I don’t think anyone has read what fiftyfifty is asking for and what Keith has reiterated. It’s why you find music connecting with you on one system and not on another and why is this so. It’s not about lyrics or being in the right mood 
What audio attribute brings out emotion in music?
- Thread starter Fiftyfifty
- Start date
For me if a system does not gel is purely due to the tone given out by the system. Emotion for me will come later.
If the system is playing a happy or a sad track but if it sounds harsh or muffled then it would be unpleasant to listen to.
I guess it is certain frequencies in different setups which arouses the senses of different people.
If the system is playing a happy or a sad track but if it sounds harsh or muffled then it would be unpleasant to listen to.
I guess it is certain frequencies in different setups which arouses the senses of different people.
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@Fiftyfifty
I’m glad you used Naima as an example. I first heard that track over 30 years ago, on a Sanyo 2 in 1 playing a cassette tape of Giant Steps. It was the first time I had ever heard Coltrane and it hit me like a ton of bricks. And it still has the power to move me, all these years later.
For me, it’s the music that elicits an emotional response, not any specific audio attribute of the gear. Billie Holiday’s Strange Fruit on a phone’s speaker would still give me goosebumps.
One could then ask, rightfully so, why do I bother spending money on hifi gear? The only rationale I can provide is a pretty nebulous one - I find some setups are more ‘musical’ than others. That is to say, they make me forget about the hifi nuances and allow me to just get lost in the music.
I guess you could break it down further and ask ‘what makes a system sound musical?’ but I’m not going there right now. My head still hurts after reading @keith_correa ’s post above!
I’m glad you used Naima as an example. I first heard that track over 30 years ago, on a Sanyo 2 in 1 playing a cassette tape of Giant Steps. It was the first time I had ever heard Coltrane and it hit me like a ton of bricks. And it still has the power to move me, all these years later.
For me, it’s the music that elicits an emotional response, not any specific audio attribute of the gear. Billie Holiday’s Strange Fruit on a phone’s speaker would still give me goosebumps.
One could then ask, rightfully so, why do I bother spending money on hifi gear? The only rationale I can provide is a pretty nebulous one - I find some setups are more ‘musical’ than others. That is to say, they make me forget about the hifi nuances and allow me to just get lost in the music.
I guess you could break it down further and ask ‘what makes a system sound musical?’ but I’m not going there right now. My head still hurts after reading @keith_correa ’s post above!
Decadent_Spectre
Well-Known Member
I have already provided the answer, it is the individuals psychology which will determine which setup sounds have more of en emotional response for a given individual however I feel perhaps the threads purpose is more of a general sweep as to what qualities in a setup may generally be emotionally involving and I believe this is a flawed question as the emotional response is dictated by our minds reaction to the setup rather than any setup having qualities that can invoke this in most of the population. While I do believe there is no answer to this question in the vein that it might be sought in this thread but as a guess I would venture that properly producing the human voice in a believable and realistic way preserving the harmonics/sound/tone that people inherently read to understand emotion is something that will universally have the most value for humans looking to connect emotionally to music, at least the music that has singing. Music is also about flow/pacing/rhythm apart from tone so I venture this could be important.
Never knew emotional connect has so much tonight. Checknout https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mus...n,a relationship with physiological responses.
For me, it is the spookiness of my system where the sound emanates from the black hole. This silent background also helps in revealing the bumps in the notes and voices that contribute greatly to the realism and there-ness of the music/performance in your room. I never thought this could be realized but as I stated replacing SMPS-based power supplies in my chain with top-tier Sean Jacobs power supplies, experiences changed drastically.
Please see if this demonstrates this attribute though, I am not sure if phone capture is doing 100% justice.
Please see if this demonstrates this attribute though, I am not sure if phone capture is doing 100% justice.
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Lovely thread.
I'll respond with an example.
I was driving back alone from Pune to Bangalore in 2021. It was July and rains were in forecast. I started out at around 8pm from Pune and had just reached the highway when it started raining. That rain did not stop for a second till I reached the outskirts of Bangalore. It was around 5:00am and I had been driving nonstop. Yes, I was a bit tired, and was looking forward to a nice warm bed at home. Just then a song came up on Spotify which I had never ever heard before in my life. It was https://spotify.link/Ao0viB4DcDb and you won't believe the effect it had on me. The non stop rains, it was almost dawn and the dark clouds now being visible and this song. I heard this song on loop till I reached home and felt soo fresh that I could drive back to Pune right away. I got so emotionally attached to this song the first time it played, that I could relate to each and every word that Sona Mohapatra was singing. Ha ha I felt as if she was singing it live just for me!!!
So yeh some songs do touch, one's mood, the atmosphere, the timing, they all play a role, small or big. It's like watching Friends series. Each time you see, you understand a joke differently.
PS: I would not suggest one do such drives at night that too in the rain. We all train differently for different passions.
MaSh
I'll respond with an example.
I was driving back alone from Pune to Bangalore in 2021. It was July and rains were in forecast. I started out at around 8pm from Pune and had just reached the highway when it started raining. That rain did not stop for a second till I reached the outskirts of Bangalore. It was around 5:00am and I had been driving nonstop. Yes, I was a bit tired, and was looking forward to a nice warm bed at home. Just then a song came up on Spotify which I had never ever heard before in my life. It was https://spotify.link/Ao0viB4DcDb and you won't believe the effect it had on me. The non stop rains, it was almost dawn and the dark clouds now being visible and this song. I heard this song on loop till I reached home and felt soo fresh that I could drive back to Pune right away. I got so emotionally attached to this song the first time it played, that I could relate to each and every word that Sona Mohapatra was singing. Ha ha I felt as if she was singing it live just for me!!!
So yeh some songs do touch, one's mood, the atmosphere, the timing, they all play a role, small or big. It's like watching Friends series. Each time you see, you understand a joke differently.
PS: I would not suggest one do such drives at night that too in the rain. We all train differently for different passions.
MaSh
I am, not sure if technical reasons are what makes an emotional connect. the same 2 people can listen to the same music and have different Emotional connects.
But again if there is something specific then it will be Timing ( related to Coherency), Dynamics ( Micro followed by Macro) and Resolution as my top 3.
But again if there is something specific then it will be Timing ( related to Coherency), Dynamics ( Micro followed by Macro) and Resolution as my top 3.
Fiftyfifty
Well-Known Member
Some interesting responses and wonderful listening experiences shared by fellow FMs! Thanks.
Let us reframe the initial question:
Let us take the emotion felt by the listener out of the situation. Let us ignore his mood, upbringing, environmental factors, etc. Instead, let us consider the composer, arranger or artiste who wishes to express a certain emotion through the music. What does he or she do to achieve this? He/She uses tonal modulation, sustained notes, syncopation, tongueing (voices and wind instruments) etc., etc. Pure technique. My musician fellow FMs will know this. There are some systems that reproduce this well and some that do not. This reproduction is not subjective (though the impact on the listener is). I can play the same music through two different setups or I play it using two different speaker placements or two different sets of cables and you WILL HEAR the difference, notwithstanding your mood or state of mind. You may not feel any emotional connect but you will still be able to hear those subtle nuances of the music. As long as you listen attentively.
So the question really is 'What attributes of the setup correctly reproduce the intended emotional content?' As @arj mentioned, it may have a lot to do with Coherency and Dynamics. And the right resolution. Too much resolution may work against coherency.
Let us reframe the initial question:
Let us take the emotion felt by the listener out of the situation. Let us ignore his mood, upbringing, environmental factors, etc. Instead, let us consider the composer, arranger or artiste who wishes to express a certain emotion through the music. What does he or she do to achieve this? He/She uses tonal modulation, sustained notes, syncopation, tongueing (voices and wind instruments) etc., etc. Pure technique. My musician fellow FMs will know this. There are some systems that reproduce this well and some that do not. This reproduction is not subjective (though the impact on the listener is). I can play the same music through two different setups or I play it using two different speaker placements or two different sets of cables and you WILL HEAR the difference, notwithstanding your mood or state of mind. You may not feel any emotional connect but you will still be able to hear those subtle nuances of the music. As long as you listen attentively.
So the question really is 'What attributes of the setup correctly reproduce the intended emotional content?' As @arj mentioned, it may have a lot to do with Coherency and Dynamics. And the right resolution. Too much resolution may work against coherency.
IME, it's more to do with the software than the hardware. But am not sure 100%.
heliumflight
Well-Known Member
100% agree with you. My goal is also in the pursuit to get pitch black background and have achieved it by Cyrus.
HiFi Rig 1: Nad D3020 + Nuprime Omnia + SMSL D300 + ASI Liveline Reference IC + Sony APM 717
HiFi Rig 2: Cyrus 6 Dacamp + Nuprime Omnia + ASI Liveline power cable + ASI Liveline Reference IC + Townsend Isolda + Totem Rainmaker + Q Acoustics QB12 Subwoofer
Tv - Samsung QLED8k/65
dvraghavan
Active Member
I guess when you listen to music that you liked between 8-25 years of age you tend to emotionally like that song. Because that age is supposedly the happiest -especially when you recollect after 40+....
My personal taste of emotion evoking music veers towards systems that do tone and timing better. Some systems seem to sound relaxed and unhurried with various kinds of music over long listening sessions .(entry and medium level analogue sources almost always time better than corresponding digital counterparts).
If we are not talking too technical - I can pen my layman thoughts here. For me the music rings the strings when -
1 - Bass is clean (very lacking on most systems). Not talking about quantity of bass, not talking about bass extension to single digits & definitely not talking about gut shaking feelings. For me bass is the hook for most music I explore and listen to again. For example if a system can do the fast come & go bass for a song like Casio by Jungle or create the ambience of Max Kerr's Slap Bass on absolutely anything by Sly & the Family stone without lingering about and muddying up the fun - that has all my attention.
2 - Can the speaker disappear (most systems do this well) - this is another thing I like to listen to - most of the times speakers do disappear, but sometimes mostly in treble you can almost always tell where the sound is coming from - it is really distracting for me. I can never get lost in the music as far as I can tell where the tweeter is.
3 - Soundstage (Kinda rare to find)- I have put this for the drums/percussion primarily - as that is my best reference for soundstage. A lot depends on the mixing, but a lot of times there are some songs where you can almost place each hit of the drum kit. Some of the Neil Peart's live solos are great for this. When you can almost feel the size of his kits (which are massive) or Taiko Drumming songs (there are many).
4 - The Decay?? - I am SURE I am NOT calling this the right thing, but when you can hear a certain instrument continue to ring for a while, you hear that a lot on a Sitar or Jaltarang or the Sagar Veena in Paar Channa De by coke studio. Also some singers have that style like Eddie Vedder's Long Nights, Nick Drake's Cello Song. If a system doesn't lose it amongst the other sounds - bravo!
5 - Dead silent background - Now this is the hardest to explain I guess. But listen to a song like Chie Ayado's - End of the world and there should be nothing but the monotonous piano at the beginning of the song. It is like a vacuum with nothing but the piano, then she sings with her vibrato voice and you hear quivering syllables. It is impossible for me to "not shut my eyes" and listen to her if a system presents it like that.
Now I am not too well versed with how to judge smooth & silky/airy/visceral & ethereal/fluffy etc. So.....
These are the things I have used as a yard stick for evaluating any system in the last few years, where #1 has remained my top priority almost all of my auditioning life. These are the things that define whether I am hearing the system or the music. Whether it is analytical or emotional.
**Pardon my Audiophile English, but I hope that makes sense.
1 - Bass is clean (very lacking on most systems). Not talking about quantity of bass, not talking about bass extension to single digits & definitely not talking about gut shaking feelings. For me bass is the hook for most music I explore and listen to again. For example if a system can do the fast come & go bass for a song like Casio by Jungle or create the ambience of Max Kerr's Slap Bass on absolutely anything by Sly & the Family stone without lingering about and muddying up the fun - that has all my attention.
2 - Can the speaker disappear (most systems do this well) - this is another thing I like to listen to - most of the times speakers do disappear, but sometimes mostly in treble you can almost always tell where the sound is coming from - it is really distracting for me. I can never get lost in the music as far as I can tell where the tweeter is.
3 - Soundstage (Kinda rare to find)- I have put this for the drums/percussion primarily - as that is my best reference for soundstage. A lot depends on the mixing, but a lot of times there are some songs where you can almost place each hit of the drum kit. Some of the Neil Peart's live solos are great for this. When you can almost feel the size of his kits (which are massive) or Taiko Drumming songs (there are many).
4 - The Decay?? - I am SURE I am NOT calling this the right thing, but when you can hear a certain instrument continue to ring for a while, you hear that a lot on a Sitar or Jaltarang or the Sagar Veena in Paar Channa De by coke studio. Also some singers have that style like Eddie Vedder's Long Nights, Nick Drake's Cello Song. If a system doesn't lose it amongst the other sounds - bravo!
5 - Dead silent background - Now this is the hardest to explain I guess. But listen to a song like Chie Ayado's - End of the world and there should be nothing but the monotonous piano at the beginning of the song. It is like a vacuum with nothing but the piano, then she sings with her vibrato voice and you hear quivering syllables. It is impossible for me to "not shut my eyes" and listen to her if a system presents it like that.
Now I am not too well versed with how to judge smooth & silky/airy/visceral & ethereal/fluffy etc. So.....
These are the things I have used as a yard stick for evaluating any system in the last few years, where #1 has remained my top priority almost all of my auditioning life. These are the things that define whether I am hearing the system or the music. Whether it is analytical or emotional.
**Pardon my Audiophile English, but I hope that makes sense.
Decadent_Spectre
Well-Known Member
Thank you for rephrasing the question, I do not feel some systems do this better than others as it again relies on perception to determine which one does it better. As mentioned earlier reproducing the human voice and it's complexity is important for music that has it. I feel that perhaps phase response is important, coupled with roll off at both extremes and an emphasis on the low mid/mid bass with some overhang. This should produce a sound that will effectively convey voices and give good pace/rhythm without overly exerting the top end which can take away from the sound. Having an irregular response can also help but this will depend on the song, a certain system with a response that favors one song might not favor another, this is often seen in demos/auditions where people feel one setup did some songs better while the other setup did other songs better. So it is heavily dependent on the song played and what exactly is being sought, I don't believe there is any collection of traits that a system has that can make it suitable for all songs at conveying the artists intended emotion, setting aside the differences in recording. In short it's too variable and it depends, although I am not sure what purpose the question serves if the perception/subjectivity is being taken out of the equation. Without perception it is just vibrations and of no use. You yourself note that you will hear the difference, and then psychology enters the picture.
Edit - Forgot to add, lots of times a system adds flavor that is enjoyed by people but it is not there in the recording, one may argue it was not the artists intent yet people enjoy it. Perhaps the artist intended it when they recorded it and the recording wasn't optimum or perhaps they intended for the playback system to have it but it wasn't there on the recording.
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