Why do musicians have lousy hi-fis?

[asliarun]

I think unfortunately, I am now totally house trained. Last evening, I went to the open air concert at gateway of India, featuring Vikku Vinayak Ram, Shiv Mani, Selva Ganesh, Mandolin Srinivas and Shankar Mahadevan.

The sound was somewhere between unbearable and execrable. I can't believe anyone would stay on as a musician after listening to this sound.

Firstly, there is incredible bass. It is massive and dominates everything else. The rest of the sound is quite harsh. When Shiv Mani plays drums, even teh mildest tap produces a cannon like sound. If that is what people enjoy, then no wonder they turbo charge the bass. Such a concert has to be open air as the auditorium will break up if held indoors.

I also wondered where Shiv Mani has his mikes. Whatever he taps, be it a 20litre Bisleri bottle, or a suitcase, or an empty vessel, the sound is picked up cleanly, but when he taps his two sticks against each other, there is no sound.

Selva Ganesh plays Kanjira, but that too produced cannon like sound with the merest of taps. Only Mandolin Srinivas played with some style, and of course, there was No excess of bass there...

No way I can have sound like this at my home. Better be an audiophile.

Yes, it is a pity. However, there is some over-generalization in this thread too.

While many musicians are not concerned by the sound, many musicians are quite particular about it too. It all depends on the musician's perspective on their art. Someone posted about some rock bands earlier that are quite particular about the sound. It is entirely true. There are many musicians who obsess on the sound to the extent that they will spend hours and hours to prep, sound check, double check etc. before a concert. I remember for example a bunch of my local musician friends in India who were taken aback at the level of preparation and time that Opeth spent when they performed even in a very humble venue.

This level of preparation and obsession on detail makes all the difference between great live acts and average ones. And when I say bands, I include the entire crew as well. Plus, many of the live acts are not even just about music or sound. It is often about the entire experience. And so, many of the bands that are truly creative will even obsess about things like lighting, effects, artwork on CD covers, etc. But again, this is highly subjective - every musician and band has its own ethos.

Of course, there is the topic of talent and improvisation and *what* someone is really playing. Most classical musicians only seem to focus on that aspect. Probably because they have very little control of the sound themselves. Or they lack knowledge or don't care too much about it. I'm actually not sure.

It is also not just musicians who listen analytically and critically at the music (instead of the sound). Most people with sufficient knowledge of music (technical details) also typically tend to listen to music this way. Hence, the recording or the sound becomes irrelevant (relatively speaking). I guess another analogy would be that if a knowledgeable person would listen to the same song 50 times, they would prefer to listen to 50 different performances. However, an audiophile would prefer to listen to the same master tape in 50 different systems.

To put it another way, musicians and music lovers (more often) don't listen to the sound or even the music. They listen to the performance.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Hmmm... If you gave me one of those mythical tests, You have to give up live concerts or give up recorded music, I'd give up the recorded music.

(Probably. Those kind of black/white questions are always a bit silly)

 

[himadri]

Hi
If it takes a lifetime to tune in an amplified hifi system in a 12x14 feet room,just imagine how much of an effort it would take to get an equivalent sound in an amplified auditorium or open air amplified concert with hundreds or even thousands of listeners.But its the live music that matters in concerts and sound becomes secondary. Unamplified live music is a different matter and is the listening standard for musicians and non musicians alike.
cheers.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Professionals don't take lifetimes, nor do they need to.

Maybe there is no such thing as "perfection" in these things, but disasters such as the one that Gerry suffered just don't happen with half-decent equipment, competent organisers and sound crews.

 

[Shivam]

A lot of musicians are poorer than many audiophiles. Audiophiles who can be called audiophiles (those who have invested a large amount) obviously have deep pockets. Before disagreeging to this - will you consider a person with so called golden ears but an inexpensive Chinese boombox, an audiophile, without knowing about his/her ears?

Definition of lousy system? One of my friends who is a singer uses a system which in my opinion is high end but some other audiophile consider is just the entry level to high end. She uses a DAC which is a dream for me, but it is not anywhere near dCS or similar DACs.

Another analogy - Owning an expensive camera doesn't make one a photographer but using an inexpensive point and shoot surely puts one in the category of non-photographers. However a good photographer can create good photos on a point and shoot and view them on a basic display and understand the shortcomings.
(Now put this in the perspective of audiophiles and musicians.)

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

We probably should ban the word "audiophile."

We are music lovers --- and we like our music to sound as good as possible. Budget, and what we actually own, is a tiny part of that.

Musicians should care about what reaches the ears of their audience, because that is what they get paid for doing! It is a different issue from how they might listen to music themselves, at home.

My rant, above, is mostly aimed at the organisers and sound engineers at concerts, but I have a thing or two to say about musicians too. How can a person sing, professionally, for over half a century, and still not understand basic mic technique? For goodness sake, next to their voice, it is the most basic tool of their trade.

 

[Gerry_the_Merry]

Turbo charging of the bass was deliberate. It assumes that the musicians and organizers believe the audience likes that.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

very sorry to hear that. I'd have expected better of those musicians. I expect you did, too.

 

[MAYHEM_METAL]

Why do musicians have lousy hi-fis?
What rubbish...........Totally disagree with this invalid question or statement.

Hey Guys I roughly read the post and I can tell you I played in a live band for 6 years and I can tell you sound quality is very important to sound good as a band. I played at IIT MOOD INDIGO Rock competition 3 times with one of the best twin leads guitars during my time and bad sound ruined even thing. The third time we got lucky due to good sound. From then on sound was very very...........important to me. However good you and your band is and however the best instruments you have what finally matters is the overall main sound at the venue how well its set the way all instruments are balanced, over all clarity of sound and clean vocals. Band sound not balanced too much bass tearing screeching vocals can ruin all your hard work.

Years have gone by I dont play Live anymore but sound quality is very important to me and I try to have the best audio HiFi equipment as far as possible to recreate highest quality sound to sound live or as the recorded artist intended for his music to be listen and enjoyed

I have spend loads of my saving on decent good audio system etc. I dont mean to boast but we have a better ear for sound and tell a good system from a bad.
This is my opinion as a ex muscian

 

[asliarun]

very sorry to hear that. I'd have expected better of those musicians. I expect you did, too.

My thoughts (I may be wrong) - I think many classical musicians only focus on the skill part. Their goal in a concert or kach-cheri is to show their musical skills. They feel that the critical listeners are also focusing on judging their musical performance solely on their skill. Hence the musicians end up not caring about the sound.

Now again this is an over-generalization. Many/most of the popular musicians really play to the audience. They will typically obsess on their song selection so that all types of listeners can enjoy their performance. So I do agree that sound should be vitally important to just about any musician.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

I went to a friend's concert yesterday. It would have been so much better if they had just turned the PA off! There was only a few friends and family there, and we could have happily sat close and listened, without the encumbrance of unwanted echo and reverb from a bad hall, made worse because it was empty. She was not aware of how bad it had been for us.

I don't think that many of these musicians obsess about sound quality in the way that makes the whole hifi (especially "audiophile") market even possible, but they do want to be heard clearly, and they do want the timbre/tone of their instruments projected properly. A mridangist, for instance wants his left-hand gumki appreciated, not lost in blurred bass, just as he wants the nadam and precise sounds of his right hand to ring out.

I could say that some, at least, of the artists that Gerry names are now only interested in those big, fusion-type performances. On the other other hand, picking out Sivamani's name, never a classical musician, I would be very surprised if he did not care passionately about the sound reaching the audience. There is so much subtlety and variety in the sounds that he produces. point: he told a friend of mine, who did some learning from him, "If you love me, never practice on an electronic kit: only on acoustic drums."

 

[MAYHEM_METAL]

I went to a friend's concert yesterday. It would have been so much better if they had just turned the PA off! There was only a few friends and family there, and we could have happily sat close and listened, without the encumbrance of unwanted echo and reverb from a bad hall, made worse because it was empty. She was not aware of how bad it had been for us.
"

Yes that's the point we are on stage and think the sound guys with all his knowledge gives you the best sound. But sorry to say even after hours of sound test sometime these guys can mess it all. I do remember my band played at Goa at one show the sound was at first perfect. We went on stage second band and I was enjoying myself and suddenly realized few were closing their ears and seems to be in pain. For the next band I was part of the Audience and man the sound was disgusting my ears were ready to bleed. I realized my band sounded like SH&T horrible even though we played so well and the on stage monitors sounded perfect. The sound guy somehow over boosted the over all sound to unbearable limits.

Well you see we have no clue whats happening outside the guy at the mixer is to blame. Yes there are at times the guy at the mixer can make you sound just right. Most of the time my drummer and myself made it a point to sit down with the sound guy and get it right.

Well at least at home in my living room with dim lights I have the sound right, the volume loud but not deafening, the bass locked with the drums, all other instruments flowing and the singer presence in my room. Guess what I am the sound man now :yahoo:

But of course for this to happen and enjoy the source Lps, Cds or SACD have to be of high quality recording. Everything in the chain at home matters. Right from the needle to the cables etc etc right till it reaches the speakers. And finally the room acoustics.

No longer a live musician :sad: but happy to be a listener of good Music at home hyeah:

 

[magma]

heres my take

Most Musicians make money from masses not from audiphiles

Rahman once said
i listen to music on my SONY two in one ( while mixing and recording ) ... ermm well now JBL

because thats what most of my listners will listen to it on

this was also the opinion of Mr udit narayan

ofcourse these are not musicians but they are in the music business

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

The musicians that I watch would be delighted (and astonished) to see masses!