4 CDP's

[ajay124]

@Dr.Bass
During my journey as a human being,apart from learning many things about life,I also learnt a few things about reading betwwen the lines-of news,reviews,literature,history,love letters,e-mails,phone calls.Every communication has cues imbedded in them.The subtlety of these cues depends on the intelligence of the people involved in the communication.One reason I don't like mainstream cinema,books,music is because subtlety and the fine salt of irony,without which everything tastes 'pheeka',is completely missing.I find it embarrasing to sit through a mainstream movie because of the gross stupidity and vulgarity which permeates most formula films.
Back to 'reviews'.I totally agree with what you say.I do read a lot of them,but I take what I want from them,and accept that a lot of it is just hype.The H in HiFi most of the time stands for hype.
When I began this thread,I had very little idea of what I wanted from a cdp.By sifting through the text and the sub-text of everything I have read on this thread and otherwise,I have narrowed the options down to Accuphase and Esoteric.All other cdp's are OUT.Not to be considered.Until I can buy one of these two I will happily live with the Arcam,which by the way,is a wonderful cdp.It works extremely well in my current set up and the reason I am looking for an upgrade is the same reason that all addicts have-chasing a bigger high!
Several people/reviews have communicated the cue,that an Esoteric can be 'revealing',cold,lacking in emotion.An Accuphase is 'warmer'.I am sure there would be some substance to these cues,as so many people have voiced them.Based on these cues I feel an Accuphase would mate better with the Bryston's.But the cheapest Accuphase DP 400 quote is for 200K+,whereas I have located an Esoteric SA10 for a much more affordable price.Due to logistical reasons my 'esoteric' dreams may or may not come true,but I am in no hurry,as I am thoroughly enjoying my 7-8 hours of daily music.

 

[arj]

I would agree with Prems and Dr Bass's assessment and view on the Esoteric. but have a different view on the usage (Philosophically). the source should be as pristine and true as you possibly can afford to have. the rest of the chain..especially the amp-speaker interaction is what one would choose on tonality.
I personally (IMHO,YMMV etc etc) rate the Amp -Speaker interaction/ synergy a lot more highly than the individual components and often have been surprised by an optimal combination (Eg Krell-Sonus Faber) in this regard (on the lines of Sum of parts being better than individual), Hence, Frankly speaking, if asked an opinion on a Bryston-Vienna acoustic speaker combo, my first thought was that is not a great match, but that is obviously working very well for you..and you aint no spring chicken in Audio
Maybe since the house sound of the VA speaker is a detailed, pronounced Midrange, an articulate but lower (SPL) bass and an open high frequency (rolled off ?), adding it to the traditional neutrality/drive of a Bryston works.. i believe you should have a very good sound with the Esoteric.
. from what i can understand, the difference between warm/cold/forward/laid back is all a how the 300hz-5khz curve varies..it is very rarely a straight line (and nor is the ears reception curve !)

regarding reviewers, i share Dr bass's skepticism and have be fooled and biased in the past and the present as well..so reading through reviews of different reviewers can give a 30% view on the product through selective weeding.Thankfully the brand name of an Esoteric does mean something in terms of credibility.

I think you are in the right direction

 

[prem]

Hi Arj

I have heard quite a few amps at my place with the Esoteric. Classe, Rowland, Levinson. I did not like Classe and Rowland with the Esoteric. The JC1 sounded good. The Dehavillands i had sounded wrong with the Esoteric. At least with the Esoteric, you need an amp which can handle the info thrown out.

 

[Dr.Bass]

I would agree with Prems and Dr Bass's assessment and view on the Esoteric. but have a different view on the usage (Philosophically). the source should be as pristine and true as you possibly can afford to have. the rest of the chain..especially the amp-speaker interaction is what one would choose on tonality.

Interestingly I agree with Arj's philosophy but have a different point to make. Yes, a source should be as neutral as possible. But a neutral source means it should not only bring out the garbage part of the recording but also the melodious/musical aspect within it. An old bollywood classic CD should not be rendered unlistenable at the first place. While there is a lot of garbage in it, there is also a lot musical info which if brought out in right way/sense would be a pleasure to listen to. If a CDP (as Prem says) brings out more of the garbage and not enough musical cues then it obviously is also messing things up. It is NOT neutral. It is taking away something vital from music due to which it is left unlistenable. I cannot agree that RD Burman cannot be enjoyed on Esoteric players because they are clean and neutral, this is as wrong as a highly colored tube equipment is. One is adding the other is subtracting.
A really neutral source would let you enjoy bad recordings as long as there is some enjoyble content in it. And when you play good recordings you will be taken aback with how much more a CD can do for you. When there is only garbage only then one should get only garbage.

True neutrality is when the ratio of musicality and garbage is kept intact. If one has to err, it should be done consciously with due consideration of what his existing gears need so that the sum is closer to reality.

 

[prem]

Hi Dr Bass

What i meant is the Indian pressings of most old hindi film songs have been no noised and tampered with. This shows up on the Esoteric more than it does on a lot of other cd players. Whereas the same songs mastered by nimbus in England in the 1988-1993 period sound glorious on the Esoteric.

 

[Dr.Bass]

One more thing, I have heard players which are even more detailed than some Esoteric players I have heard but those details were presented without the dryness or clinicality of Esoteric players.

 

[prem]

In the right set up Esoteric does not sound dry or clinical at all.

 

[Dr.Bass]

In the right set up Esoteric does not sound dry or clinical at all.

Spot on Prem. Esoteric needs system matching. It errs on drier side hence needs some helping from the electronics down stream to really make a winning combo, a good tube amp would be my recommendation but then not everyone can play the all out game. Mostly people would expect it to be a plug and play with minor changes in cables at most. Would be interesting to know what Ajay thinks about this.

 

[prem]

Hi Dr Bass

I completely agree with you that Esoteric is not a plug and play. Which is why i have been trying to get Ajay 124 to at least listen to a couple of Esoteric set ups. This becomes even more critical since he now seems to be really enjoying his system. I strongly feel once you have got the synergy you must not try and fool around too much. An Esoteric or for that matter some other cd player might mess up the balance again.

 

[ajay124]

What I think is that since I only want to buy an Accuphase DP 400 or an Esoteric SA 10 and I cannot afford the former,I would be :yahoo: if I could get the Esoteric SA10.
If I could hear both of them in my system for even 15 minutes each,I would be able to make a clear decision.Since they are at different price points,maybe the DP 400 is a better player.In fact if you consider it's price it is more in the league of the XO series rather than the SA series of Esoteric.
Finally,I think that either of the two,would be a major improvement over my Arcam,and would be the last cdp that I ever buy
@prem
I wish I was in Mumbai and could listen to your system!
I think that I would like a completely honest,revealing and transparent cdp.If my recordings are revealed to be bad I would change them.I am fairly confident that most of my western classical cd's from the major philharmonic orchestra's of Western Europe,have been recorded in venues with great acoustic's and have been engineered professionaly.Not so sure of the rock and jazz cd's,especially the live recordings.

 

[prem]

Come over Ajay 124. You can stay at my place.

I have not heard the Accuphase 400 but my gut feel tells me the Esoteric SA 10 will be a better buy. Also since you listen to a lot of western classical you will really enjoy the sacd versions on the Esoteric.

 

[arj]

The bryston can be considered neutral, the VA speakers are what might provide the extra Oomph expected out of the amp
i can understand Ajays predicament about wanting something good..and not getting a chance to audition it with his system :sad:

i have been trying to search it out, but i remember reading about an audiophile with a Bryston amp and PMC speakers using an Esoteric cdp and loving it..unable to find it now. Bryston-PMC were supposed to synergize well, although the speakers definitely cannot be described as warm

 

[ajay124]

@arj
Your description of the VA house sound was quite good.
My honeymoon with the VA's is still going as strong as the day I 'married' them
With every change of amp,source,cables,placement,they seem to add another layer of detail and resolution.
I think the marvelous build quality of their cabinets is a major plus,taking them into a league far beyond what their tech specs may suggest.
I thought that the 4 B SST would be a bit of an overkill for them.But even played at party volumes the speaker's sound completely relaxed and happy.
They seem to be saying --Bring on something bigger and better and we will get bigger and better!
Vienna Acoustics - high end speakers and loudspeakers for your home theatre
Some links to discussion's about amp pairing with the VA's.
AudiogoN Forums: amp/preamp to complement Vienna Acoustics?
AudiogoN Forums: Amp for Vienna Acoustic Mozart speakers
McIntosh and Vienna Acoustics? - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

 

[arj]

@prem
I wish I was in Mumbai and could listen to your system!

Ajay, this is something i really really want to do as well !. hope to make it happen..I love the whole philosophy behind prem's system which includes a source i dream of having someday !

 

[prem]

Hi Arj

You are most welcome to come over and stay at my house.

 

[ajay124]

The ESOTERIC is coming....soon....feb end
With the recent changes....
the 4B SST
cleaning up the power supply
moving the speakers forward to 5 feet from the back wall
the Arcam is 'singing'.
Will be a sad moment when I part with it.
But neccessary to part pay for the SA10.

 

[anm]

mubaraq ho! What are you planning to do with your arcam?
HeliumFlight on this forum was looking for a good cdp. Maybe you can hand it over to him. He would take good care of it.

 

[ajay124]

mubaraq ho! What are you planning to do with your arcam?
HeliumFlight on this forum was looking for a good cdp. Maybe you can hand it over to him. He would take good care of it.

I will be getting the Esoteric in the last week of February.
Have suggested the Arcam CDP to my cousin and another friend.
Both of them at the moment have their laptop's hooked to an amp.
I am planning to put up the Arcam for sale soon on the forum also.

 

[ajay124]

Since the Esoteric SA 10 plays sacd's I will be on the lookout for reasonably priced western classical music in this format.Till now I have been purchasing red book cd's based on the composer.My new focus would be on purchasing sacd's based on the musicians and conductor's.
Any inputs on sacd's and also xrcd's?
Beginning my research with google no.1:
Wikipedia
Extended Resolution Compact Disc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Super Audio CD - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[malvai]

try elusivedisc.com
they have a whole lot of western classical and jazz SACD's... they even give a 10% discount if your purchase is over USD 400...