€2k Metrum Onyx and a ₹4k DVD player DAC sounding the same!

[arj]

@arj, I thought bits were bits when using CD as a transport. Would appreciate if you can shed some light on how/where the colouring happens.

First of all a CD is not encoded as bits but as words and the reading is not like you would read a data cd but via an algorithm called Reed Solomon error correction and this is based on encoding with redundancy on the cd which can lead to different interpretations since its a real time read and not a data based read as in a data cd.
Hence variations can happen based on several factors including power/stability/vibrations etc etc. and thats the reason high end transports sound different.

You could read up on Redbook format and its decoding to know more, but if you think a entry level samsung dvdp (unlike something like an Oppo) will sound as good as a dedicated cd transport you may be barking up the wrong path since if your source itself is compromised, whats down the chain will be as well exponentially since each equipment adds its own distortion.

 

[soundbuff]

Hi,
I have compared the Metrum Onyx with the Topping D30 (to use a similar level of variation that you have used) using the CXC transport and while both are excellent performers at their respective levels, in terms of sound quality there was in my view little to compare. The Topping is impressively detailed but is harder sounding. The Topping has little by way of a sound-stage and there is really no background to contrast against. Again the handling of climaxes is far more composed in the Onyx, and while the topping is lovely for the price, it really does go to pieces with anything like a big crescendo. The quality of the bass is frankly at a different level of presence. The Onyx mid-range is so much more open. One can play the Onyx much more softly and still get a lot of information, which is lost with the Topping. I could listen to the Onyx for long periods with little fatigue, the same cannot be said for the Topping. I could probably go on, and all this is not meant to undermine the budget Champ, for it is not really fair to compare the two in the first place.
in sum, while your impressions do seem counter-intuitive, there is nothing wrong with that. Folks who intend to buy equipment at this price level (Onyx) have surely the right to go by what they are hearing.

 

[Naturelover]

I think it will also depend to some extent on how well you can hear the music.

My wife understands music far better than what I do.
She can make out any change in sound and tonality caused by changes in the chain far more than what I can.

I have also heard music with a few extremely knowledgeable guys. Some of them are on this forum.
The way they can hear nuances and minor details is something I can only dream of .

 

[jls001]

@arj,
@jls001, the coax cable is an Audioquest Forest (not using Canare connector) as provided by Metrum. Are you suggesting to use different interconnects?

Oops! I misunderstood. I thought you were using a coax cable which uses a Canare connector.

 

[hifipal4all]

In your setup the weak link is the transport (Samsung DVD player) ... Try the Onyx with an Audio CD player (any entry level/basic model is fine) as transport ... Your AQ Forest digital coax cable is decent but try with a different set of RCA cables too (not again any studio cables like Belden, Canare, Mogami, BlueJeans, VanDamme etc) ... Any other commonly available branded ones from AQ, QED, Chord etc ... Try this and give us your feedback.

PS: I am not against any studio cables but it's out of my personal experience I am telling the OP just to try ... There is nothing wrong in trying right

 

[atharva]

@arj, I am not suggesting that the Samsung is faultless. From what I've read there is no issue with the bits but jitter can cause issues.

As many of you suggest, my best bet is getting to listen to a better transport (and may be different speakers/amp/cables).

Any Pune members available this weekend and willing to lend some time with their good CD transports?

 

[himadri]

Hi
I have the Octave.The DAC is sensitive to transport, give it the best transport you can afford.The USB input is comparatively less transport sensitive than the SPDIF.
Cheers

 

[arj]

@arj, I am not suggesting that the Samsung is faultless. From what I've read there is no issue with the bits but jitter can cause issues.

As many of you suggest, my best bet is getting to listen to a better transport (and may be different speakers/amp/cables).

Any Pune members available this weekend and willing to lend some time with their good CD transports?

they are 2 different problems. its not the bits but the interpretation of the words read itself which is an issue due to the problems with the RS algorithm which mandates almost perfect realtime disc read which the samsung will not be able to do ..and then of course the jitter due to the clock which can still be partially resolved by a good PLL in the dac.

You should be able to hear the difference between that with your setup and should hear a vastly improved version. just try any Laptop FLAC output and my guess is that itself should sound better.

 

[spirovious]

@arj, I thought bits were bits when using CD as a transport. Would appreciate if you can shed some light on how/where the colouring happens.

Even hardware makes a difference.When l had compared Toshiba bdp with Pioneer, I found Pioneer had better warm even when l played music from Pen drive.Whether l connected it to DAC via coaxial out or connected avr via HDMI.Pioneer on every aspect sounded better and rounded.Toshiba on other side produced harsh treble.So imagine how dedicated CDP will sound.Now pen drive make also is another topic.Different brands with same songs do sound different.

 

[sunand777]

Now pen drive make also is another topic.Different brands with same songs do sound different.

Is it really a pendrive can influence in sound quality?

 

[spirovious]

Is it really a pendrive can influence in sound quality?

To me yes as I did compare .

 

[arj]

it depends on the read speed posible I presume ?

 

[sandeepmohan]

It is hard to say what it going on here and why there is no discernible difference in audio quality between two components that are poles apart. Then again, who thought a first generation Play Station would do wonders as a CD transport.

 

[arj]

I have heard the difference between a rega dac and metrum on a HD650 headphone as well as Rega Brio+Dali speakers at my brother in laws place, so there is a difference no doubt. If the point was that the samsung was more musical , it may have been understood.

Unless the Samsung is those one in a million miracles like the playstation 1 , which again was not known for the resolution but for the musicality.


I am not disputing the findings, just curious !

 

[hifitoaster]

To me yes as I did compare .

Which brand is then better? I have a sandisk crude blade. What should I upgrade to?

 

[spirovious]

Which brand is then better? I have a sandisk crude blade. What should I upgrade to?

I was happy with coresair.One senior forum member asvised Kingston DT and l found its better than sandisc, toshiba, coresair.
Same time, same system found dt50 16gb to be having dark background and better soundstage lt wont sound best out of the box.After a week very enjoyable.Tried in avr and bdp usb input.

 

[newlash09]

Hi Atharva...

Glad you took the courage to post what you heard, though it is against main stream opinion, which is heavily influenced by what something costs. And that includes me too

If I were in your place I would pocket the 2000 euro and live with the Samsung. You'd probably loose some bragging rights on the forum, but you will equal sound quality on a much lesser price. So it is for you to decide if you want to enjoy your music with the Samsung or brag about it with the Metrum

 

[rsjaurr]

As other have pointed out try a dedicated CD player or rip a CD to a laptop and play via Foobar or trial version of Audirvana.

Using a DVD player as source and reviewing a DAC is not a good idea bro. I have a Panasonic blueray player and SQ is far inferior as compared to flac files stored even on laptop.

But then if you are satisfied with the sound quality of DVD player feeding Topping just stick to this combo and save lot of money.

 

[atharva]

I got a chance to compare Samsung internal DAC, with Onyx, Denafrips Terminator and Topping D50. Honestly, I was still struggling to notice any difference. If at all may be very minor. Not a night/day difference.

When comparing Samsung transport vs Esoteric. I did feel that the Esoteric CD player (via Optical) sounded a bit better than the Samsung (via Coax). The Esoteric and the Onyx are both 50x the price of the Samsung.

The Exposure amp made a more noticeable difference in my setup. Exposure added clarity, separation and a bit more soundstage. But I feel that the clarity could get fatiguing after some time. It would be great to have the sweetness of the tubes with better separation and improved soundstage of the Exposure.

For now I'll stay with the Topping.

 

[tuff]

I feel the same way especially DAC varieties, that sometimes the cost to benefit ratio is quite small compared to amps or speakers. And the Topping is no slouch when it comes to measurements.