Accuphase is home

[Staxxx]

..I still regret the day I had to sell my Coltranes (but you can understand that sometimes we need to do this), for 30% of what I bought it. High-end hifi is a tough sell anywhere in the world. However happy with the Django model now. As one reviewer put it 80% of the sound for 20% of the price. The Lars must have been exceptional amps - never got to hear them!

Sorry this is getting OT. Just to say, if you can, Ranjeet try and audition the Django L as well. It is somewhat in the same price range of the other speakers you have mentioned (Mira, Kharma etc.).

 

[fhbadv1965]

Details coming up

Agree the word Synergy is very very important, plays vital role if you want the optimum Hi End well balanced, smooth, detailed sound that should be more a less close to being acceptable to hear all kind of music. The source varity of different type of music / recordings must be excellent wether Vinyls or Cds this is critical during evaluting understanding evry aspect of getting every ounce of the finer inner details, nuances, involving, warm, airy, deep tight bass. slam, attack, speed, transparent sound, musicality that should touch your heart, soul, make you listen to more and more music without fatigue, that's the point at which you will thoroughly enjoy listening to your entire collection of GOOD recordings

 

[grubyhalo]

The Selah Tempesta would be another good example I guess. RAAL ribbon, Accuton mid, and a Scanspeak woofer! And available at very very good prices - in the $3k-$5k range...

Looks like the Tempesta is available as a DIY kit as well. Nice.

Speaker Kits

 

[square_wave]

..I still regret the day I had to sell my Coltranes (but you can understand that sometimes we need to do this), for 30% of what I bought it. High-end hifi is a tough sell anywhere in the world. However happy with the Django model now. As one reviewer put it 80% of the sound for 20% of the price. The Lars must have been exceptional amps - never got to hear them!

Sorry this is getting OT. Just to say, if you can, Ranjeet try and audition the Django L as well. It is somewhat in the same price range of the other speakers you have mentioned (Mira, Kharma etc.).

You sold the coltranes at 30 % of what you bought it for

How did that happen ?? Very curious ! Most esoteric high end stuff if they are well known like Marten design should sell for 60 percent retail if the condition is good and not too old.

 

[bhagwan]

You sold the coltranes at 30 % of what you bought it for

How did that happen ?? Very curious ! Most esoteric high end stuff if they are well known like Marten design should sell for 60 percent retail if the condition is good and not too old.

Sir,

My TAD is for sale @ 70 % OFF i.e. 30 % to pay.
My Condition is 8/10 [conservatively rated] yet - no takers.

High End is very difficult to buy [@ a low price] & difficult to sell [@ a high price] !! I have been to both these ends & it is very very difficult...trust me.
My Silencable is available @ 80 % merk down i.e. 20 % of Retail to pay & yet no takers....
Yes, this is not a TYPO - just in case others wondered;;;

 

[ranjeetrain]

Honestly Ranjeet, I have found NO difference in driving my bigger speakers with monoblocks, integrated or a pre-power combination. I used to have Wilson Watt/Puppys, Marten Coltranes, big Talons, Acapellas among several other large speakers and have had them with monos as well as stereo amps. I heard the Andras extensively with with a nice pre-power Mark Levinson set up. It certainly has been the amp's design and matching that has matter more than the configuration and power ratings. I strongly suggest, from personal experience, not to get hung up on that aspect. Most well-designed solid state amps nowadays can drive almost everything well enough.

As you say, auditioning them together and enjoying the sound signature is most essential when it comes to your final choice.

One more speaker that I can recommend you try if possible (since I am so pleased with mine) is the smaller brother, newly introduced, of the Marten Design Django XL speakers. I believe this model is the Django L. Here is the link (and I love them in grey!):

Marten - Django L

These look reasonably priced for the components. But again, the house sound is a little cool and neutral so may not be to everyone's taste. However, they are very revealing of the chain and detailed, with a great soundstage. Of course, they have a ceramic driver from Accutone, although the tweeter is not the famous diamond one. i am not sure if they have been extensively reviewed as yet, but you can find several reviews of its bigger brother.

Wow, you owned some serious speakers. Glad to see someone with so much of first hand experience. Nothing compares to first hand experience over a prolonged period with some gear.

The only problem with Marten is that, the moment the word Marten comes before something it makes that stuff expensive. Not dismissing the tech wizardry by Marten as fluff, but (strictly) in my personal opinion, Marten quality is offered by other manufacturers at much lower price points. But there is a good thing about Marten. Martens retain their resale value. I haven't seen Martens in preowned market often, neither are those available at much mark down.

I will try to see if there is a Marten dealer somewhere nearby.

i wonder about one thing...are many high end integrated amplifiers (and power amps) really monoblocks within one enclosure? They all seem to have individual transformers for each channel and the circuitry for each seems to be designed to be quite separate.

This is a puzzling piece. Ideally, the connotation about monoblocks is that, they are more powerful (power-wise) and help with the crosstalk. But in practice I have seen many low powered amps also being sold as mono blocks, even as they could be manageable in one body as true dual-mono design.

I guess by designing an amp in monoblock form a manufacturer wants to emphasize that it's higher quality. Perhaps that's what manufacturer wants the buyer to think. Of course separating the bodies will eliminate the chances of EMI and stereo crosstalk to a good extent. And as such, these should be subject of only the very high end of audio. But considering that many manufacturers build absolutely average amps in monoblock form is suggestive of the fact that manufacturers want to milk the buyer mindset, that more components mean better isolation and better performance.

Just my two paise.

 

[ranjeetrain]

You might want to check out the Odyssey Kismet Reference monitor.

That speaker looks like a cross between PMC and Wilson Benesch. Of course only the looks. Sound could be light years apart

That speakers looks so much like Kharma 3.2.2. Only the size looks different.

 

[Staxxx]

You sold the coltranes at 30 % of what you bought it for

How did that happen ?? Very curious ! Most esoteric high end stuff if they are well known like Marten design should sell for 60 percent retail if the condition is good and not too old.

Unfortunately as things get more and more expensive you are lucky to get 50% and at some point even 30%. They were in perfect condition. This was in the UK right at the start of the recession.
By the way, when many of the brands did not have dealer representation where I lived (unlike the situation now) I was able to buy NEW components directly for 60% of the list price.

 

[Staxxx]

That speakers looks so much like Kharma 3.2.2. Only the size looks different.

I assure you that the Kharma speakers are voiced quite differently from the Martens, although they both use ceramic drivers, which perhaps make them look quite alike. I found the following on a website called Hifier and I think it is quite good in attempting to elucidate the differences:
"
* The Marten sound is more determined by upstream equipment and setup than is the Kharma sound. (i.e. the Marten is capable of having more different kinds of sounds than the Kharma)
* The Kharma sound typically creates a larger soundstage and bigger sound, all else being equal [although this is changing with the new Coltrane 2 and maybe the Momento as well] - this is certainly not the case with the Django from my experience and the reviews which praises the soundstaging ability. I think often a soundstage that is precise may be percieved as being small.(?)
* The Kharma sound is typically more overtly detailed in the midrange and lower treble [though I think this is changing with the newer Kharma black label drivers] than the Marten sound
* The Marten sound has a blacker background and is more revealing of subtleties than the Kharma sound

One way to look at them is that the Kharma is a party speaker, exuberant, exciting, invigorating, and the Marten is a truth speaker, beautiful, mind-mucking, deeply insightful "

I am sure the link can be googled. I think the last statement really does echo my feelings about the two - not that one is "better" than the other....they are both very high-end and very good. It is just what one is looking for.

 

[ranjeetrain]

I assure you that the Kharma speakers are voiced quite differently from the Martens, although they both use ceramic drivers, which perhaps make them look quite alike. I found the following on a website called Hifier and I think it is quite good in attempting to elucidate the differences:
"
* The Marten sound is more determined by upstream equipment and setup than is the Kharma sound. (i.e. the Marten is capable of having more different kinds of sounds than the Kharma)
* The Kharma sound typically creates a larger soundstage and bigger sound, all else being equal [although this is changing with the new Coltrane 2 and maybe the Momento as well] - this is certainly not the case with the Django from my experience and the reviews which praises the soundstaging ability. I think often a soundstage that is precise may be percieved as being small.(?)
* The Kharma sound is typically more overtly detailed in the midrange and lower treble [though I think this is changing with the newer Kharma black label drivers] than the Marten sound
* The Marten sound has a blacker background and is more revealing of subtleties than the Kharma sound

One way to look at them is that the Kharma is a party speaker, exuberant, exciting, invigorating, and the Marten is a truth speaker, beautiful, mind-mucking, deeply insightful "

I am sure the link can be googled. I think the last statement really does echo my feelings about the two - not that one is "better" than the other....they are both very high-end and very good. It is just what one is looking for.

I see where you're comin from. Yes, there indeed is a relevance between the big sound-stage and precise sound-stage. Generally big sound-stage is considered a good thing, but it indeed needn't be so. Big sound-stage much is easier to achieve compared to precise sound-stage. Usually, precise sound-stage can sound smaller, but not always. It's how the recording was mixed.

I fully agree with the high-end being entirely a matter of preference. I have said this somewhere here before and here I say again. Beyond a price point most gear do most things right. What gear one wants depends on how he wants his system to voice ultimately.

Personally, I can't stand big coloration. Neutral is my sound, erring on the forward side. But since I do listen to music all day long when I have the mood, a system that sounds exciting sounds great only first hour or two. After that you want a system that is voiced slightly on the cooler side.

 

[square_wave]

Sir,

My TAD is for sale @ 70 % OFF i.e. 30 % to pay.
My Condition is 8/10 [conservatively rated] yet - no takers.

High End is very difficult to buy [@ a low price] & difficult to sell [@ a high price] !! I have been to both these ends & it is very very difficult...trust me.
My Silencable is available @ 80 % merk down i.e. 20 % of Retail to pay & yet no takers....
Yes, this is not a TYPO - just in case others wondered;;;

I was under the impression there is a market small or large for every price bracket. I can understand problems due to recession though

 

[asliarun]

I also wanted to mention Vapor Audio Cirrus Black. They are very very fast.

You can hear them (and some others such as the Tyler Acoustics floorstander) in the AV Showrooms coverage of Axpona. Check out their speed in the video (should be the fourth one if you scroll down a bit). From what I understand, they use Audiotechnology drivers which are supposed to be some of the best there are.

 

[ranjeetrain]

The marketplace is full of great speakers. And in fact it is possible to get some good sound without breaking the bank. The problem is about finding that magic combination. And it doesn't help being in a third world country, where leave alone the pricing worries, even availability is a problem.

I tried to work with some dealers of high end speakers in India. Their communication left a lot to be desired. As it is, the market is small, not being good in communication makes it even harder to evolve.

The key? Audition!

It's always a low process. Specially if it's not the first system one is putting together. More so if the money involved is not insignificant. I am trying to audition whatever I can. Without auditioning it's very hard to judge from others' write ups. Reviewers are human too. They have their preferences too. No reviewer can be 100% correct in assessing a piece of gear. There are simply too many variables. Auditioning is the only solution if one were to buy something with peace on his mind.

 

[prem]

Hi Ranjeetrain

Auditioning at home is definitely the best solution. But i am personally not very sure of auditioning in a shop. Too many variables there. From source to cables to rack to power to room treatment.

 

[murali]

The marketplace is full of great speakers. And in fact it is possible to get some good sound without breaking the bank. The problem is about finding that magic combination. And it doesn't help being in a third world country, where leave alone the pricing worries, even availability is a problem.

I tried to work with some dealers of high end speakers in India. Their communication left a lot to be desired. As it is, the market is small, not being good in communication makes it even harder to evolve.

The key? Audition!

It's always a low process. Specially if it's not the first system one is putting together. More so if the money involved is not insignificant. I am trying to audition whatever I can. Without auditioning it's very hard to judge from others' write ups. Reviewers are human too. They have their preferences too. No reviewer can be 100% correct in assessing a piece of gear. There are simply too many variables. Auditioning is the only solution if one were to buy something with peace on his mind.

Some days ago, I happened to see Kamal Haasan, a good actor, speaking in the TV with several praising him without any limits and acknowledging what a universal actor he is. I am not questioning his ability as an actor, he had done some great roles, no doubt. But the problem with him and several others I have observed is that beyond a stage, they start believing they are invincible and whatever they turn out into, there are others willing to applaud and accept. Reality starts vanishing and it becomes a world of illusions whereby they start believing that acting means doing ten roles together, or catching up with Hollywood style stunts and themes, so that the reality turns out to watching these guys rather than trying to identify the characters they portray. That is the big difference I have seen between them and some of the great actors of Hollywood. The latter, whether a Marlon Brando or Lawrence Olivier or Anthony Hopkins or Robert de Niro or Al Pacino or several such great actors, do roles which we tend to always remember. Our own folks, by the personality cult or whatever you call it, move to a world of hallucinations. Ultimately, a movie is remembered for its story, its canvas, its subject, the various characters protrayed etc. I believe we still love watching those classical directors' films like David Lean.
This story is relevant to our audio hobby too. We all enjoy listening to music. It does not have to do anything with what system I have, how much money I spend, how beautiful it looks etc. What matters is the sound coming out of the system and how far it can draw you into its world. Auditioning makes sense but does not offer the final solution. Ultimately, you are going to sit in front of your system in your own room and I doubt whether any dealer for that matter is going to lend you several different components to work out permutations and combinations over a period of time.
My experience - a good product sounds good, does not matter with what. The matching has to take into consideration realities, that is all. You don't buy a Ferrari for driving around your city roads, do you? And when you have the Ferrari and has to change its tyres, you don't look for secondhand cheap ones though the car can run on any tyres.
Just some thoughts, that is all.

cheers.
murali

 

[captrajesh]

Reviewers are human too. They have their preferences too. No reviewer can be 100% correct in assessing a piece of gear. There are simply too many variables. Auditioning is the only solution if one were to buy something with peace on his mind.

Can't agree more. Add to that, their prejudices and vested interests. Not understood what the previous poster is trying to say though, especially the context and the analogy; looks like apples to radish comparison.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

"Thanked" especially for this...

apples to radish comparison

Great . I am never going to compare apples to oranges ever again. Radishes have oranges well beaten!

 

[captrajesh]

Great . I am never going to compare apples to oranges ever again. Radishes have oranges well beaten!

Ten characters.

 

[ranjeetrain]

Radishes have oranges well beaten!

Haha, never noticed that before :lol:

Auditioning at home is definitely the best solution. But i am personally not very sure of auditioning in a shop. Too many variables there. From source to cables to rack to power to room treatment.

Well, given a chance everyone would like to have home audition. But even that is not a guarantee to be able to find components that match perfectly (if there is such a thing as perfect matching in first place). Because even at home there are variables. Cables, placement of stuff in the room (even repositioning a wardrobe or a bookshelf is most likely to alter the stereo image and FR curve).

In the absence of home audition facility we must rely on personal audition. When buying something I trust my own eyes/ears more than professional reviews (though I do read reviews and read them well to create a first interest list). I always carry my own front-end with my own collection for each serious audition. That's one set of variables removed from the system. Besides, talking to the dealer and swapping a few components it's not that hard to figure out what each component in a setup is doing.

In my opinion, auditioning a gear even at a dealer is better than to buy it blind. I have purchased stuff online without trying it out first. And I have been both lucky and unlucky with them. IMO, when buying expensive stuff it is better to hear them before committing.

Once the stuff is home, next step starts; dialing it into the room. Any good component is likely to be easy to integrate, into a room, into a system. And that should be the objective of an audition. To figure out, whether the component under audition will integrate in the target system or not.

 

[Pradeep thevalakara]

Hi Friends
Recently I purchased one Accuphase E-470 amp and thinking about upgrading the speakers. My current speakers are B&W 683 s2. 683 is good but I think my Accu deserve better pairing.
I have a plan to buy Tannoy Turnberry GR for my Accuphase. Any suggestions or comments pls share with me.
Regards
Pradeep