We hear but do we listen

[ssf]

I have seen and understood dedication, passion, maturity, simplicity and reasoning in the discussions had on the subject and I thank you all for participating.

The Washington Post article, if nothing else has made me think about music. For that I think I should be grateful.

For those interested in reading about discussions on music could also take a peek at a very old thread which I chanced upon, which also gives invaluable insights into music.

http://www.hifivision.com/music/6854-r-rehman-great.html

Regards,

Sunil

 

[venkatcr]

Ajay, thought you might be interested in this.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=467128533&pf_rd_i=468294]

17 CDs of David at around 3K. Good price.

Cheers

 

[ajay124]

venkatcr

Thanks. I am aware of this set and have thought of buying it many times. Until about a month ago it was priced at 28 pounds on Amazon but price has gradually been increased to 37.93 pounds. Amazon prices for many cds change significantly in a short period of time. They probably have sophisticated systems for monitoring demand and supply, and prices change accordingly.

I add every cd I am potentially interested in, to my wishlist on both the Amazon US and UK sites. I wait for a big dip in prices (it happens if one is patient) and I buy immediately when it happens. In the meantime I reasearch the cds.

Most of the time the information provided by Amazon is very basic. For the Oistrakh set they have mentioned the title of the work and the artists, but they have not even mentioned the composer! Online sites and CD covers rarely give the buyer easy to access information about when the recordings were made, and how many times they have been remastered. For historical recordings like the Oistrakh set, some of the recordings would be stereo while others would be monoaural. Some of the stereo recordings may have endured heavy filtering and compression and may sound boxy and one dimensional when played on a revealing system.

A box set is like a buffet and buying a single cd is akin to ordering a-la-carte! For a single cd it may take a few minutes or hours to discover all the relevant information. For a 17 CD set like Oistrakh it may take several months to dig out the relevant information. I have been researching this set for a long time. I have not bought it because I have most of these works in my library. Some performed by Oistrakh and some by other artists. For someone who does not have the individual works, a box set like this one is a great oppurtunity for buying good music at budget prices. But one should be prepared for varying sound quality from cd to cd.

More information about this set:
Presto Classical - David Oistrakh - The Complete EMI Recordings - EMI: 2147122
David Oistrakh complete EMI recordings - 17 CD set
Brilliant Classics | Release
David Oistrakh: The Complete EMI Recordings Reviews

 

[hydra]

Relevant:

Julian Treasure: 5 ways to listen better | Video on TED.com

 

[ssf]

Interesting talk.

Interesting comments too.

1 day ago: Bringing back music programs to all elementary schools would do a lot to help attune a child to that skill. Also its something that is much easier to learn as you are learning a language (your first or fifth). Music and sound making (aka noise to adults) are the very first langage of all children. As we learn to "tune out" as adults, we tend to lose our sense of child like curiousness, and natural source of empathy. As a side note- when I see parents of young children in the playground, on their smart phones, not engaging in the moment, I see a generation that is tragically crippled from the start. These same children will be engaged with the same level of distraction in a few years time. It's good to have this conversation now. I wonder if anyone is listening?

Very similar to what Moktan was saying.

however doesn't the footage of this experiment also show a young kid, instinctively being drawn to the sound even as his mother tries to drag him away to wherever they are supposed to be going...
the two may seem like a paradox...but i really don't think so...
people who retain that childlike sense of wonder are perhaps more receptive to the idea of artistic exploration-be it painting or music or anything else- and it is perhaps those initial steps that lead to the kind of places that people like Ajay etc have reached...
just my two pence..

I am more of a SOMA RASA kind of guy though and I am always aware of the fact that I tune out a lot of conversations that bore me, when and not when under the influence.

I should listen more !!!


"When I don't like a piece of music, I make a point of listening to it more closely

Florent Schmitt

 

[ajay124]

Western classical music is largely male-centric with very few women musicians at the top. Is it because the ladies are less talented? Or because they find it more difficult to break into the old boys club? Probably the latter.

Women play music differently from men. Perhaps their music lives in a mysterious realm which is not completely accessible to men. Their approach is more gentle, romantic and dreamy. Where as their male counterparts adopt a more direct and aggressive approach. True or a generalisation?

Listening to the same music being performed by a famous female and male pianist would be an interesting experiment in 'listening'. The differences may be obvious or they may be subtle, but I believe they will always be there.

Bach's Toccata in C Minor

Glenn Gould
‪J. S. Bach - Toccata for Clavier in C minor BWV 911 (2/2) - Glenn Gould‬‏ - YouTube
Angela Hewitt
‪A. Hewitt plays Bach Toccata in C Minor, BWV 911 (2/2)‬‏ - YouTube

My vote goes to the Angela Hewitt version

 

[ajay124]

I will begin with a disclaimer. About my boundless ignorance. And boundless audacity in venturing an opinion. A casual and supremely ignorant listener like me has zero credentials for pontificating about something as complex as the music of J.S.Bach, or the virtuosity of masters like Gould and Hewitt. Folks like us can simply post uninformed opinions and casual impressions. Since most of the audience for classical music is ignorant like us, I guess we are allowed a little bit of leeway. Mediocrities of the world! I absolve you.

So here goes:

The Angela Hewitt version does not begin as engagingly as the Glenn Gould version, but it gradually envelopes you into it's moody and seductive charm. It pauses. It reflects. It meanders into areas of silence and peace. Where as (to my ears) the Glenn Gould version is relentless. It goes hammer and tongs on the attack. It dose not allow you to enter into it's mysteries. There is a strong personality at work. Perhaps the creator (Johann Sebastian Bach) is being asked to 'sit back and enjoy the ride' and the interpreter (Glenn Gould) is driving on a formula one race track. Absolutely incredible technical virtuosity. But maybe a little cold and mechanical?

 

[cricfansd]

Regarding female violinists, I have personally heard Hillary Hahn and Victoria Mullova and they are phenomenal.
Hillary Hahn's Bach concerto is highly recommended
Hilary Hahn plays Bach Violin Concertos
For Mullova I like all of her discs but notably her recording of Vivaldi with Il Giordion Armanico
Onyx CDs by Viktoria Mullova

For cellists, I actually I like the passionate playing of Jacqueline Dupre.
I am sure you have heard of her 6 discs recording of "Les introuvables"
Somehow I like female violinsts more, may be due to their nimble fingers.

 

[ssf]

Women play music differently from men. Perhaps their music lives in a mysterious realm which is not completely accessible to men. Their approach is more gentle, romantic and dreamy. Where as their male counterparts adopt a more direct and aggressive approach. True or a generalisation?

The Angela Hewitt version does not begin as engagingly as the Glenn Gould version, but it gradually envelopes you into it's moody and seductive charm. It pauses. It reflects. It meanders into areas of silence and peace. Where as (to my ears) the Glenn Gould version is relentless. It goes hammer and tongs on the attack. It dose not allow you to enter into it's mysteries. There is a strong personality at work. Perhaps the creator (Johann Sebastian Bach) is being asked to 'sit back and enjoy the ride' and the interpreter (Glenn Gould) is driving on a formula one race track. Absolutely incredible technical virtuosity. But maybe a little cold and mechanical?
__________________

Ajayji, you could not be more wrong.

Before I get into the intricacies of proving how wrong you are, let me place my credentials on the table.

I have listened to a lot of classical music over a period of 45 years. 2 or 3 to be exact. From the top of my head, I can name two composers whom I consider the best there is.

1. J.S. Bach
2. Sebastian Bach

I have listened to not less than 4 of their compositions and hence I am at a better position to judge classical compositions and music than your kind self.

Now that I have made my expertise known, let me take the liberty to analyse the two piano pieces that has been put up for analysis / scrutiny.

Seeing that I was agreeing to posts pointing out that for appreciating music one needs to be childish, um, childlike, I was trying to see the pieces from a child's perspective.

The piece from Glenn Gould would probably make the children stand up and dance to the beautiful, fast and powerful tempo.

The piece from Angela Hewitt would probably keep them seated in their places intently listening to the beautiful music with rapt attention maybe with a couple of dropped jaws.

But, I have to say, women don't pussyfoot when it comes to playing the piano . Why because,

‪Rachmaninoff Concerto No1 minus orchestra‬‏ - YouTube

* It's always fun to pull a friends leg on a day considered to be a friendship day although I am of the opinion that such a day was envisaged by capitalists with an intention of robbing a commoner like me of my daily bread.

 

[indiglo]

thanks, that was a great & true article We hear but do we listen! nice reading!

 

[ajay124]

Regarding female violinists, I have personally heard Hillary Hahn and Victoria Mullova and they are phenomenal.
Hillary Hahn's Bach concerto is highly recommended
Hilary Hahn plays Bach Violin Concertos
For Mullova I like all of her discs but notably her recording of Vivaldi with Il Giordion Armanico
Onyx CDs by Viktoria Mullova

For cellists, I actually I like the passionate playing of Jacqueline Dupre.
I am sure you have heard of her 6 discs recording of "Les introuvables"
Somehow I like female violinsts more, may be due to their nimble fingers.

cricfansd

It is a pleasure to come across a person who is familiar with the work of Jacquelin Du Pre. There are very few great practitioners of the cello, and she was one of the best. It was terribly sad that at the age of 26, her career was cut short by multiple sclerosis. She could no longer play as she gradually lost the ability to touch and sense objects.

The British film Hilary and Jackie was based on a book written by her sister Hilary. Her famous husband Daniel Barenboim and mentor Mstislav Rostropovich. were not happy with the way the film presented her life. But the controversy involving world famous musicians only served to make the film a hit.

EMI Masters - Cello concerto / Sea Pictures: Jacqueline du Pre, Edward Elgar, Janet Baker: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Jacqueline Du Pre: The Complete EMI Recordings: Jacqueline Du Pre: Amazon.co.uk: Music

Beethoven - Piano Trios; Cello Sonatas; Violin Sonatas: Ludwig Van Beethoven: Amazon.co.uk: Music

*Incidentally the price of the David Oistrakh 17 CD set on Amazon, had risen from 28 pounds to 38 pounds. It is now back at 28 pounds. I ordered the set a few days ago and it worked out to 23.73 pounds after vat deduction. The price is inclusive of free shipping through Royal Mail. At this price 17 CD's of glorious music is truly manna from heaven.

David Oistrakh - Complete EMI Recordings: David Oistrakh: Amazon.co.uk: Music

David Oistrakh: The Complete Recordings [Box Set] - David Oistrakh | AllMusic

The Jascha Heifetz 6CD set released by Sony classical is in the same league. I got it about a fortnight back. I usually play these CD's after 11 o clock at night, when the night is still and the world is sleeping. After a few hearings, I find them to be perhaps the best music I have ever come across.

Jascha Heifetz Plays Great Violin Concertos - Sony Classical Masters: Jascha Heifetz: Amazon.co.uk: Music

 

[cricfansd]

Hi Ajay,

I think some credit for liking Dupre goes to my roommate in grad school. We always wondered what could have happened if Jacqueline Dupre had lived a full life. Actually I hate YoYo Ma for using the same Stradivarius cello
One good thing I found in US is the wonderful classical collection in public libraries. Typically chamber music is the most popular genre for classical. Some of the great recordings I like are
Amazon.com: Beethoven: The String Quartets: Ludwig van Beethoven, Emerson String Quartet: Music
Amazon.com: Bela Bartok: The 6 String Quartets - Emerson String Quartet: Bela Bartok, Eugene Drucker, Lawrence Dutton, David Finckel, Philip Setzer, Emerson String Quartet: Music

By the way for midnight music my favorite is
Amazon.com: Bach: Suites for Solo Cello: Johann Sebastian Bach: Music

There is something haunting about Bach Cello Suite no 1 prelude.

 

[cricfansd]

Most of EMI box sets are on sale these days. Some great deals are on offer. For example Dupre's complete EMI recording for $45, Rostropovich's complete recording for $75 etc. May be the music industry fear of the recession more than any one else

 

[ajay124]

Most of EMI box sets are on sale these days. Some great deals are on offer. For example Dupre's complete EMI recording for $45, Rostropovich's complete recording for $75 etc. May be the music industry fear of the recession more than any one else

The recording industry has twin swords of Damocles hanging over their necks. Recession is the smaller one. Downloading is the bigger one. That is the major reason for falling prices of compact discs.

A box set is like a buffet whereas buying a single CD is like ordering a la carte. In a buffet a few good dishes are often lumped together with many mediocre dishes. There would be no bad 'dishes' in box sets of Oistrakh, Heifetz, Rostropovich and Du Pre, but recording quality would vary. Some of these box sets have duplicate recordings (made with different musicians) of the same works.

A certain amount of duplication cannot be avoided when you buy box sets. I now have three - going on four - copies of this recording:

Beethoven: Triple Concerto: Herbert Von Karajan: Amazon.co.uk: Music

This recording is a milestone in the history of 20th century western music. Oistrakh, Rostropovich, Richter performing a Beethoven concerto together! Backed up by Von Karajan and Berliner Philharmoniker. Heady combo of heavy weight champions. This single CD is one of my prized possessions. But it is also part of the Richter set I have bought. And the Oistrakh set I have ordered. And the Rostropovich set I intend to order when the price comes down a bit

 

[ajay124]

Two versions of Beethoven's Triple Concerto

Karajan - Beethoven Triple Concerto (I) - Allegro (1 of 2) - YouTube

Beethoven - Triple Concert Barenboim, Yo-Yo Ma & Perlman (Mov.1Part.1) - YouTube

 

[ajay124]

A touch of velvet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFaq9kTlcaY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNCeYKfAOZI

 

[ajay124]

Jascha Heifetz or Daviv Oistrakh? One day while reading or posting on this thread, I posed this question to myself. Which one did I find better. I started 'listening' rather than 'hearing' both of them. I procured box sets of both.

Well at least for the moment I would favour Heifetz. Possibly because Sony has done a better job with the remastering and reissue of the Heifetz set, than EMI has done with the Oistrakh set. Perhaps the original recordings of Heifetz were better or more recent.

The 6 CD Heifetz set has become the mainstay of my night time listening ever since I bought it a few weeks back. I play the Oistrakh set also, but less often.

Jascha Heifetz Plays Great Violin Concertos - Sony Classical Masters: Jascha Heifetz: Amazon.co.uk: Music

David Oistrakh - Complete EMI Recordings: David Oistrakh: Amazon.co.uk: Music

 

[ssf]

I was visiting my sis-in-law in B'lore a week back and her husband has a decent entry level HT setup. ELAC speakers and sub driven by an Onkyo. This time around, I wanted to spend some more time listening to the system to get an idea of what I would want in my system.

Early morning, (well not too early seeing that I was on a holiday, with the previous night being spent gulping down Rum and Coke), I insert a CD of classical compositions into the BDP and just as I was settling down to the music, I hear loud laughter in the next room. I go over to join in on the laughter only to find that I was the target of the joke. My 9 year old niece, I was told, commented 'What kind of music does Sunil Uncle listen to early in the morning !!!'

I get back to the music only to hear my sis-in-law's blender making sounds that did not blend with mozart one bit.

Just as the sounds from the blender died down, I was surrounded by my family which included by brother-in-law's 8 month old cute boy. I was sternly told by my co-sister to turn the volume down as it would irritate the baby. The baby did look like he was enjoying the music though.

'Listening' to music it don't come easy for a few of us unfortunate oldies !!! :lol:

Ringo Starr - It Don't Come Easy - YouTube

 

[ajay124]

Sunil

The rum is fine but you should go easy on the coke! I had enough of this combo in my youth to drown a whale. Tastes good but all that fizz building up inside your body creates a music of its own

 

[ssf]

Sunil

The rum is fine but you should go easy on the coke! I had enough of this combo in my youth to drown a whale. Tastes good but all that fizz building up inside your body creates a music of its own

haha, tell me about it !!!

I have gone from 6 packs to one medium sized keg.