Why Audio Isn't Compelling to the Masses!!

It eases their anxiety of "Getting Left Behind".

while (we discuss others' behaviour)
{
I dont see anything wrong with that as a 'temporary' solution.
Of course the next more wise solution is a longer term solution.

And again ...
We cant talk as if building up a passive pressure towards implementing a longer term solution is OK.

But even if the longer term solution was implemented...
}
 
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My father was a music AND hifi lover, so I got my audio interest from him and never lost that enthusiasm even as my twin brother had years ago. I recently sent him a bookshelf stereo "executive system" because I couldn't stand listening to music on his crappy "boom box" stereo when I visited! It's not exactly hifi, but it sounds much nicer than screeching TV or portable radio speakers he has in his home. At least in my case, hifi/audio runs in the family!
 
I could only smile at those people who compare investments made on a watch vs sound. Both have a very extremely different utility!!!

A 'genuine' music lover is a big fan of a 'blissful sonic experience' that touches his inner self. He will only love the quality of the sound irrespective of whether it comes from a costly or a cheap speaker.

A watch admirer is a big fan of the adulation, ego ,personal identity that emanates out of buying a costly brand.
 
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Availability and lack of publicity also are important reasons for high quality audio being not so popular. I have NEVER seen any advertisement of Audio gear in any magazine, newspaper or on TV. Peaple are sitting on piles of money, waiting to spend it. Cars, clothes, watches,mobile etc,are much easily available and have been well marketed, so these are very successful in generating interest of the uninitiated. High end audio dealers are confined to big cities and there too, they have placed themselves on high pedestals. Perhaps it is a conspiracy, to keep it with limited exposure and make hefty profits. A Sonodyne(not so high end :eek:) showroom opened in Durgapur three years back. Everything flew off the shelves in no time. However, they wound up within a few months for reasons best known to them.
 
I could only smile at those people who compare investments made on a watch vs sound. Both have a very extremely different utility!!!

A 'genuine' music lover is a big fan of a 'blissful sonic experience' that touches his inner self. He will only love the quality of the sound irrespective of whether it comes from a costly or a cheap speaker.

A watch admirer is a big fan of the adulation, ego ,personal identity that emanates out of buying a costly brand.

You missed the point!

Appreciation of beauty can be (and is) for everything. That includes cars, bikes, toys, dolls, paintings, gadgets, jewelry, clothes, locations, food, people, and even watches.

Who told you a beautiful watch cannot touch the inner soul of a person?

I don't get paintings or art... but I'm sure folks who spend on expensive paintings don't do it to show off, but to enjoy and experience that beauty more intimately and on a personal level.
 
Music is a native form of art and the most difficult to be defined. It is admired by lot of people because it has the unexplainable power of lifting your spirits, emotions, healing your soul. Scientists are researching music in the field of neurosciences to understand how it creates a certain pattern of neuron firing in your brain which helps us get out of depression.

Watches, Cars , bikes are all architectural beauty which fall under the category of applied arts. Applied arts do give you a kick, but its a momentary joy and the effect is not carried out after the interaction point.

Hence to answer your question , Yes they do have an effect on touching your soul but not as profound and long lasting as MUSIC has it

Secondly, I think you overlooked my second line of the statement :)
He will only love the quality of the sound irrespective of whether it comes from a costly or a cheap speaker.

Lets take these two situations :

1) If tomorrow an unknown brand designs a watch which is a scientific marvel and looks architecturally aesthetic but sells at only 50% of the price of an exactly similar watch from TISSOT. How many of the watch admirers do you think will even try this watch?

or on the corollary

2) If TISSOT themselves make this great watch but sells it under two different labels, one at price X and the other at only 50% price of X. Which one do you think the watch admirers will buy?

You know the answer already!!!

A genuine music lover will never fall under any of the trap situations mentioned here.. However a brand conscious audiophile could be ...

My argument is for a music lover and not for audiophiles!!
 
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In simple English " Because you cannot show off" unlike your fancy BMW, MERC, RR, etc.

Many people do have the money buy cannot fathom the idea of spending a few 10 to 20 lakhs on a awesome music system and would rather spend that on real estate, or a car at least here in India.
 
In simple English " Because you cannot show off" unlike your fancy BMW, MERC, RR, etc

Equally likely that they just do not care. The SO is someone who spent a very long part of her life involved with music. She is not in the least interested in any equipment / gear.

Like I don't care about HT for instance and am reasonably content watching movies on a 14". Or my colleagues think any/ all cycling related expense is rubbish or as was pointed out upthreads others seemingly think that motorcycles do not move and merely transport. :rolleyes:

I think

You missed the point!
Appreciation of beauty can be (and is) for everything. That includes cars, bikes, toys, dolls, <snip>
I don't get paintings or art... but I'm sure folks who spend on expensive paintings don't do it to show off, but to enjoy and experience

gets it really right.

Music is a native form of art and the most difficult to be defined.<snip<> architectural beauty which fall under the category of applied arts. Applied arts do give you a kick<snip>
My argument is for a music lover and not for audiophiles!!

One could say that the western canon is no but branding ...



ciao
gr
 
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I dont want to argue here...but i think some brand conscious ppl here are bcmg self defensive...:)....and whatever that contradicts them are comfortably called just western canons....

Rather than showing disdain over other people thoughts...If somebody could really take the scenarios that i described and create a healthy argument to prove that it is not manifestation of personal identity i would be happy...
 
He will only love the quality of the sound irrespective of whether it comes from a costly or a cheap speaker

An oxymoron as low end/budget speakers can only deliver so much quality... or quality itself is subjective in which case again its an oxymoron like situation.

A watch admirer is a big fan of the adulation, ego ,personal identity that emanates out of buying a costly brand.

The same can also be true of fine folks who buy costly branded musical equipment... DACs, speakers, amps, cables, etc. Just because they are spending on music does not make them free of ego or the desire of adulation.

Music is a native form of art and the most difficult to be defined. It is admired by lot of people because it has the unexplainable power of lifting your spirits, emotions, healing your soul. Scientists are researching music in the field of neurosciences to understand how it creates a certain pattern of neuron firing in your brain which helps us get out of depression.

Anyone with even a modicum of knowledge of metaphysics, quantum mechanics, etc. will tell you its all inside of us and not outside of us... and music is outside of us. Also, the same music/same track has a different effect on different people, in fact no 2 folks will be affected by the same song the same way.

Anyways I'm 100% in agreement here... I believe music uplifts, heals, brings emotional well being, etc. and I for one listen to a lot of music, nearly 14-18 hours a day in fact. That said a long drive also uplifts me, ditto for meditation and self hypnosis, or going around the block for a quick jog, or being in the Dojang.

Anything that brings you joy and/or happiness will have the same effect on you and that can be art and even watches. In other words some folks can become extremely happy with a watch or a car, but the same song that gives you and me joy can/might give them a headache. I know for sure the rock music that gives me immense joy used to drive my parents crazy when I was a teenager. Thankfully, now I have my own music room so I don't drive them nuts. Now this is true for everyone who has been a teenager or has a teenager, and in this case you cannot say music heals or uplifts. The same scientists will classify the same music as having negative properties to hurt and cause negative emotion and even disease. Now of course the argument can be made against rock or metal music and in favor of more soothing music... but again music itself is subjective, I listen to different kinds of music from pretty much everybody else on this forum. So the entire testing methodology is flawed unless you restrict certain types of music to certain ages or ethnicities... again a flawed premise since it should show same or similar results (in ideal test conditions). This I guarantee does not happen... if each one of us lists our personal best 10 tracks, we will all end up with entirely different lists as no 2 people have the same music in common, at least not 100% of the time. In such a case the test itself is flawed or if you can attribute different people are made better by different forms of music then the same attribution must be applied to others too like horses, dogs, cats, trains, cars, and watches.

Watches, Cars , bikes are all architectural beauty which fall under the category of applied arts. Applied arts do give you a kick, but its a momentary joy and the effect is not carried out after the interaction point.

Hence to answer your question , Yes they do have an effect on touching your soul but not as profound and long lasting as MUSIC has it

I believe I have already answered your question... so yes the music that touches my soul does not touch my mother's soul... it in fact drives her crazy. Heck my selection of music will probably drive even you crazy... so where is the talk of all music touching everybody's soul. In which case its a flawed theory at best... medicines, drugs, cars, houses and watches on the other hand are a pass as they deliver the same results for everyone, at least their intended result of showing time, healing pain, transportation, etc. Of course the same car or watch will not touch everybody's soul the same way... but then that's also true for music right?

Lets take these two situations :

1) If tomorrow an unknown brand designs a watch which is a scientific marvel and looks architecturally aesthetic but sells at only 50% of the price of an exactly similar watch from TISSOT. How many of the watch admirers do you think will even try this watch?

or on the corollary

2) If TISSOT themselves make this great watch but sells it under two different labels, one at price X and the other at only 50% price of X. Which one do you think the watch admirers will buy?

You know the answer already!!!

The same can be said of music too. How many will go with a newcomer (no matter how good and talented) over a Lata Mangeshkar or Pandit Jasraj? Nobody (in their right mind) right?

You know the answer too right? The claim music touches the soul is wrong... rather its music from the likes of Lata Mangeshkar, Pandit Jasraj, Kishore or Rafi that touches the soul and not music from the neighborhood kid who sings in his/her bathroom or down at the local bar or hotel.

How many will run to attend a concert from Pandit Jasraj and how many will run to attend a concert by the local music teacher? So is this not brand recognition for music then? So how can brand recognition be wrong for Tissot and not wrong for Pandit Jasraj? Are not the so called genuine music lovers in this case loving music based on the brand and not on the music?

I dont want to argue here...but i think some brand conscious ppl here are bcmg self defensive...:)....and whatever that contradicts them are comfortably called just western canons....

Rather than showing disdain over other people thoughts...If somebody could really take the scenarios that i described and create a healthy argument to prove that it is not manifestation of personal identity i would be happy...

Don't take it personal, nobody here is trying to be personal. I am in fact trying to have a healthy argument and trying to show music cannot alone be given the criteria or the merit of being able to touch souls... even cars, paintings, beautiful locations (I once drove for half a day and reached a place where there was no one, not a single person. I sat there in complete silence and solitude for over 2 hours and that place has a profound effect on me even now when I think and go back there in my mind). Everything is down to personal preference end of the day... people don't like music or my kind of music and I don't like expensive watches, but saying I'm right and they are wrong is itself wrong. To each his own... if I find my nirvana in Nirvana (pun intended) then nothing wrong in others finding their nirvana in Tissot or Longines or even a Ferrari.

Anything that says my way or the highway is extremely archaic and should be out of place pretty much everywhere including HFV.

A genuine music lover will never fall under any of the trap situations mentioned here.. However a brand conscious audiophile could be ...

My argument is for a music lover and not for audiophiles!!

A person who is willing to spend lacs on speakers, DACs, amps and even wires cannot not be a lover of music. Seriously think on that... being an audiophile by itself qualifies that person as a music lover. I mean will you spend on anything expensive if it does not further or increase the joy you are going to be getting from using that product or service? No right? You will only spend on something that increases your joy and happiness (going off topic but everything we do in life is to get more joy and happiness, that's everything in life like houses, cars, clothes, jewelry, beautiful spouses and yes watches too).

I cannot see how an audiophile cannot be a genuine music lover... at least not 99.99% of the time.
 
I could only smile at those people who compare investments made on a watch vs sound. Both have a very extremely different utility!!!

A 'genuine' music lover is a big fan of a 'blissful sonic experience' that touches his inner self. He will only love the quality of the sound irrespective of whether it comes from a costly or a cheap speaker.

A watch admirer is a big fan of the adulation, ego ,personal identity that emanates out of buying a costly brand.

Sir,

How does one decide as to who is a music lover and who is not?

Let me give you my example I listen to music just one and a half hour a day, about 4 days a week. I have 3 fairly decent systems which literally bring the performers into my living room. For the duration of those 6 hours, I find myself totally immersed in the music, picking up very subtle nuances in the vocals and instruments. At the end of each listening session, I am completely satisfied with the pleasure that music has given me. I am very selective in the kind of music I play and only listen to stuff which has, to me, good intelligent poetry, melodious music, enjoyable vocals and good recording. The other times I listen to music is sometimes after dinner when I sit with my family and watch videos of old Bollywood hits. This too gives me a lot of pleasure, although it is somewhat different from my serious listening sessions. I do not normally indulge in casual listening where there is music playing in the background while I go about my daily chores, and absolutely never when I am driving.

My cousin on the other hand has his compo system blaring at him from the time he steps into his house, stopping only when he tries to catch up with his favourite soaps, and switches on his car stereo even before he starts the engine. He hardly has any preferences, listens to everything that emerges from the speakers, keeps switching FM channels frequently, and from the look on his face it is evident that he too loves music. Quantitatively, he listens to more music in a day than I do in an entire week. He has absolutely no desire to get himself a better hifi system, even though he can easily afford an expensive one.

So who, between the two of us is a real music lover, and who is not?
 
I dont want to argue here...but i think some brand conscious ppl here are bcmg self defensive...:)....and whatever that contradicts them are comfortably called just western canons....

Rather than showing disdain over other people thoughts...If somebody could really take the scenarios that i described and create a healthy argument to prove that it is not manifestation of personal identity i would be happy...


QFT

gr
 
Lets take these two situations :

1) If tomorrow an unknown brand designs a watch which is a scientific marvel and looks architecturally aesthetic but sells at only 50% of the price of an exactly similar watch from TISSOT. How many of the watch admirers do you think will even try this watch?

or on the corollary

2) If TISSOT themselves make this great watch but sells it under two different labels, one at price X and the other at only 50% price of X. Which one do you think the watch admirers will buy?

You know the answer already!!!

!

Well said !!! this is not applicable to Audiophile ( i think mostly )
 
Sir,

How does one decide as to who is a music lover and who is not?

Let me give you my example I listen to music just one and a half hour a day, about 4 days a week. I have 3 fairly decent systems which literally bring the performers into my living room. For the duration of those 6 hours, I find myself totally immersed in the music, picking up very subtle nuances in the vocals and instruments. At the end of each listening session, I am completely satisfied with the pleasure that music has given me. I am very selective in the kind of music I play and only listen to stuff which has, to me, good intelligent poetry, melodious music, enjoyable vocals and good recording. The other times I listen to music is sometimes after dinner when I sit with my family and watch videos of old Bollywood hits. This too gives me a lot of pleasure, although it is somewhat different from my serious listening sessions. I do not normally indulge in casual listening where there is music playing in the background while I go about my daily chores, and absolutely never when I am driving.

My cousin on the other hand has his compo system blaring at him from the time he steps into his house, stopping only when he tries to catch up with his favourite soaps, and switches on his car stereo even before he starts the engine. He hardly has any preferences, listens to everything that emerges from the speakers, keeps switching FM channels frequently, and from the look on his face it is evident that he too loves music. Quantitatively, he listens to more music in a day than I do in an entire week. He has absolutely no desire to get himself a better hifi system, even though he can easily afford an expensive one.

So who, between the two of us is a real music lover, and who is not?

It is the difference between a gourmand (the original definition) and a gourmet.
 
An oxymoron as low end/budget speakers can only deliver so much quality... or quality itself is subjective in which case again its an oxymoron like situation.



The same can also be true of fine folks who buy costly branded musical equipment... DACs, speakers, amps, cables, etc. Just because they are spending on music does not make them free of ego or the desire of adulation.

Exactly. That why I used the word genuine music lover. By genuine I meant people who attach more value to the experience than how much of money goes into creating that experience

Anyone with even a modicum of knowledge of metaphysics, quantum mechanics, etc. will tell you its all inside of us and not outside of us... and music is outside of us. Also, the same music/same track has a different effect on different people, in fact no 2 folks will be affected by the same song the same way.


Agree...This is a classical argument in the area of perception (the perceiver and the perceived). There is no perceived if there is no perceiver, which boils down to the argument that there is nothing called independent reality that exists . I would love to discuss on this further but not in this forum maybe :)


Anything that brings you joy and/or happiness will have the same effect on you and that can be art and even watches.

Of course the same car or watch will not touch everybody's soul the same way... but then that's also true for music right?


Agree. But I am trying to find out how influential is the case of personal identity in each of these cases. Which one has more of this and which one has less?


The same can be said of music too. How many will go with a newcomer (no matter how good and talented) over a Lata Mangeshkar or Pandit Jasraj? Nobody (in their right mind) right?

You know the answer too right? The claim music touches the soul is wrong... rather its music from the likes of Lata Mangeshkar, Pandit Jasraj, Kishore or Rafi that touches the soul and not music from the neighborhood kid who sings in his/her bathroom or down at the local bar or hotel.

How many will run to attend a concert from Pandit Jasraj and how many will run to attend a concert by the local music teacher? So is this not brand recognition for music then? So how can brand recognition be wrong for Tissot and not wrong for Pandit Jasraj? Are not the so called genuine music lovers in this case loving music based on the brand and not on the music?

Right. The majority of the population is like what you said. My intention in that question was to find , is there a genuine watch admirer who will love to collect watches only based on architectural value but not based on how expensive it is?

Everything is down to personal preference end of the day... people don't like music or my kind of music and I don't like expensive watches, but saying I'm right and they are wrong is itself wrong. To each his own... if I find my nirvana in Nirvana (pun intended) then nothing wrong in others finding their nirvana in Tissot or Longines or even a Ferrari.
Anything that says my way or the highway is extremely archaic and should be out of place pretty much everywhere including HFV.

I need your opinion here. Does that mean that judging art itself is a false concept ? An award winning movie will look to be a crap to someone who loves only larger than life commercial masala stuff. So should we measure this masala crap movie and the art film at the same level ?



A person who is willing to spend lacs on speakers, DACs, amps and even wires cannot not be a lover of music. Seriously think on that... being an audiophile by itself qualifies that person as a music lover. I mean will you spend on anything expensive if it does not further or increase the joy you are going to be getting from using that product or service? No right? You will only spend on something that increases your joy and happiness (going off topic but everything we do in life is to get more joy and happiness, that's everything in life like houses, cars, clothes, jewelry, beautiful spouses and yes watches too).

I cannot see how an audiophile cannot be a genuine music lover... at least not 99.99% of the time.

Correct but I have come across few ppl who hardly appreciate music , but still have a 10 lakh setup at home for music.
 
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The same can be said of music too. How many will go with a newcomer (no matter how good and talented) over a Lata Mangeshkar or Pandit Jasraj? Nobody (in their right mind) right?

You know the answer too right? The claim music touches the soul is wrong... rather its music from the likes of Lata Mangeshkar, Pandit Jasraj, Kishore or Rafi that touches the soul and not music from the neighborhood kid who sings in his/her bathroom or down at the local bar or hotel.

I think the comparision is not right ...we are comparing the end devices (teh created) ...speakers vs watches..

not the people who are either directly or indirectly involved in creating it !!!
 
Dear Bharatram,

Exactly the way you are standing up for your opinion on music, the others might do the same for things they are passionate about...equally cogent or asinine...the way you want to view it...

If my spirits are lifted or emotions otherwise altered by listening to music in what some might call 'crappy' system...what is wrong with that? Why should I go for 'sounds' coming from a high-end system instead of 'music' from a normal system...

Likewise, if I am ok with a bumpy ride from point A to point B in a 'crappy' car...why should I think about a Maybach?

Your basic premise, if I've understood it correctly, that music needs to be considered above all else and thus should not be compared with worldly and materialistic things like cars and watches is your opinion, not the universal truth. It is subjective...others might feel the same way about a different thing...while we may choose to disagree with them, we should not pass a judgment based on our yardstick.

But we digress many leagues from your original question, so let me attempt to veer back to that...

Like others have pointed out, there are several factors why the masses aren't 'compelled' by audio -
Awareness - Most of us started our 'audio' journey after being 'enlightened' by an audiophile or stumbled upon HFV courtesy google. We've been lucky to find a guide in a person or through this forum. How many yet are out there with the potential but no guidance?
Unhelpful dealers - Added to the fact is the general attitude of the dealers here who are either too snooty or ignorant to spend time to guide a potential customer. Even when they are 'helpful' most cannot go beyond the wattage and price of the equipment. Over the years, I've been shooed away by many dealers for asking too many newb questions or for not being deemed (based on appearance I feel) a potential high-value buyer.
Availability - How many true Audio brands do you see readily available? this leads to the next point...
Affordability - From the ones that are available, how many of them are affordable to the average Joe? leading to the next point...
Priority - You need to be really 'into' audio to be willing to spend on it. For most, in our economic and social structure, this would still be considered an unnecessary luxury, just like the Rolex watch or the Mont Blanc pen
Habit - For most, listening to music, is mostly a parallel activity, while on commute, work or generally playing it in the background. Most are still happy with lo-rez MP3s that are easily obtained from here and there. Even if you make them sit and listen to a highly tuned setup, they'd fail to see the hype...

I am sure I have missed out more crucial yet subtle reasons while ranting on the obvious...but I hope you see my point...

Just my Rs.0.02...
 
I think the comparision is not right ...we are comparing the end devices (teh created) ...speakers vs watches..

not the people who are either directly or indirectly involved in creating it !!!

But's the point right... according to you (and also me) the creation process or the quality of the product does not matter... only the name or the brand recognition matters. Tissot can make the same watch twice and sell one under their recognized brand name Tissot and it will sell and then sell under a new brand name X and it will not sell.

That's also true for the artists who create the music... it all comes down to their brand name. Once you know A. R. Rahman has provided the music, the expectations from the movie rise, but if its a new music director the expectations are low and this will again impact the box office success of the movie. In this case its not the person who has created the music but the product (the movie itself) which is impacted and even judged by different standards simply because of who the director or the music director is.

Only those folks buying expensive speakers and DACs are not guilty of the brand name game... even "ordinary" folks (like me and you) are guilty of the same.

Given this, how fair is it to snub those who are spending on expensive speakers and brand them ignoramus or show offs.

Everybody has their guilty pleasures...
 
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