oistrakh is a genius and Joshua Bell a very good violinist. 'Listen' preferably with eyes closed to what both do with Beethoven's incredible music.

 

[Bluu]

Agreed! I was waiting with bated breath for Oistrakh to start playing and when he did, it was totally worth it! I did not close my eyes though; enjoyed watching the expression on his face as he played.

 

[ajay124]

Jascha Heifetz. Almost as good as Oistrakh. Playing the same music.
YouTube - ‪Jascha Heifetz, Beethoven Violin Concerto In D, Op 61, 1st mtv (Part 1)‬‏

 

[ssf]

ssf
Beautiful music yes! But please 'listen' and not 'hear' or even 'watch' the You Tube videos. Especially from the 3.5 - 9.3 minutes when Bell/Oistrakh make their entry. For me David Oistrakh is a genius and Joshua Bell a very good violinist. 'Listen' preferably with eyes closed to what both do with Beethoven's incredible music.

Ajay,

This is getting interesting !!!

I listened to Joshua and Oistrakh bar by bar, pausing after each completed bar and listening to the other. Again, beautiful music but listen as hard as I could but could not make out big differences between the two. I got the impressing that Joshua was trying to play it softer while Oistrakh was going full steam but this impression I got not so much from listening as from seeing.

But then there is the listening with the ear and listening with the heart.

It would be nice if you could give your opinion on the two pieces and the differences between them so that I will know what to look for.

But then again, if we take the analysis too far, we will once again miss all the wonderful music.

 

[ajay124]

ssf

My view would be biased as I am an unabashed fan of David Oistrakh. His playing has richness, maturity, beauty, soul. An old world charm. Some of these qualities are present in Joshua Bell's performance, but ultimately it is not the Beethoven I want to listen to.

I have music by several great violinists. Yehudi Menuhin, Itzhak Perlman, Isaac Stern, Pinchas Zukerman, Arthur Grimaux. But over the years I have been streamlining my library, and keeping only the music which affects me strongly. Which means goodbye to rock and jazz. And also a lot of classical music.

When I want to listen to a violin sonata or a concerto, I no longer select a CD because it is a Beethoven, Brahms, Bach or Mozart. I pull out a CD because it is a David Oistrakh or Jascha Heifetz. I rarely listen to any other violinist. Merely the way I look at it. I am sure there are many fans who prefer Menuhin, Perlman, Stern or Joshua Bell to Oistrakh or Heifetz.

Felix Mendelssohn Violin Concerto in E Minor. One of the best and most popular violin concertos of all times.

YouTube - ‪Heifetz: Mendelssohn Violin Concerto E Minor (Op. 64) - 1st Movement‬‏

 

[ssf]

Ajay,

Thanks for the Felix Mendelssohn Violin Concerto in E Minor. Enjoyed it. I am a novice as far a classical music is concerned and I don't have favourites as of now. I think the ability to differentiate musical pieces will come with time and experience. Till then I will simply enjoy the music. I am in no hurry to understand.

I have a feeling that you might not be much into Tenors but might know of a few good ones. If you do, could you please point them to me.

Some music that I enjoy listening to.

YouTube - ‪The Most Beautiful Opera Overtures‬‏

YouTube - ‪Andrea Bocelli & Sarah Brightman - Time To Say Goodbye‬‏

YouTube - ‪Placido Domingo - El condor pasa‬‏

 

[venkatcr]

The experiment conducted by Washington Post does not prove anything one way or the other.

if you look at the videos, more than 90% of the 1067 people who passed by Joshua are governments servants. How many of these would have any interest in classical music?

You first have to like classical music, understand it deeply, and have heard it enough times to be able to identify the nuances. After that, it takes a couple of more years, I would say, of listening to particular artists to be able to identify their rendering. Take the case of Joshua and David Oistrakh playing the same Beethoven movement. I bet if you blindfold a person and played both tracks, 99% of the people will not be able to differentiate. In my case I found Joshua more to my liking, maybe because I could see and feel his intensity as he was playing. David was more professional, and more frigid at the same time.

Let Washington Post try a similar experiment with, say, the Beatles and they will have a riot on their hand. If they try something like this with, say, Katie Meluah, the reaction will be moderate. Why, because it is easier for us to identify human voices as each voice has a distinctly different tone that does not need much effort to identify.

When you are playing an instrument, each artist tries to match the original notes as much as possible. It is only a few who can, after earning a reputation, introduce variations that become their unique style. And, as a listener, you have to follow the artist's professional life ardently to be able to identify the style. Let us say we hear The London Symphony playing Beethoven's 5th twice. Can we identify the conductor with our eyes closed? I dare say it will be very difficult, if not impossible, for one does not have a passion for the music.

Cheers

 

[ssf]

Valid points.

In the second link that I have posted, people have discussed this to some extent.

But I was thinking on a slightly different line. By not being able to differentiate David Oistrakh from Joshua Bell, have I missed something. By not being able to recognise and appreciate good music, I think I have.

Which is why I wanted to know from my friend Ajay, what he saw in David Oistrakh's rendition that I did not.

Which begs the question, what is good music and how does one recognise it. I could say that good music is what I like and that it is personal but something is telling me that it is not as simple as that. Does being able to play fast make it good ? Does a piece being difficult to play make it good ? Is complex music good music ? I have a lot more questions for which I don't have answers. :lol:

 

[longshanks]

I like Frank Peter Zimmermann,he is playing Tchaikovsky(One of my fav composers).

YouTube - ‪TCHAIKOVSKY Violin Concerto 1st mov Frank Peter Zimmermann & Lorin Maazel/BRSO (1/2)‬‏

I like L Subramaniam.

YouTube - ‪Conversation -Subramaniam, Grappelli‬‏

 

[ajay124]

ssf

what is good music and how does one recognise it?

Practise! The more you listen to music ALONE, the more easily you can differentiate between the great, the good, the mediocre and the really aweful.

And you have to keep moving up the ladder. Different strokes for different folks, but for me the steps on the ladder were:

Pop
Rock
R&B
Soul
Jazz
Western Classical

I have not heard the Beatles for close to 10-15 years now. Recently I made a 24 song anthology from a friend who is a classic rock fan. I played it late night with a cold beer. I was not expecting it or even willing to admit it, but the songs I played were really good. Catchy, rhythmic, clean, original. At least some of the hype is well deserved!

I have always enjoyed listening to Simon & Garfunkel. Find them better than most other bands. When I want nostalgia (school years nostalgia) I listen to S&G, Abba, Carpenters, Beegees, Elvis Presley, Cliff Richard, Neil Diamond, Paul Anka, Rod Stewart.... .Along with the Beatles, Queen and Eagles, this was the music which pulled me away from hindi film songs and introduced me to 'western' music 35 years ago.

 

[venkatcr]

Which begs the question, what is good music and how does one recognise it. I could say that good music is what I like and that it is personal but something is telling me that it is not as simple as that.

There are two ways of listening to music. One; as a professional where you know the ragas, or it's western equivalent intimately. The problem with this type of listening is much like auditioning equipment. You look for mistakes and you do not enjoy the music.

Two: as an amateur. In this I would say you are in two states. The first time you hear a music - you like it or hate it, but do not pay much attention either way. The second is where the music becomes a part of your life and you have to hear it again and again. When you do this, you get so close to the music that errors, if any, are actually things that you find beautiful. When you hear someone sing/play the same music, you can immediately understand the differences.

For me, I have to like a song or music, the first time I hear it. I then hear i a few times, and if I take a liking, I hear it so many times that it becomes a part of my skin. At the same time, I keep myself open to listen to new music and new artists. I discovered a huge number of artists this way.

That, in my mind, is the way to enjoy music. You should get goose pimples when you listen to the music. You should start humming along. Your feet should tap, or best, you should get up and take a few dancing steps. A few weeks ago, I was driving alone on a highway. I just played the songs I like and screamed my head off alongwith it.

Cheers

 

[vjc]

ssf

what is good music and how does one recognise it?

Practise! The more you listen to music ALONE, the more easily you can differentiate between the great, the good, the mediocre and the really aweful.

And you have to keep moving up the ladder. Different strokes for different folks, but for me the steps on the ladder were:

Pop
Rock
R&B
Soul
Jazz
Western Classical

.......

Music is personal taste. Whatever you apreciate, that is what you find best for you.Some like classical music, some like folk , some rock etc.. some people value silence as the ultimate of music and so on. (Recall 'Sound of silence..' sung by Simon and Garfunkle). You cannot claim one is superior to other but respect other's choice of music. An analogy is like everyone apreciate beautiful ladies. But that does not break your attachment with your loved one. You may never say that the Miss India is better than my loved one. If it does, then your love was hypocratic. This love can be compared to the music that you like.But that does not prevent listening to other music also.( I am not sure whether I conveyed the idea in the analogy

Personally I like 'Jean Luc Ponty' as the best violinist (Jazz) who creates his own music and play with variety of improvisation. But I also apreciates those violinist who play in the Classical orchestra as well as Classic music itself. To me these violinists in the Orchestra are just artists who plays somebody's (e.g. Bach) creation under the direction of some music conductor. But I never say that Jazz music is better than Classical Music or vice versa.

vjc

 

[saran]

Those days have gone when I really used to feel the music and tap my feet, nowadays most people are concerned about how the music sounds rather then listening to them, 5 years back I was listening to different kinds of music enjoying the lyrics with an old set of portable player and headphones and a small aiwa stereo system from which I enjoyed all the cassetes and Cd's I had, but after getting into this HiFI world (though not an Audiophile),Everything has changed, I try to listen to the quality of the music and how it sounds rather then Listening and enjoying it, I am back on track now After trying numerous head phones and earphone and speakers buying and selling I got So tired. now I have a basic set of headphones and a sansa fuze player ,and a small setup at home to enjoy music.

 

[xiro]

Witness music and move on with music being part of you, I would suggest.

Regards ....

 

[ajay124]

vjc

I have written "but for me the steps on the ladder were"

I did not mean to suggest that jazz is better than rock, or classical is better than jazz. I am sorry if I gave that impression. What I meant was that I like jazz better than rock, and classical better than jazz.

When I listen to a piano, flute or saxophone in rock music, I feel they have been put there for effect. They are smooth. They have a touch of class. The rock band is showing off its progressive credentials. But these instruments are used as a filler, as a background, to the guitars, drums and vocals. They sound nice but there is less depth and innovation involved in the playing as compared to jazz. They are usually played by faceless' musicians in the background, while the rock stars remain solidly in the foreground.

Until last year, I was still buying jazz CDs, although I was not listening to them. I bought the CDs because I discovered excellent online sites like Rhythm House and Amazon. They had all the great jazz I used to look for but could never find in the past. Now it was available and I bought it.

But I did not play any of the CDs more than once or twice. I used to be very fond of Duke Ellington, Thelonious Monk, Bud Powell, Oscar Peterson and Bill Evans. But in recent times rather than listening to the composers, I try to 'listen' to classical pianists like Sviatoslav Richter, Vladimir Horowitz, Emil Gilels, Arthur Rubinstein, Freidrich Gulda, Vladimir Ashkenazy, Murray Perahia, Martha Argerich, Mitsuko Uchida, Rosalyn Tureck..... And I found that I enjoyed listening to them much more than to the jazz pianists. I prefer the piano compositions of Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms, Schumann, Prokofiev etc. to those of the jazz composers. For me it was not Roll Over Beethoven. But Roll Over Duke. And Duke Ellington was (for me) the best jazz composer and pianist.

Let's listen to a famous classical and jazz composition, played by a great classical and jazz pianist. It's not about who is better, but who we ( as listeners ) like better.

‪Murray Perahia plays Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata 3rd Movement [HQ]‬‏ - YouTube
‪Duke Ellington - Solitude‬‏ - YouTube

 

[moktan]

there are people like Ajay, whose music listening faculties have highly evolved over the years...
however doesn't the footage of this experiment also show a young kid, instinctively being drawn to the sound even as his mother tries to drag him away to wherever they are supposed to be going...
the two may seem like a paradox...but i really don't think so...
people who retain that childlike sense of wonder are perhaps more receptive to the idea of artistic exploration-be it painting or music or anything else- and it is perhaps those initial steps that lead to the kind of places that people like Ajay etc have reached...
just my two pence..