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What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier?

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navarannan

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Might be a stupid question but Im tying to get my head around HiFi components to build a kick ass Hi Fi system and in the learning process.

I have gone through couple of articles in the net and also the Marantz Hi Fi components

Im confused with components DAC and CD player? And how they can play a 24 bit 192 Khz high quality audio.

It would be really great if someone cam tell me the difference between CD player and DAC. Why we use DAC? What is the role of DAC in the Hi Fi set up.

Out of all the cd players of Marantz none of them supports 24 bit 192 Khz audio? What is need to support this?

Also what is an integrated amplifier(I have some idea thats it a combination of pre and power amp) But does this also include the cd player or DAC?
 
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magma

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

wow !!!

HIFI nursery

didnt ask google baba ???

in short
An inegrated amplifier is a combnation of a pre and power amp
which is basically resposible for amplifying the signal so that speakers get enough to play
(Speakers canot be connected directly to a cd player since the cd player out puts too small a signal )

for all beginners and even many seasoned hifi players an integrated amplifier is enough
(rather than going into a full fleged pre power combo or a mono block game )

24/192 is a hi resolution file format
since you dont now much about it
You probably dont have hi rez music in any case
and so please dont concern yourself about it
( consider it a useless feature )

First ask yourself are you a music listner or a movie man
if you are theformer and integrated amp would be a good way to go
if you are a movie buff you can consider buying an AVR instead of a an integrated amp

an AVR by the way is a combination of an integrated amp and a video processor having
multiple channels of amplification so you can connect 5 or more speakers which may be needed for your movie pleasure
an integrated amp generally has 2 channel of amplification whichis enough for only 2 speakers ( hence is adviced for people you have a tendency to hear more music than movies

a DACis
a digital to audio converter
CD;s and all source material are recoded digitally and need to be converted to anlaogue before an amplifier of AVR understands them
CD players have a DAC built into them
SO do most computer soundcards
However when higher quality is needed then a seperate DAC is to be used

You need to decide which game you are playing to decide whether you need all components as seperates or will be happy with an all in one
 

sound_cycle

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

Also what is an integrated amplifier(I have some idea thats it a combination of pre and power amp) But does this also include the cd player or DAC?

Magma has answered in detail, this is just to add there is also this (relatively) new beast, the DAC integrated amp - the Marantz PM 6005 for example. Oh, it does not have a CD player (I should also ask what is that ? :rolleyes:)

ciao
gr
 

navarannan

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

wow !!!

HIFI nursery

didnt ask google baba ???

in short
An inegrated amplifier is a combnation of a pre and power amp
which is basically resposible for amplifying the signal so that speakers get enough to play
(Speakers canot be connected directly to a cd player since the cd player out puts too small a signal )

for all beginners and even many seasoned hifi players an integrated amplifier is enough
(rather than going into a full fleged pre power combo or a mono block game )

24/192 is a hi resolution file format
since you dont now much about it
You probably dont have hi rez music in any case
and so please dont concern yourself about it
( consider it a useless feature )

First ask yourself are you a music listner or a movie man
if you are theformer and integrated amp would be a good way to go
if you are a movie buff you can consider buying an AVR instead of a an integrated amp

an AVR by the way is a combination of an integrated amp and a video processor having
multiple channels of amplification so you can connect 5 or more speakers which may be needed for your movie pleasure
an integrated amp generally has 2 channel of amplification whichis enough for only 2 speakers ( hence is adviced for people you have a tendency to hear more music than movies

a DACis
a digital to audio converter
CD;s and all source material are recoded digitally and need to be converted to anlaogue before an amplifier of AVR understands them
CD players have a DAC built into them
SO do most computer soundcards
However when higher quality is needed then a seperate DAC is to be used

You need to decide which game you are playing to decide whether you need all components as seperates or will be happy with an all in one

Thanks magma for the quick one. My music collection is huge with many high quality recording(24 bit ,192 KHz) recording and FLACs. I know that cd is 16bit 44.1 Khz.

My main aim is music. I have spent years to collect rare audio cds and now I need a good hi-fi setup to pay justice to the collection and ears.. So its music Im interested in so we can leave AV receivers.

When I checked the Marantz hi f products I didnt see any cd players that can pick up HIRES audio. Thats when I thought DAC is the once who is contributing there. So where does DAC fit in the HI Fi setup?

Also can DAC take say 320Kbps mp3 and upsacale into 24 bit 102Khs HIRES audio?

And MARANTZ integrated amplifiers have cd players inbuilt. So why do they have seperate cd players?
 

sound_cycle

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

So where does DAC fit in the HI Fi setup?

That's what takes those bits and gets your music. An analogue equivalent would be a cartridge. And therefore IMHO critical. Typically, it would fit between your bitstream and the integrated amp.

Also can DAC take say 320Kbps mp3 and upsacale into 24 bit 102Khs HIRES audio?

No sonic benefit to be derived

And MARANTZ integrated amplifiers have cd players inbuilt

No.

So why do they have seperate cd players?
I buy my music (files) off itunes and don't have a CD player (I have one in my desktop computer though for EACing my modest collection of CDs), so I would not know the answer

ciao
gr
 
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navarannan

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

That's what takes those bits and gets your music. An analogue equivalent would be a cartridge. And therefore IMHO critical. Typically, it would fit between your bitstream and the integrated amp.



No sonic benefit to be derived



No.


I buy my music (files) off itunes and don't have a CD player (I have one in my desktop computer though for EACing my modest collection of CDs), so I would not know the answer

ciao
gr

IS it true that the Marantz Integrated Amplifier doesnt have cd player in built. When I check the manual it says so (PM8005)
 
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sound_cycle

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

IS it true that the Marantz Integrated Amplifier doesnt have cd player in built. When I check the manual it says so

Not mine. for sure, I checked this morning before I left for work. (I have a 6005 though)

edit : this one http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=HiFiComponents&ProductId=PM8005 ? No it does not. Why do you think it has a cd player built in ? "The elegant remote control features an ergonomic layout for easy operation, and includes the ability to control our companion SA8005 disc player and one of our network players.

ciao
gr
 
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magma

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

rarely will a manufacturer give a cd player with an amplifier all in one

and even if they do

i normally steer away becuase more often than no the cd player part is the first one to conk and if that happens ill have not only adead cdp plauer but also a dead amp
so no music

if you get dac with amplifier its fine

but i would steer clear from CD player + amplifier all in one
 

navarannan

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

Not mine. for sure, I checked this morning before I left for work. (I have a 6005 though)

edit : this one Marantz US | PM8005 ? No it does not. Why do you think it has a cd player built in ? "The elegant remote control features an ergonomic layout for easy operation, and includes the ability to control our companion SA8005 disc player and one of our network players.

ciao
gr

Oops page 27 of the owners manual says as follows.

"Playing CDs
1 Press X on this unit to turn the power on.
2 Press the input source select buttons to switch the
input source to CD.
The CD input indicator lights.
3 Playback the CD.
4 Use VOLUME df to adjust the volume."

Is it playing the cd from another player? Sorry for my ignorance.
 

sound_cycle

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

Press the input source select buttons to switch the
Is it playing the cd from another player? Sorry for my ignorance.

Yes you are right.

However, it is one of the several sources, that you can select. I have my DAC connected to the CD input

ciao
gr
 

navarannan

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

rarely will a manufacturer give a cd player with an amplifier all in one

and even if they do

i normally steer away becuase more often than no the cd player part is the first one to conk and if that happens ill have not only adead cdp plauer but also a dead amp
so no music

if you get dac with amplifier its fine

but i would steer clear from CD player + amplifier all in one

Hi magma. Thanks. I checked the manual again. Marantz amplifier doesnt have cd player inbuilt. I read it wrong and plus the remote misguided me.

Now the Marantz CD6005cd player manual says..

Linear PCM
(.wav)
Sampling frequency : Linear PCM 32 / 44.1 / 48
kHz
Bit length : 16 bit
Format : Linear PCM

Does this mean the 24bit 192Khz HIRES audio cds I have cannot be played or what?

Still my confusion where does the DAC fit in with the cd player and the Integrated AMP and whats its use in additional to the cd player which also converters the digital data to analogue to feed into the AMP
 

Vinay2013

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

Oops page 27 of the owners manual says as follows.

"Playing CDs
1 Press X on this unit to turn the power on.
2 Press the input source select buttons to switch the
input source to CD.
The CD input indicator lights.
3 Playback the CD.
4 Use VOLUME df to adjust the volume."

Is it playing the cd from another player? Sorry for my ignorance.

Yes. It should be talking about separate CD player and how to select the source. Marantz Amp's remote has the facility to control cd player through it. There are some CD player with SACD features which I believe can play high resolution files.
 

navarannan

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

Yes you are right.

However, it is one of the several sources, that you can select. I have my DAC connected to the CD input

ciao
gr

DAC to cd input. This again confuses me....

So you play your digital music from iPOD or any media player and is connected to DAC. And DAC is connected to CD player? And CD players out is fed to AMP?
 

navarannan

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

Yes. It should be talking about separate CD player and how to select the source. Marantz Amp's remote has the facility to control cd player through it. There are some CD player with SACD features which I believe can play high resolution files.

Hi Vinay.. Then I check the Marantz SA8005 manual. It can play 192 Khz, 24 bit HIRES cds.

If that is the case what is the use of DAC?(in terms of CD and mp3)
 

sound_cycle

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

Does this mean the 24bit 192Khz HIRES audio cds I have cannot be played or what?

Still my confusion where does the DAC fit in with the cd player and the Integrated AMP and whats its use in additional to the cd player which also converters the digital data to analogue to feed into the AMP
Not addressed to me but let me take another slash at it

https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/blog/digital-to-analogue-converters

DAC. How does DAC make CDs sound better? - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

Basically if your CD player did not have a DAC you could not hear it. If you had such a player you would use an external DAC. (with the PM6005 the DAC is in the amplifier, the Bifrost is an external DAC)

AFAIK CD's are only 16/44.1

ciao
gr
 

sound_cycle

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

DAC to cd input. This again confuses me....

So you play your digital music from iPOD or any media player and is connected to DAC. And DAC is connected to CD player? And CD players out is fed to AMP?



The PM 6005 has coaxial and optical digital inputs. If I had a CD player with an optical output I would connect it to its digital optical input and select that to listen to music with the rotary dial. It also has coaxial digital input. The amp would light up its light labelled "optical" if I were to select either of these inputs

It also has several analog inputs. a phono input (meant for a record player) and four others labelled CD Tuner network and recorder. I have arbitrarily connected the analog audio output from my DAC to the input labelled "CD" - it is not compulsory to connect only a CD-player there (and uncharacteristically I am not OCD about it)

A possible chain (such as I have) looks like this Music file (it may be on cd/flash drive/ hard disk/ internet) ----> something which reads it and sends it a/k/a transport (a windows computer/ media player WDTVlive ) ----> to a DAC which converts those digital bits that represent sound into an analog output (Schiit Bifrost) ---> amplifier which umm amplifies it ---> speakers

The DAC can be external (a separate dabba with its own powersource etc) or internal (within the CDplayer/ computer or in the case of the DAC integrated amplifier, within the dabba that houses the amplifier) but without it you cannot listen to music on files.

HTH

ciao
gr
 
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Vinay2013

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

Hi Vinay.. Then I check the Marantz SA8005 manual. It can play 192 Khz, 24 bit HIRES cds.

If that is the case what is the use of DAC?(in terms of CD and mp3)

SA 8005 is a CD and SACD player. Normal CDs resolution is 16 bit 44.1kHz while SACD has higher resolution.

Work of DAC is to convert digital signals into Analog. Every electronic device (phone, MP3 player, computer soundcard etc.) has a DAC inbuilt without which you can not hear the sound. It is the quality of DAC that makes it different.

Every file type will require DAC whether MP3 or WAV, Flac or DSD. Now different DACs have different resolution handling capability. Marantz's normal CD player such as 5005, 6005 can handle upto 44.1khz while 8005 can handle higher resolutions.
 

navarannan

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

SA 8005 is a CD and SACD player. Normal CDs resolution is 16 bit 44.1kHz while SACD has higher resolution.

Work of DAC is to convert digital signals into Analog. Every electronic device (phone, MP3 player, computer soundcard etc.) has a DAC inbuilt without which you can not hear the sound. It is the quality of DAC that makes it different.

Every file type will require DAC whether MP3 or WAV, Flac or DSD. Now different DACs have different resolution handling capability. Marantz's normal CD player such as 5005, 6005 can handle upto 44.1khz while 8005 can handle higher resolutions.

That brings another question. For Marantz there is a DAC :- HD-DAC1 What is it supposed to be used with?

So the Marantz CD players like 5005 and 6005 have inbuilt DAC and there is absolutely no need to buy another dedicated DAC??

Similarly if I want to play HIRES audio go with 8005 and no need of DAC as well?
 

magma

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Re: What is the difference between CD player and DAC? What is an Integrated Amplifier

if you buy
SA 8005

then that cd player has an excellent built in DAC that will pretty much kill any entry level dacs and probably even a couple mid level ones

if the above player also has a digital input
which you can connect to your pc etc

then you dont need a dac at all


THIS is if you are considering buying a cd player at all

if you are not buying a cd player
and you are goind to play music only through a PC source then buy a dac

otherwise if you want to play CDs
then the above cd player is really good with a really good dac as well
 
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