A quick poll on role of DAC and Dynamics

[gobble]

Of late I have been imagining that a DAC also plays a role in how good the dynamics of a system are - not just the AMP and preamp. This is possibly due to the "unforgettable" memory of the TT I was lucky to have during childhood where I could easily attribute this to the source. No DAC here since its analogue, but the idea is stuck in my head that the source plays a role in how the rising amplitude of the signal is captured and relayed. Then it may be the poor quality of digital recordings that have been "normalized" to have a flat range - that result in lack of sheer dynamics in my setup.

Expert comments and opinions?

--G

 

[jai1611]

I'm no expert but I have noticed a substantial difference between sources in terms of dynamics. I have found tubed output stages to be better than solid state ones. To be fair though, the price range of tubed sources I have tried in my system has been significantly higher than the solid state ones.

 

[venkatcr]

This seems a good thread to re-start my old discussions on the advantages of going digital. Listen to what Srajan Ebaen says in his review of Wyred4Sound DAC2

Final word: With a 21.5-inch 1TB iMac selling at $1.499, the addition of the same-priced Wyred DAC2 makes for a remote-controlled modern music source that not only slaughters legacy digital on convenience, it should sonically outperform any $3.000 CD player you care to name. That future really is here now. Why not get with it?

As the prior data density example for true 24/192 files showed, PC audio allows access to music material which was recorded with up to 10 times more data than 16-bit/44.1kHz CDs. Unless your current player incorporated a 24/96 or higher USB/Firewire digital input, you cannot take advantage of such material. The iMac (or equivalent) with the DAC2 can. Then it adds far superior interactivity for what in this context is a 'transitional high-end' price. That's real reason to celebrate, ain't it?

I have been using a PC with Asus STX card, and using EAC to rip all my CDs. In auditions using a Arcam rDAC, the PC sound has consistently beaten CDPs costing up to a 75K or more. The PC combination creates a three dimensionality that is very difficult for any CDP to deliver. This is just one aspect. Other aspects are clarity, depth, larger soundstage, tightness, etc.

I am in the process of shortlisting a DAC that I can use permanently. I was looking at the Emotiva XDA fondly, but not very convinced of the reviews I have seen.

Cheers

 

[spirovious]

Adding different thing,I am using "Tube sound' as DSP with Foobar 1.0.(portable)
I find sound more enjoyable than without it.If someone uses a similat setup with PC+DAC,he can judge better than me.
Can anyone try this(Tube magic)?

 

[vivek.saikia]

Adding different thing,I am using "Tube sound' as DSP with Foobar 1.0.(portable)
I find sound more enjoyable than without it.If someone uses a similat setup with PC+DAC,he can judge better than me.
Can anyone try this(Tube magic)?

Thanks Spirovious for bringing this up. I have just downloaded the tube sound DSP for foobar2000 and I have started liking the sound.:thumbsup::signthankspin:

 

[vasishta.sushant]

To each, his own. I like my sound to be as pristine as possible. So not even equalizers, leave alone DSPs. But I do agree, going the PC way seems a lot more logical.

Only if I could find a remote that could control my foobar on my netbook

 

[spirovious]

Thanks Spirovious for bringing this up. I have just downloaded the tube sound DSP for foobar2000 and I have started liking the sound.:thumbsup::signthankspin:

Thats good.I find sound clean & digital touch is very less.I have configed Tube sound as-
Preamp= -3.0
Amount= 0.427
Asymmetric= -7

Rest as default.Try yourself & sound can be still better.I have tried asio(asus)which gives better vocals.Output as DS is more enjoyable with balanced freq.s.

 

[gobble]

Guys

This thread is about the role of DACs with regards to Dynamics and nothing else. <Nudge> <Nudge>

Now recollecting your experience of gear with great dynamics, lets hear the opinions on how much the DAC matters here.

--G

 

[arj]

Hey Gobble,
Not sure if this is what you are asking , but IMHO, dynamics start with the source (Transport/DAC) , but do not end there. In the end dynamics are extracted by the transport, converted/relayed by the DAC, amplified by the amplifiers and played by the Speakers.
if any of the above in the chain do not do the job well in terms of dynamics the entire system will sound relatively duller/flatter

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Until it becomes analogue, your music is not music at all, it is just bits. The DAC must matter absolutely!

 

[spirovious]

Until it becomes analogue, your music is not music at all, it is just bits. The DAC must matter absolutely!

But with better source file & extract/transport.

 

[hydra]

OT:

Only if I could find a remote that could control my foobar on my netbook

I see from you signature that you have a Dell Streak.

There are quite a few Android apps that can be used to control Foobar: https://market.android.com/search?q=foobar+remote&so=1&c=apps

I haven't used any of them myself, but I remember seeing a few discussions on computeraudiophile forums.

 

[pdhanwada]

To each, his own. I like my sound to be as pristine as possible. So not even equalizers, leave alone DSPs. But I do agree, going the PC way seems a lot more logical.

Only if I could find a remote that could control my foobar on my netbook

I was in the same boat as you. Remote for PC or the display system of the pC not so good. For the same reason I choose Squeezebox touch. Absolutely love the setup.

If want to use foobar as the source I saw wireless keyboard and mouse should help. But again they are not remotes.

Thanks
Pandu

 

[Bluu]

In my mind, a good DAC can have massive impact on the way a system sounds. At an audition at ARN, I was listening to the Jaton pre/power combo with the Odyssey Syren loudspeakers. The DAC being used was the onboard one in the Jaton preamp (RC7000). I found the whole experience to be kinda flat and dull. I remember telling Sridhar that the entire mid-range seemed to be "hollow". He smiled and proceeded to make some changes to the setup. Suddenly, the sound was full, bold and punchy!

When I asked him what he changed, he said that he disabled the onboard DAC on the Jaton and plugged in a super high-end PrismSound DAC. With all other components remaining the same, the sound was completely and utterly on a different level.

Obviously, one can argue that the Jaton is an el cheapo entry level preamp ($500 I think) while the PrismSound is many zeros more. Still, fact remains that a superior DAC had an unforgettable impact.

 

[ravi_d]

To each, his own. I like my sound to be as pristine as possible. So not even equalizers, leave alone DSPs. But I do agree, going the PC way seems a lot more logical.

Only if I could find a remote that could control my foobar on my netbook

I was in the same boat as you. Remote for PC or the display system of the pC not so good. For the same reason I choose Squeezebox touch. Absolutely love the setup.

If want to use foobar as the source I saw wireless keyboard and mouse should help. But again they are not remotes.

Thanks
Pandu

I own HTC Desire and I use some foobar2000 controller application which I purchased from Android market. Its easy to set-up and fun to use.
The remote application works as if I'm playing from my HTC Desire through its media player. It shows album art and even have options to edit the playlist and access the computer drive to add tracks to play list.

 

[hydra]

...
I have been using a PC with Asus STX card, and using EAC to rip all my CDs. In auditions using a Arcam rDAC, the PC sound has consistently beaten CDPs costing up to a 75K or more. The PC combination creates a three dimensionality that is very difficult for any CDP to deliver. This is just one aspect. Other aspects are clarity, depth, larger soundstage, tightness, etc.

I am in the process of shortlisting a DAC that I can use permanently. I was looking at the Emotiva XDA fondly, but not very convinced of the reviews I have seen. ...

Great to know this Was the DAC connected through the Coaxial out or the Optical connector?

I'm going along the same direction (Music PC based on a Xonar STX) and I'd be very interested to hear your experience with other DACs.

Right now, I personally plan to try out the PC (the PC will be ready only in about a week) with the analogue outs of the Xonar STX, and then go for a sub $1000 DAC in about a year, if the analogue outs don't cut it for me.

My personal experience with DACs is very limited (= with my Beresford Caiman only) but from what I've experienced, the addition of a DAC can make a huge difference (= improvement) in how a set of equipment sounds.

 

[stevieboy]

Gobble,

My experience is that a good DAC does add to the sound quality, even if fed by a lowly CD player transport if one does not have the funds for a dedicated transport. But like Arj says, ultimately its down to the entire system. If you're thinking of a good DAC, it should definitely up your musical enjoyment.

regards

 

[venkatcr]

Great to know this Was the DAC connected through the Coaxial out or the Optical connector?

Coaxial. Though I have a VDH Optical cable, I have yet to try it out.

I'm going along the same direction (Music PC based on a Xonar STX) and I'd be very interested to hear your experience with other DACs.

I have tried three DACs: DAC1 from Benchmark, DacMagic from CA, and rDAC from Arcam. I have found the DAC1 to be the best, though the sound may be considered a little dry and harsh. The clarity and soundstage that the DAC1 creates is phenomenal. rDAC's sound is more warm, though it does struggle to create the soundstage and, at times, misses out on the details and clarity. The DacMagic is in a much lower league.

Cheers

 

[hydra]

Thanks, @ventakcr!

Actually the Benchmark DAC1, the Musical Fidelity M1DAC, and the Arcam rDAC (though the three are at three different price points) were the 3 DACs I was reading up the most on. The Wyred4Sound also seems to be a pretty good DAC, but it is a bit too expensive for me to consider (even at "phoren" prices).

About the rDAC, I saw a few posts on some forums that say the optical input sounds really bad, with the coaxial input sounding pretty good, but not as good as the (async) USB input. The computeraudiophile review also mentions the same thing. But generally, everybody seems to be agreeing with your assessment: That it sounds warm, has a somewhat narrower soundstage than most, and is a bit hesitant to "let it rip" even when the program material requires it to. Another aspect I've seen mentioned consistently is that it misses out a bit on speed and dynamics. But even with these shortcomings it is considered to sound very good overall. It also reportedly benefits a whole lot from a better power supply, with the Teddy Pardo supply being the favored one (on UK forums).

Sorry for derailing the thread, @gobble

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

Right now, I personally plan to try out the PC (the PC will be ready only in about a week) with the analogue outs of the Xonar STX, and then go for a sub $1000 DAC in about a year, if the analogue outs don't cut it for me.

Not adding a DAC, but changing the DAC. Remember, you sound card is a DAC!