Why REL t9i, why not Definitive Technology Supercube 4000??....Please help me to decide....

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Hi friends,
Am new to 2.1 HiFi setup....my chain is Denon DRA 800H + Marantz CD player + KEF 300 speakers....am all the while looking to upgrade in the quest for better SQ and in the process getting myself educated (In what I should be buying now too) following the group here which I never knew before I had bought this equipage..
Dealers in my city, Coimbatore are suggesting to go for definitive technology supercube 4000 for my subwoofer need.... only lately I got to follow this page wherein @raghupb had given a exhaustive first hand experience of REL t9i....since this group has so many informed folks I thought this forum would be best place to get assistance from....TIA
 
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mshifi

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Hi friends,
Am new to 2.1 HiFi setup....my chain is Denon DRA 800H + Marantz CD player + KEF 300 speakers....am all the while looking to upgrade in the quest for better SQ and in the process getting myself educated (In what I should be buying now too) following the group here which I never knew before I had bought this equipage..
Dealers in my city, Coimbatore are suggesting to go for definitive technology supercube 4000 for my subwoofer need.... only lately I got to follow this page wherein @raghupb had given a exhaustive first hand experience of REL t9i....since this group has so many informed folks I thought this forum would be best place to get assistance from....TIA
hi, i am using the supercube 3 subwoofer for 2.1 and performs well. Havent heard the rel, but most are happy with rel for 2.1 channel. Best would be to listen and take a decision. If you able to get a demo of deftech in your city, it would be good.
 

raghupb

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On paper Supercube 4000 is promising. Has EQ too. Has oodles of power and claims 16Hz-200Hz.
Wonder how they have managed it with 8" active driver and 2x8" passive radiators.
If there is a chance to hear out this unit in your system, it would be an interesting listen.

REL T9i is good for music and passable for HT. Integrates well with KEF R300 and decent size rooms.
It is also forgiving about wall boundaries. Can be kept near walls (in fact REL suggests this as starting position).
No EQ, but has a 10" active driver and 10" passive radiator.
I think the in-room response of T9i is about 30Hz.

Cheers,
Raghu
 
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hi, i am using the supercube 3 subwoofer for 2.1 and performs well. Havent heard the rel, but most are happy with rel for 2.1 channel. Best would be to listen and take a decision. If you able to get a demo of deftech in your city, it would be good.
Sure, will try out....for how long have you had the supercube?....
 
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On paper Supercube 4000 is promising. Has EQ too. Has oodles of power and claims 16Hz-200Hz.
Wonder how they have managed it with 8" active driver and 2x8" passive radiators.
If there is a chance to hear out this unit in your system, it would be an interesting listen.

REL T9i is good for music and passable for HT. Integrates well with KEF R300 and decent size rooms.
It is also forgiving about wall boundaries. Can be kept near walls (in fact REL suggests this as starting position).
No EQ, but has a 10" active driver and 10" passive radiator.
I think the in-room response of T9i is about 30Hz.

Cheers,
Raghu
Yep...will try out how it performs in my gear if I manage rope in one....guess the technical element is one part for yet-an-amateur like me, but with hands on observation that you are having with REL T9i will go a long way in enlightening me
 

arj

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Wonder how they have managed it with 8" active driver and 2x8" passive radiators.

In the end the power of the sub is the amount of air it moves..since the Deftech is a 1200W ie 4 times the REL, it is able to move that air. The control for detailing might be the compromise at that price
 

Nitin K

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Hi friends,
Am new to 2.1 HiFi setup....my chain is Denon DRA 800H + Marantz CD player + KEF 300 speakers....am all the while looking to upgrade in the quest for better SQ and in the process getting myself educated (In what I should be buying now too) following the group here which I never knew before I had bought this equipage..
Dealers in my city, Coimbatore are suggesting to go for definitive technology supercube 4000 for my subwoofer need.... only lately I got to follow this page wherein @raghupb had given a exhaustive first hand experience of REL t9i....since this group has so many informed folks I thought this forum would be best place to get assistance from....TIA

I have not heard both the specific models mentioned but have had the Definitive Technology Prosub 1000 for around 2 years. While it was not a bad subwoofer but Def Tech's specs especially for subs are generally not true & accurate, a fact that is widely acknowledged by users on the net . It was supposed to go down to 18 hz . I didn't have the necessary software & tools to measure nor do I know how to do it but I had a track that is rated to go down below 20 hz & it failed to play it by a large margin. When I emailed Deftech about their wild claims of 18 hz, there was absolutely no response from them which also gave me a very clear picture of their customer service & claims.
The super cube 4 may be very compact & the output may be impressive for its size but I am sure it cannot deviate from the laws of physics. I would trust Rel & the user experience of fm RaghuPB which is evidently more authentic than the Def Tech's claims & specs. Rel T9i has had many satisfied users, especially for music. If possible hear both the subs & take a call.
 

insane79

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Hi friends,
Am new to 2.1 HiFi setup....my chain is Denon DRA 800H + Marantz CD player + KEF 300 speakers....am all the while looking to upgrade in the quest for better SQ and in the process getting myself educated (In what I should be buying now too) following the group here which I never knew before I had bought this equipage..
Dealers in my city, Coimbatore are suggesting to go for definitive technology supercube 4000 for my subwoofer need.... only lately I got to follow this page wherein @raghupb had given a exhaustive first hand experience of REL t9i....since this group has so many informed folks I thought this forum would be best place to get assistance from....TIA
Go for the T9i blindly. The definitive technology supercube 4000 spec sheet says 18hz but on what db? it could be 18hz on -8db? there is no point having a 1000 wats power amplifier on such a small surface cone area. Bigger the driver cone will give more air & not amplification.
I got 2 Rel S2 Subs which are similar to the T9i specs, very happy with them for my 300 sqft area. Don't go for those marketing specs that say 14-15hz & they don't mention the db.

Cheers.
 

raghupb

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Yep...will try out how it performs in my gear if I manage rope in one....guess the technical element is one part for yet-an-amateur like me, but with hands on observation that you are having with REL T9i will go a long way in enlightening me
Oh ....
When I started the hunt for a sub for music, I was clueless too.
Had tried sub (old Onkyo sub) in my setup earlier, did not work out the way it should have been.
Then re-tried with the help of another FM, but the same old Onkyo sub.
It did something good, but not meaningful enough.
That's what set off the hunt.

So yeah ... Explore the options in front of you.
Brands are one thing, availability in your city is another.
Keep the options open.

Cheers,
Raghu
 
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I have not heard both the specific models mentioned but have had the Definitive Technology Prosub 1000 for around 2 years. While it was not a bad subwoofer but Def Tech's specs especially for subs are generally not true & accurate, a fact that is widely acknowledged by users on the net . It was supposed to go down to 18 hz . I didn't have the necessary software & tools to measure nor do I know how to do it but I had a track that is rated to go down below 20 hz & it failed to play it by a large margin. When I emailed Deftech about their wild claims of 18 hz, there was absolutely no response from them which also gave me a very clear picture of their customer service & claims.
The super cube 4 may be very compact & the output may be impressive for its size but I am sure it cannot deviate from the laws of physics. I would trust Rel & the user experience of fm RaghuPB which is evidently more authentic than the Def Tech's claims & specs. Rel T9i has had many satisfied users, especially for music. If possible hear both the subs & take a call.
I too got inquisitive when Deftech supercube hardly cropped up during discussion in the group......with the kind of spec claimed by Deftech I reckoned it should be up there with T9i.... so, with so many informed folks out here we will know it's competence...

Go for the T9i blindly. The definitive technology supercube 4000 spec sheet says 18hz but on what db? it could be 18hz on -8db? there is no point having a 1000 wats power amplifier on such a small surface cone area. Bigger the driver cone will give more air & not amplification.
I got 2 Rel S2 Subs which are similar to the T9i specs, very happy with them for my 300 sqft area. Don't go for those marketing specs that say 14-15hz & they don't mention the db.

Cheers.
Your interpretation makes sense....with so many FM's around, a good prospect to make an informed decision

What size room is it?
What music do you listen to?
Why not a floorstander?
Room size is 20x12, No specific genre...I love genres according to mood on that particular day.....I am having a belief that bookshelves + sub would be an ideal combination, bookshelf can take care of highs and mids, so the sub can handle low (with mildly noticable heft) exclusively...

Oh ....
When I started the hunt for a sub for music, I was clueless too.
Had tried sub (old Onkyo sub) in my setup earlier, did not work out the way it should have been.
Then re-tried with the help of another FM, but the same old Onkyo sub.
It did something good, but not meaningful enough.
That's what set off the hunt.

So yeah ... Explore the options in front of you.
Brands are one thing, availability in your city is another.
Keep the options open.

Cheers,
Raghu
I was almost cinched on Deftech until I came across your thread.....so it awakened me to take an opinion....good that I did, never knew such intricate technicalities existed until I went through the posts..

Nevertheless, a good learning curve to own the best and breathe easy, so no room to crib later as far as the choice of equipment goes...

Thanks much
 

raghupb

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I was almost cinched on Deftech until I came across your thread.....so it awakened me to take an opinion....good that I did, never knew such intricate technicalities existed until I went through the posts..

Nevertheless, a good learning curve to own the best and breathe easy, so no room to crib later as far as the choice of equipment goes...

Thanks much
Yes. I got a lot of good opinions, advice from folks who have used REL subs in the past and present.
Cheers,
Raghu
 

Nitin K

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I too got inquisitive when Deftech supercube hardly cropped up during discussion in the group......with the kind of spec claimed by Deftech I reckoned it should be up there with T9i.... so, with so many informed folks out here we will know it's competence...

Pls don't make the same mistake that I did. It proved to be expensive along with a let down feeling with the purchase. I changed my entire Deftech setup within 2 years. Their Bipolar & other speakers of SM series are respectable.
But in the end everything goes out of the window when companies are not honest about their specs. But for your satisfaction, would suggest to hear both.
 

arj

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Sir

Kindly elaborate

Normally the woofer dia has a bearing on the "movement of air "

Wattage of the sub amp by itself may not be a complete information
I am sure you know the answer :)
yes because the Dia is smaller it needs more power to move the same amount of air, from what i understand is a ratio of the area of the drivers.
 

oldmonk

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because the Dia is smaller it needs more power to move the same amount of air



size, efficiency and bass extension
Back to top

Efficiency is inversely proportional to the moving mass and - proportional to the square of the product of cone area and BL.

No matter what we do, we have to balance these three basic parameters, size, efficiency and low-end extension, the trade-offs in loudspeaker building.

Size_bass-ext_eff.GIF

If size is not a limiting factor, we can get really low bass and very high efficiency.

If size is restricted, we have to sacrifice efficiency - or low-end extension.

If you want high efficiency - and small volume - you have to sacrifice deep bass.

Etc.

The thing is - we can't have it all. You have to pick your priorities.

From Troelsgravesen

Hope this sheds light...a lot of it.
 

oldmonk

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I hope the OP continues the discussion with his thoughts and decision.

Did not mean to derail the thread into something technical or physics related.
 

robin3989

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I am having a belief that bookshelves + sub would be an ideal combination, bookshelf can take care of highs and mids, so the sub can handle low (with mildly noticable heft) exclusively...
Usually, Subwoofers blend better with Floorstanders than Bookshelves unless BS has a reasonably good low end extension, but we all know that's rare. Otherwise you need a subwoofer that goes all the way up in the upper bass, and matches the amplitude of the BS before the BS's response starts to roll off.

I recommend REL T series subwoofers for this matter, because you supply the full range from the amplifier to both the Subwoofer and main speakers (either BS or FS), so the speakers play as they should (entire freq), and you choose to cross the sub at the point where you hear the mains start to fall short on low frequencies.I believe this is why REL users often see it more forgiving and easy to integrate to their speakers. Be prepared to not expect a lot of deep bass, because T9i is just a 10inch sub driver in an inefficient sealed box, equipped with a reasonable amp.
 

DB1989

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I would say REL for music anyday except i haven’t heard the deftech. Audition it if possible and perhaps you discover something that blows REL away.

In the end the power of the sub is the amount of air it moves..since the Deftech is a 1200W ie 4 times the REL, it is able to move that air. The control for detailing might be the compromise at that price
1200 watts of continuous power output or peak output? Its surprising that deftech does not disclose this even on their official website!

Hi friends,
Am new to 2.1 HiFi setup....my chain is Denon DRA 800H + Marantz CD player + KEF 300 speakers....am all the while looking to upgrade in the quest for better SQ and in the process getting myself educated (In what I should be buying now too) following the group here which I never knew before I had bought this equipage..
Dealers in my city, Coimbatore are suggesting to go for definitive technology supercube 4000 for my subwoofer need.... only lately I got to follow this page wherein @raghupb had given a exhaustive first hand experience of REL t9i....since this group has so many informed folks I thought this forum would be best place to get assistance from....TIA
Q300 or R300?
 
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raghupb

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Usually, Subwoofers blend better with Floorstanders than Bookshelves unless BS has a reasonably good low end extension, but we all know that's rare. Otherwise you need a subwoofer that goes all the way up in the upper bass, and matches the amplitude of the BS before the BS's response starts to roll off.
<snip>
Oi....
I have mated REL T9i to a system which runs KEF R300
Good integration. But these are not technically bookshelf speakers, other expansions of BS (maybe ;))
Cheers,
Raghu
 
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