Why analogue (vinyl) sounds better that digital

Hi Ajinkya,

Thanks for your detailed response. You have brought in a new issue of the precision of each data points which I did not consider.

However, please pardon my ignorance, I do have serious concerns about your response, which unfortunately I have not understood at all.

Members, I do apologise for the level of technicality in this post.

Let's consider any mechanics problem in a spatial box of extent L. If the continuous functions f(x) defined on this box have a periodic boundary condition, the Fourier variable, in this case, the momentum becomes discrete, however there are infinite no of momenta, starting from zero to infinity.

Now think the equivalent situation here: momentum = time, and space or x = frequency. In this situation, one can understand easily that for a signal that starts at a time minus infinity and extends in discrete steps to a time plus infinity, the information can be packaged by Fourier transform to a signal in continuous freq space where it is bandlimited upto a max freq (just like the finite box in continuous space extending only upto a max of L).

All the above follows from the theory of Fourier transform.

Now think of the continuous box being a grid or lattice, that is, the space is now discretized with a lattice constant. Now you have to be a bit careful about the Fourier transform, and the delta functions will be replaced by Kronecker deltas. But all this can be done. I do this for a living day in and day out. Now you get a momentum space that is discrete and finite.

Correspondingly, a set of functions of time at discrete and finite no of points of time would be Fourier mapped to a space of freq which is bandlimited, but is also DISCRETE.

For our audio signal, that would be disastrous.

All the above follows from simple mathematical properties of Fourier transform. I have NOT assumed anything else.

So, unless you do have a signal (as a function of time) that extends from the infinite past to the infinite future (in discrete steps as in the case of the quantised signal), you are not going to get a signal in frequency space that is bandlimited and also continuous in frequency.
This is what I stated as assumption (1) of the proof.

Basically unless you are putting in an infinite amount of information, you are NOT getting out an infinite amount of information. Fourier transforms are not going to help.

I hope this clarifies my earlier post.
 
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I grew up with a Garrard and a very good sounding Philips amp which my Dad sold for rupees 4000/- when I was in hostel along with the speakers and the entire Vinyl collection!! :eek: sigh!! :(

I just spent close to 60K last December on a setup that doesn't compare or come close to reproducing that sound!! I feel so heartbroken!! :(

How much does a Garrard cost these days?

where can I find old Garrard and Philips models and specs catalouged from the 1970s? My parents have no recollection of the model numbers...

Regards

gobble,

there is one garrard with sushil anand of nova audio, bombay. give him a call 02226002012/ 02226007700. very surprise price so i'll let you discover it for yourself :)

though the garrards to have are the 301 or 401. the one sushil has is some other garrard model. in bangalore, balaji has an old philips model for under 5k.

what's your current set up?

regards
 
gobble,

there is one garrard with sushil anand of nova audio, bombay. give him a call 02226002012/ 02226007700. very surprise price so i'll let you discover it for yourself :)

though the garrards to have are the 301 or 401. the one sushil has is some other garrard model. in bangalore, balaji has an old philips model for under 5k.

what's your current set up?

regards

Hey i only wanted to research the model and specs not buy one.

Thanks anyways.

Regards
 
We are living in a digital age. There is no point in making a comparison to analogue except from a historical point of view.

Analogue is good as dead...let us just accept it and look ahead.
 
Hi Kannan,

Audiophiles are people who put audio quality over trends and convenience. Your statement would get cheered by gadget freaks not audiophiles.

By the way, no one is against digital. We are just unhappy about the fact that even after 30 years of evolution digital audio does not sound any better. CD is a 30 year old format,. Would you use a 30 year old computer chip? Or a 30 year old office document format? The problem is that after the CD every thing else that succeeded commercially, was clearly even inferior in quality, such as MP3 etc. Most of us have been more than eager to invest in good digital formats. Do you realize that all the people who purchased SACD, DVD-Audio, HDCD etc. were mostly vinyl listeners?

Thanks,
Sharad
 
We are living in a digital age. There is no point in making a comparison to analogue except from a historical point of view.

Analogue is good as dead...let us just accept it and look ahead.

now that kannan has spoken from Mount Digital, i guess i'll accept the oracle's unassailable logic and sell my lp collection. shucks. and i thought i was onto a good thing. :( maybe i'll just clean my plates on the pro-ject now or think of some other 21st century use for it :rolleyes:
 
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also vinyl is black and as every self respecting fashionista knows black is oh so last season dahlings. hot pink is in. get with it guys!
 
Give the chap a break :). I'm sure he's completely clueless. Stevieboy can you pm me how much nova audio is asking for that TT. I'm looking for a turntable.
 
also vinyl is black and as every self respecting fashionista knows black is oh so last season dahlings. hot pink is in. get with it guys!

well...

421702b.jpg


:cool:
 
:clapping:

i guess that's why you're gruby 'halo' you've achieved nirvana! ;) me i've got one more step to go. only have managed to lay hands on a red vinyl disc. sigh...
 
Hi Ajinkya,

Correspondingly, a set of functions of time at discrete and finite no of points of time would be Fourier mapped to a space of freq which is bandlimited, but is also DISCRETE.

Asit,
I think this point is where the confusion is coming in. I'll shortly post an explanation for the Fourier mapping in a way that is less technical, without formulae and such, if I can. I'm just trying to come up with an analogy scenario to answer your question. Your discrete/continuous grid description is clear and concise. :)

Thanks,
Ajinkya.
 
though seriously kannan would love to hear your logic or argument behind what you've said.

I think we just heard a faddist speak the latest fad, nothing more :)

No offense meant to Kannan, but all I can say is if you've been lucky to own a Vinyl setup you would understand its merits intrinsically. :cool:

Regards
 
Got my first TT - A Technics SL-B2. I'm not sure what the cartridge on it is but it sounds rather good other than the pops and clicks. What is the best way of reducing the pops and clicks? Other than this, a TT is audio nirvana to be honest.
 
Got my first TT - A Technics SL-B2...

Nice! Where did you get the TT from?

...but it sounds rather good other than the pops and clicks. What is the best way of reducing the pops and clicks?...

I think what you're hearing are surface noise from the LP's that are dirty. Looks like you might have to spend some time cleaning them. Congrats and happy listening...
 
Nice! Where did you get the TT from?



I think what you're hearing are surface noise from the LP's that are dirty. Looks like you might have to spend some time cleaning them. Congrats and happy listening...

Got it from Ramesh (hifipal4all on the forum). Its in really superb condition and the looks hide the age. I opened it up to check the belt and it seems to be alright. The cartridge also seems fine. Cleaning records does seem to make it better but there's still wow and flutter. I'm guessing that I just need a better cartridge.
 
awesome! what's the cartridge on it?

clean your lps as grubyhalo has suggested. best way to reduce pops and ticks.

1. get a carbon fibre brush. sushil of nova audio can send you one or you can probably get one from arn systems, they do project. 600 odd bucks. brush the lp when its on the platter before every play. instructions come with the brush. basically you hold the brush to the lp rotating surface and after two revolutions drag the brush horizontally off the lp, taking the collected dirt with it.

2. make some cleaning solution immediately otherwise you'll damage your lps by playing em dirty. i have a spare bottle of isopropyl alcohol which i can give you for 180 bucks if you want. i got two bottles then found out one itself is gonna last way way long.

3. get a paint brush, break it off around the metal crimp so its easy to hold. use it dipped in the isopropyl/distilled water solution to clean your stylus. otherwise your stylus drag the picked up dirt around the lp.

4. take a small block of thermocol and cover the flat edge with velvet which you can use as a scrubbing brush and one for rinsing. microfibre cloths available at food world for moping up the liquid. one cloth for the cleaning solution and one for the rinse. keep em separate.

regards
 
awesome! what's the cartridge on it?

clean your lps as grubyhalo has suggested. best way to reduce pops and ticks.

1. get a carbon fibre brush. sushil of nova audio can send you one or you can probably get one from arn systems, they do project. 600 odd bucks. brush the lp when its on the platter before every play. instructions come with the brush. basically you hold the brush to the lp rotating surface and after two revolutions drag the brush horizontally off the lp, taking the collected dirt with it.

2. make some cleaning solution immediately otherwise you'll damage your lps by playing em dirty. i have a spare bottle of isopropyl alcohol which i can give you for 180 bucks if you want. i got two bottles then found out one itself is gonna last way way long.

3. get a paint brush, break it off around the metal crimp so its easy to hold. use it dipped in the isopropyl/distilled water solution to clean your stylus. otherwise your stylus drag the picked up dirt around the lp.

4. take a small block of thermocol and cover the flat edge with velvet which you can use as a scrubbing brush and one for rinsing. microfibre cloths available at food world for moping up the liquid. one cloth for the cleaning solution and one for the rinse. keep em separate.

regards

I'm not sure what cart is on it as it has no name, is grey colored and a bit old. Still sounds quite awesome. PM me when we can meet - either your place or mine :). I'd gladly pick up that IPA bottle. I was using a very soft hair brush I got from health and glow for cleaning the vinyl. Thanks for the stylus cleaning idea. I do have a few old paint brushes sitting with me. For now I was just blowing away the dust on it using a SLR cleaner brush.
 
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