Which Speaker cable to buy from U.S ?

[captrajesh]

Was going thru the thread and read various comments.
In my opinion Cables are very very important. They can change or take your system to another level.
It appears many friends think investing in cables is not correct as cheaper cables can sound as good as the costlier ones or the difference is not that much. This is not correct.
CABLES CAN MAKE HUGE---HUGE DIFFERENCE DEPENDING ON YOUR SYSTEM.
I agree prices of good cables is ridiculously high and there is no justification between cost of production and selling price.
But that is how High end audio works. My friend says high end audio is where 25cents record cleaning brush is sold for 25 dollars. And Audiophiles are prepared to buy these products not once but many time in their lifetime at very very high prices. So you are being consistently fooled because of your love for music. It is like an emotional black mailing.

Coming to good cheaper cables I can recommend Kimber 8 TC or 12 TC (new model good for biwiring) and HERO Interconnect
Transparent Cables THE WAVE speaker cables $200 and THE LINK Interconnect $85
ANTI Cables from USA both Speaker and Interconnects. Anti cables don't have shielding. They just have coating of Varnish or something like that.
Nordost Blue Heaven Interconnect and speaker cables.
Cardas cables lower range interconnects are good too.
Cord cables from UK
Homegrown Silver cables from USA can do DIY also.

When considering cables your system matching is important. If your system is very moderate then no need to buy expensive cables as you cannot extract maximum from the cables. But in high end system Cables can make or break a system.
Do not invest too much on POWER CORD. BUT A DECENT POWER CORD IS A MUST. BELDEN Makes very good power cord as Venkat suggested buy you have to buy and put your own plugs. WATTGATE ARE BEST. USING A WATTGATE WALL RECETOR IS A MUST THOUGH VERY EXPENSIVE.
I have many makes of very good interconnects and speaker cables if any one interested can contact and try them before deciding.

That is lot of good advice. Thank you.

 

[venkatcr]

It appears many friends think investing in cables is not correct as cheaper cables can sound as good as the costlier ones or the difference is not that much. This is not correct.
CABLES CAN MAKE HUGE---HUGE DIFFERENCE DEPENDING ON YOUR SYSTEM.

I agree prices of good cables is ridiculously high and there is no justification between cost of production and selling price.

But that is how High end audio works. My friend says high end audio is where 25cents record cleaning brush is sold for 25 dollars. And Audiophiles are prepared to buy these products not once but many time in their lifetime at very very high prices. So you are being consistently fooled because of your love for music. It is like an emotional black mailing.

Though I agree a well manufactured cable does have a cost attached, some manufacturers such as Belden can keep the cost low simply by scale of manufacturing. Belden is the largest manufacturer in the world and makes 1000s of KM for every meter a boutique manufacturer makes. I think we should differentiate between a product being 'cheaper' and being 'less expensive' or 'economical'.

I just do no want people to be fooled into thinking that only the expensive products have value. Of course, in cables, ultimately your ears decide.

Cheers

 

[square_wave]

I was just commenting on the reaction to the use of Belden cables. I have personally heard the Belden speaker cables used on a Primare system driving Audience 52 speakers. Frankly, between that and a 1.5 lakh VDH cable, I could not make out any difference. If at all, the Belden seemed to carry more data and had a larger sound stage. Ultimately, I agree that all these discussions are very subjective and the decisions are very personal.

The part of the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is was referring to is this. There are two guys who are travelling long distance by BMW motorcycle. The bike breaks down, and the owner start fretting. The rider, a mechanic, thinks of a an easy solution using a foil from a cigarette pack. The owner is shocked at the solution. Saying he will only fit original parts, he prefers to wait in the middle of nowhere and spend a huge amount waiting for the part to be delivered. The riders solution could have taken him to the next mechanic shop for a proper job.

Regarding the CD player, I am dying to try out the new 650C from CA. I believe it will be fantastic !! Whether it beats a Meridian or not is a different question.

Specifications may not be everything. But without specs, life would be in chaos all the time. It will like putting a square plug into a round nut.

Cheers

I have read the book.

The point is about what is good for someone else and what works in a system is completely dependent on a different set of variables. Trying to say that the belden cable is a solution that fits all because it meet some specs is what I did not understand.

If specs is all that is important, you just need finolex cables for speakers.

I have heard some recent Latest mind boggling spec cd players. Most of them do not hold a candle to some older players for things that matter!
Specs are just that. Audio is a very personal thing. There are people who go beyond specs or go in different directions (when it comes to spec) to get what they want.

Your comments make me think of the saying.

For people who only have the hammer as a tool, all problems looks like nails.

I agree with you that some cables are ridiculously priced. I am not supporting that snake oil camp at all. I personally use some professional cables used in recording studios which I kinda like.

Compared to some other cables I found the belden to be harsh when played through some revealing tweeters like scanspeaks and morel. It gives an illusion of more detail but I found the sound bright and bleached. Very evident especially with western classical string quartets.

 

[venkatcr]

Trying to say that the belden cable is a solution that fits all because it meet some specs is what I did not understand.

You seem to have misunderstood my posts. To a comment that rejected Belden outright, all I did was say that they manufacture good cables and take the effort of proving that the specs they manufacture with stay on for a long time. That is high quality, in my opinion.

What cables one uses is, of course as I have agreed many times, one's personal choice.

Cheers

 

[square_wave]

You seem to have misunderstood my posts. To a comment that rejected Belden outright, all I did was say that they manufacture good cables and take the effort of proving that the specs they manufacture with stay on for a long time. That is high quality, in my opinion.

What cables one uses is, of course as I have agreed many times, one's personal choice.

Cheers

If someone recommends belden with a speaker which I am familiar with, I may reject it outright. What is the problem with that ?

 

[sidvee]

To the OP:
I suggest you also consider
Signal Cable
Award Winning, Audiophile Quality Cables; Affordable Prices
Anti-Cables | Home
BTW I own all of these brands and I feel they are good VFM (of-course YMMV). All are available online only in the US I believe though Audio Art is retailed in India by ARN in B'lore.
Numerous reviews (if you are one of those who trust reviews) are to be had.
Cheers
Sid

 

[odyssey]

I need a pair of 3m speaker wire for bi-wiring Dali Ikon 6, Pls suggest me some VFM speaker cable (other than silver cables, which may sound bright with Ikons). And i am getting it from U.S so pls post the link of the site which sells them, if you know...

Hi
I dont know how many people think this thread has gone astray but if you are looking for speaker cables for a speaker at this price (~USD 1200) then spending a $few hundred USD wont give you the kind of return that spending some of that same money on other components will. I am assuming that your goal is to get the best sound that you can at a certain price.
If you want to bi-wire, that in turn will require you to spend much more. I second cables from companies such as anti-cables, Groneberg, blue jeans, Audio Art (which we sell in India but which you can buy from Rob Fritz directly in the US), DIY cables (belden or others) or look at audiogon for good seconds. It is also true that even in this price range, you will get different sonic signatures, as has been said many times - synergy is key. if it possible for you to hear it at all, do that in your own system, otherwise try and make as much of an educated guess as possible.

cheers
[email protected]

 

[navinsundar]

Hi
I dont know how many people think this thread has gone astray but if you are looking for speaker cables for a speaker at this price (~USD 1200) then spending a $few hundred USD wont give you the kind of return that spending some of that same money on other components will. I am assuming that your goal is to get the best sound that you can at a certain price.
If you want to bi-wire, that in turn will require you to spend much more. I second cables from companies such as anti-cables, Groneberg, blue jeans, Audio Art (which we sell in India but which you can buy from Rob Fritz directly in the US), DIY cables (belden or others) or look at audiogon for good seconds. It is also true that even in this price range, you will get different sonic signatures, as has been said many times - synergy is key. if it possible for you to hear it at all, do that in your own system, otherwise try and make as much of an educated guess as possible.

cheers
[email protected]

Which one do you suggest for Dali Ikon6 ? Is it true that silver cables makes them brighter?

 

[odyssey]

Hi
The Audio arts that I am very familiar with are anything but bright. I didnt find the anti-cables bright either. I am sure there are others

cheers

 

[unleash_me]

Even this is silver coated and 3m Pair cable costs me almost 75% of the speaker itself. Any other VFM cables....

I'd been using SC-5 (not biwire) with Ikon 6 for a few years. Before that, it was Wireworld Luna biwire for sometime which replaced DAC copper cable (really thick, 8 gauge (?) cant remember the model) In between, there were lots of used, loaned and traded cables swaps once in a while from major brands. In my system, the SC-5 were the most engaging. With the IC3/SC5 in place, I more or less stopped experimenting with cables altogether. Although I moved to a different cable sometime back and sold my collection, the above combo is still with me as a spare. If you can afford it, this is a very good cable ime.

Not sure if you are currently in India or US but if you are here, I believe Sridhar got Ikons and Audioart cables. You might want to go down to his place and listen it for yourself.

Cheers.

 

[square_wave]

Yup. The audio art are a very balanced cable. Not extraordinarily detailed but very decent. The Anti cables too are quite nice.

You could try out Gronenberg cables too. I like them a lot.

 

[longshanks]

about your comment regarding reviewers etc, man they sure get good equipment but have you EVER seen their rooms? In every magazine, every review I've read be it from Stereophile, Absolute Sound, whatever....they NEVER show their rooms.

Even if they do show their listening room it makes little or no sense to believe any magazine or website review although it could be a nice read.

So again, I maintain, Valhalla cables are just too sharp and trebly for my tastes and the kind of systems I like to build and listen to. They MIGHT be someone else's gold, but they are completely USELESS in my world.

If it spoils your system synergy it is indeed useless for you.Some of my friends however said that it helped them find the weak link in their system which made them upgrade,after the change they've stayed with that completely satisfying setup for many years and yet to change anything.

In fact, if adding the Valhalla cable makes my system synergy better and more "right", I know I screwed up in matching the components etc.

It also could be the other way around


During one our listening sessions my friend swapped the speaker cable and interconnects with the one from combak(dont remember the model) and it was like my ears were suddenly blocked,Putting the Nordost IC and speaker cable back opened up things and everything sound amazingly airy like there was no system present.The realism was astounding and in many songs we were able to feel and imagine how the recoding setup would have been(placement of artist and instruments, i hope you get what i am trying to say cause not sure if i am using the right words to express what i felt).

Cheers.

 

[SKR]

I agree with Rajapraveen that Vallahla have been accepted as very good cables worldwide. There could be a few exceptions.
The crust of the matter is that if you want to get best out of your Very High quality audio system (i repeat very high level systems) you need to spend on these cables which are rather expensive. Also I will say you need to have very good RCA and XLR plugs with your cables like WBT Nextgen Silver 0102 or Oyaide Silver RCA or Cardas New XLR rodium plated orNeutric XLR's.
But if your system is mid-fi or low-fi, then there is no need to spend that much.
I have an old Rega RB-250 tonearm(very cheap may be $200-) lying unused for about 8 years. I recently got it rewired with silver wiring from catridge till the phonostage. The cost of wire being more than the tonearm. But when I installed it on my turntable I got a Shock of my Lifetime to hear the sound of this cable still new and not burnt atall. Now after 3 months it has further improved and sounding so very good.
I don't know if members have heard of Bybee's. I recently got them installed on my speaker terminals with good results. Can go to Bybee web site and check.
Regarding Belden no doubt they are very big cable manufacturers and doing OEM for many cable companies. But I doubt Belden cables sold directly under Belden name could be considered very high quality. No doubt some of their cables like power cords and speaker cables are very good and are used by many smaller cable manufacvturers under their own brand names, and Belden name is concealed under the shielding and wire mesh.
But I am sure as OEM manufacturers they must be making some outstanding cables for others under customers brand name and specifications.
Belden sells in BULK, so why should they go for this small high end market directly.
Like Levitor is an US company which makes electrical switches etc. Their own wall receptors are very cheap but they are making very high quality Receptors for WATTGATE costing $150-each really very very good ones and I will recomment every one to have one receptor atleast to power their system using say Kimber PK-10 or Oyaide Power cable to connect to wall power.

Here I would like to say that the defination of HIGH level sound is different for different persons depending on their listening experience. When I say high quality sound I am saying based on my listening of my real high value system.
For some Blue heaven or Kimber PK-12 or Belden may be extremely good and enjoyable. In high end audio you climb up the ladder gradually after getting exposure to better systems and by reading reviews etc and talking to friends.
Thanks
SKR

 

[reignofchaos]

The Audio Art being discussed here is a little on the warmer side of neutral. They'll go rather well with a slightly bright setup like Dali/Monitor Audio.

 

[SKR]

Bybee is a REVOLUTIONARY tweak - though quite expensive.

Applied them on power cords, speaker cables, ICs or even inside CDPs/DACs, Preamps, they offer outstanding results!

Thanks SKR for mentioning them.

Hi audio_engr,
I tried Bybee's first in my power supply by putting them in Wattgate power receptors but could not hear any difference. So I took them out after a month or two connected then to my Quad 2805 speaker terminals and got good results.
I thing it is recommended to install bybee's as close as possible to the component being fed. In case of Wattgate receptor it was rather much far away from my amplifier as entire run of 2 metre power cord followed the bybees which I think is too much.
I saw a fellow here installing 6 bybees inside his power amplfier. Crazy.
Thanks for your remarks on bybee's.
SKR

 

[sidvee]

Usually I try to budget cables at 10-15% of the system value. So for instance a $10,000 system will be served well by a $1000-$1500 cable set (IC's & spkr. cbls). Does this mean that a $5000 cable set won't sound good? Not really, it may sound great, but at that point you would be better off replacing the loudspeaker or source which will be a better value. Similarly you don't buy a $10,000 system and throw in 20 ga. lamp cord for speaker cables and some cheap IC's. So IMHO all cable price ranges and their suitability should be referred to in the context of the whole system rather than in isolation.
Cheers
Sid

 

[navinsundar]

I'd been using SC-5 (not biwire) with Ikon 6 for a few years. Before that, it was Wireworld Luna biwire for sometime which replaced DAC copper cable (really thick, 8 gauge (?) cant remember the model) In between, there were lots of used, loaned and traded cables swaps once in a while from major brands. In my system, the SC-5 were the most engaging. With the IC3/SC5 in place, I more or less stopped experimenting with cables altogether. Although I moved to a different cable sometime back and sold my collection, the above combo is still with me as a spare. If you can afford it, this is a very good cable ime.

Not sure if you are currently in India or US but if you are here, I believe Sridhar got Ikons and Audioart cables. You might want to go down to his place and listen it for yourself.

Cheers.

Again. SC-5 is also silver coated... Where is sridhar located. I am in chennai...

 

[odyssey]

Hi
I am in Bangalore but I thought you were going to procure it from the US? As a few of us have already mentioned, the SC-5 is anything but bright. Please dont go with too much of these generalisations of Silver coated, or silver being brighter.

cheers

 

[shaizada]

Even if they do show their listening room it makes little or no sense to believe any magazine or website review although it could be a nice read.




If it spoils your system synergy it is indeed useless for you.Some of my friends however said that it helped them find the weak link in their system which made them upgrade,after the change they've stayed with that completely satisfying setup for many years and yet to change anything.




It also could be the other way around


During one our listening sessions my friend swapped the speaker cable and interconnects with the one from combak(dont remember the model) and it was like my ears were suddenly blocked,Putting the Nordost IC and speaker cable back opened up things and everything sound amazingly airy like there was no system present.The realism was astounding and in many songs we were able to feel and imagine how the recoding setup would have been(placement of artist and instruments, i hope you get what i am trying to say cause not sure if i am using the right words to express what i felt).

Cheers.

I actually use Harmonix Golden Performance HS101GP cables from my Reimyo Dac to my Preamp. Even the power cord on the Reimyo Dac is the Studio Master with Wattgate plugs. The dac was designed with those cables AND all these XRCDs were made with the same decoding chip. This setup works great at the JVC Studio's in Japan where most of the XRCDs are mastered and manufactured. Good enough for them and is MORE than good enough for me

Anyhow, it shows how we hear things differently. Valhalla cables are VERY well regarded, but they have the typical HIFI sound that I've had and moved away from completely. Thats just me and my audio journey. I have my OWN listening taste and enjoy musicality....something I never got from the Valhalla chain.

I EXCLUSIVELY use Furutech Audio Reference III for my whole signal chain now which is OCC wire. It's the some of the best stuff that I've heard and enjoy it immensely.

Also, it would be nice if you could put up your system in the appropriate thread. It would at least provide some reference point for our conversations to see where you are coming from etc. Just helps with perspective.

 

[square_wave]

Usually I try to budget cables at 10-15% of the system value. So for instance a $10,000 system will be served well by a $1000-$1500 cable set (IC's & spkr. cbls). Does this mean that a $5000 cable set won't sound good? Not really, it may sound great, but at that point you would be better off replacing the loudspeaker or source which will be a better value. Similarly you don't buy a $10,000 system and throw in 20 ga. lamp cord for speaker cables and some cheap IC's. So IMHO all cable price ranges and their suitability should be referred to in the context of the whole system rather than in isolation.
Cheers
Sid

Completely agree with you on this.

Two things here:

Cost and context (synergy). Both are important.

I wanted to add that when you go DIY, sometimes you can make cables which cost 3 times lesser but sound better.