A lack of common sense/civic basics

Yes, indeed Thad. How could I miss Dr. Kalam out? Definitely, yes.

But the thing is, this country first needs to be disciplined before a very sane and modest leader takes control. And to discipline most of the rogues who damn hell care for the country as such, requires a dictatorial stance, which can't be expected from a thorough gentleman as Dr. Kalam.


Here's the foreigner poking his nose in again to say...

I'd go for someone with the chasma of ... Adbul Kalam.

I believe that he was one of the world's great statesmen.
 
I whole heartedly disagree to this. I am attaching this document which will help in understanding why I am supporting corruption.

Hawala is the transport medium for black money as the doc says. Do you know that the profit from this Hawala money funds terrorism today and tomorrow the local bomb blast that you are caught in may be organized with proceeds of your Hawala transaction?

HTH
Regards
 
The list will go on into many 100 pages. I am sorry to see the modern media and education has influenced you to such a degree that you only remember Adolf! This is what Macaulay-ites in media and education intend even today - to make Indians forget their past cultural legacy. And you are an instance of their success.

Gobble,

This is a quote from Macaulay which I remember reading a while back:
""It is impossible for us, with our limited means, to attempt to
educate the body of the people. We must at present do our best to form
a class who may be interpreters between us and the millions whom we
govern; a class of persons, Indian in blood and colour, but English in
taste, in opinions, in morals, and in intellect. To that class we may
leave it to refine the vernacular dialects of the country, to enrich
those dialects with terms of science borrowed from the Western
nomenclature, and to render them by degrees fit vehicles for conveying
knowledge to the great mass of the population."

Gels well with your observation of how Macaulay intended the Indian education system to be. Of course, the quote is taken out of context and was made in the larger setting of why the English empire needed to impart education and avenues in government for 'natives'. But in general, from the varied writings I've read from the British people of that time, there is a uniform sense of superiority they had about their science and civilisation, and a sense of disdain and incredulousness for the rituals and 'barbaric superstitions' of the 'Hindoo' and 'Musalmaan'. A disdain, which to this day, I do not think has completely disappeared.

-Jinx.
 
Here's the foreigner poking his nose in again to say...

Hi Thad E Ginathom - we live in a global village - in this day and age - where you choose to live and work - there you are resident, and part of the whole scheme of things.

in those early days - when travel to foreign lands was fraught with danger and difficulties - and difficult communication was a cause for concern - labeling oneself/another as a FOREIGNER would have made sense -

but today?

regds
 
...labeling oneself/another as a FOREIGNER would have made sense

Just I try to maintain a little humility in this respect. I have chosen India; India permits me to live here. I do not believe in taking on boards the sins of one's ancestors who were dead long since, but I do feel a little self concious, especially when I get into complaining about India, that I might be seen not only as a foreigner, but also as a descendent of those who did so much harm to this country.

On a day-to-day basis... I don't think much of it.... I'm just me! :)
 
I do not believe in taking on boards the sins of one's ancestors .

absolutely - there are no good people or bad people - only people who do good things and bad things - and the circumstances dictate their actions!

so let us forget o:)ur ancestors - and let us (you and I) strive to be better ancestors to our great-grandchildren!
 
Gobble,

This is a quote from Macaulay which I remember reading a while back:
""It is impossible for us, with our limited means, to attempt to
educate the body of the people. We must at present do our best to form
a class who may be interpreters between us and the millions whom we
govern; a class of persons, Indian in blood and colour, but English in
taste, in opinions, in morals, and in intellect. To that class we may
leave it to refine the vernacular dialects of the country, to enrich
those dialects with terms of science borrowed from the Western
nomenclature, and to render them by degrees fit vehicles for conveying
knowledge to the great mass of the population."

Gels well with your observation of how Macaulay intended the Indian education system to be. Of course, the quote is taken out of context and was made in the larger setting of why the English empire needed to impart education and avenues in government for 'natives'. But in general, from the varied writings I've read from the British people of that time, there is a uniform sense of superiority they had about their science and civilisation, and a sense of disdain and incredulousness for the rituals and 'barbaric superstitions' of the 'Hindoo' and 'Musalmaan'. A disdain, which to this day, I do not think has completely disappeared.

-Jinx.

Well this is going OT, but there is enough evidence and literature to suggest that science was not born in the west. And that Europe only picked up from technical achievements of Asian cultures primarily China. The "scientific revolution" they talk about was a revolution only for their society - which remained backwards for centuries and behind Asian civilizations in manufacturing, production and technology. That is not to discredit the drivers within their society that have led them to today's achievements - they have borrowed, improved, excelled and returned the new benefits to Asia as well. It was a global process of exchange of ideas and technological improvements. They were really latecomers on the scene who rapidly overtook Asia in the last few centuries.

However this is radically different from what we Indians are "educated" about. The mis-education implies that something inherently superior about their society intrinsic to their values and civilization is the reason. and that Asia has always been inferior - which is one terribly big lie. If anything we excelled over them in almost everything.

Today of course we wholeheartedly accept and acknowledge their achievements and progress. We no longer have the institutions that foster excellence like they do today but if you dig deep you will find that its not like we never did. They have been destroyed today whether deliberately (mostly) or otherwise, and we are in shambles, left to stumble in the rubble left behind.

I would certainly hold them as role models for many things without consideration to the past, but that does not mean accepting lies and untruths that cause damage to ones cultural psyche and weaken our own inspiration for tomorrows children.

Cheers
 
Sachin_k5 - complaining to the local MLA? Please tell me you are kidding! :)
The politicians are the problem.

Just to give another perspective on this: Here's an American politician questioning whether Guam will tip over because of excess population.
YouTube - 3-25-2010_Hank_Johnson_Guam_Tip_Over.wmv

I think it's not just in India that absolute idiots with no capability or thought process are in seats of power...maybe it's a human disease...in which case Suri's ninja army may be the quickest solution :cool:
 
Just I try to maintain a little humility in this respect. I have chosen India; India permits me to live here. I do not believe in taking on boards the sins of one's ancestors who were dead long since, but I do feel a little self concious, especially when I get into complaining about India, that I might be seen not only as a foreigner, but also as a descendent of those who did so much harm to this country.

On a day-to-day basis... I don't think much of it.... I'm just me! :)

No sweat! We are proud of you knowing what you do in India! I am certain all forum members agree with my very personal sentiments!!

This is your home, and I trust you will never spend a minute feeling like an alien or phoren! :)

cheers

Edit: And its not like we go around with a chips stacked on our shoulders sky high, glaring at every foreigner with an accusing look ... "You! you are responsible for my state of affairs ... if it weren't your ancestors .. blah! blah!" :)

All such discussions are only of intellectual interest in trying to make sense of the past ... :)
 
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Or we let the transgender population of india take over all the other countries, their indian numbers are more than entire populations of countries probably :)
 
Am curious, captain. If you are not a fan of democracy and also not a fan of military regimentation (as per your earlier post) then what form of governance do you think is better?

Hi Bala,

On the hindsight, I think I should have said Long live Indian Democracy.

Martial Rule is really bad. That is what is military regimentation all about. So as a freedom loving person it is logical to desist it I guess.

Democracy is the way to go but not the Indian way. As a free citizen one has much more responsibility that the one in a country like China.

Unfortunately, we have evolved a form of democracy which has given too much freedom with too little responsibility. Imagine the repurcussions!

At individual level, what we see?

Most of us have scant regard to the rules and regulations and even fellow citizens.

We wear a perpetual frown on our faces when on the roads, heck with courtesies and nicities.

We talk on our mobiles loudly oblivious to the plight of others around. This could be anywhere, from trains & buses to movie halls.

We spit & pee almost everywhere.

We just jump the queue; those who are in there are fools you see.

Traffic lights are to be obeyed only if a cop is lurking around.

There are many more which you all know.

At political level

My foremost job is to get back the returns on ill gotton black money I invested in the elections.

Next, all my kith & Kin will get a lion's share of all the government's projects.

Yes, I also want to give them whatever plum posts available that I can lay my hands on.

Oh, yes I have to groom my son, my daughter (both legitimate& illegitimate), my keep's brother and his son to take over the reins later.

How do I consolidate my position? Arouse Regional, Religious and Casteist passions; At what cost? I don't care; not my problem.

How to tap the votes of a certain religion? Simple, appease them. Whatever they do is right. If there is some blatant wrongdoing, just look the other side.

Whatever their countering forces do must be given the communal color. Viola, I'm branded the saviour, the massiah. The other religion is made up of so tolerant and rational minded fools that most of them will believe you anyway and turn their back on the very own people who have taken cudgels.

And yes, I love criminals. They are so effective in getting votes.

Megalomania, Linguistic Chauvinism, Religious Jingoism are our birth rights.

There is much more but I think these are sufficient for me to justify my disillusionment with Indian democracy. Hope I answered you Bala.:)
 
You know that my views are absolutely similar, Captain! I just wish somebody had a better solution to this entire spiralling mess! :)
 
After seeing the post of suri and corelement, i stomach has been sent to the death by laughing and my ears were getting tears splitting all over, cant able to control my laughing.

Please add me master suri, Ninja The Assasinater. I will join you in your program of Shining India, when u return from japan. Also, please teach us the ninja classes at your camp. At any cost thisway or anyway for the Shining India, i will join you master suri, Ninja The Assasinater.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
A beautiful, well-constructed speaker with class-leading soundstage, imaging and bass that is fast, deep, and precise.
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