Acoustic Treatment for Echoes

[0verkilled]

Thank you in advance for my fellow forum members for choosing to ready this lengthy post.

Lets get right to it -
My problem is that I don’t have a dedicated listening room and I don’t want to hang random acoustic panels and diffusors in my living room (I love my family, I don’t want them to throw me out). Also, I don’t want to draw a lot of attention from guests, don’t like explaining why I have used what. The intent is to keep the entire room treatment subtle and easy on the eye. I have also not used any room measurement software like REW. So need your expert advice.

I will add some photos so that it's easy for us to address the problem.

I am using MusicHall a30.3 + Quad 22Ls, great combination - because I had auditioned the speakers with this amp before I bought them used.
However, my living room has lot of echo and reverberation because of hard surfaces - huge glass window (dont want to add curtains) , granite floor, and there are other glass surfaces too.
Below is how the room is set up.



Coming to the room treatment.
I always wanted to build a skyline diffusor, however, I learnt the difference between diffusor and absorber recently. I reckon absorber is what I need. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Now the plan is to add absorbers on the entire wall (at least 8 feet from the floor) that is opposite to the speakers.
There are two options to do this -

1. Custom absorption panel using Rockwool or Geowool from Aural (50mm) - this requires a lot of work, like building frames, fitting the material, choosing proper cloth material and making provisions to hang them
2. GeoDeco PET FELT collection from Aural (9/12 mm) - Its available in 4'x8', I can just stick it to the wall using double sided tape or Fevicol HeatX. If I can make up my mind, I can even create some patterns etc.

https://www.auralexchange.com/produ...pet-polyester-fiber-felt-acoustic-panel-12mm/

The front wall has some wooden furniture and center table, this can act as diffusor. And since I am covering entire wall, I hope this is enough to absorb echo to a reasonable degree.

As you can see, I am leaning into this GeoDeco thing, It would be really great if anyone can share their experience of using GeoDeco PET FELT material for acoustic treatment.

Wall where the TV is set up


Opposite wall where the furniture is placed - this is the wall where the absorber would be added


And finally, here's the huge glass window, where we are not adding curtains for aesthetic reasons

 

[sud98]

It will be a good idea to first measure your space with REW or similar some software and then decide what to solve.

Some of the items you will have to take a call, having a large glass window and not having curtains will be a show stopper as glass will rattle, so you will need to decide whats more important. Esp. the speakers being so close to the edge and having glass next to it will not work.

 

[0verkilled]

It will be a good idea to first measure your space with REW or similar some software and then decide what to solve.

Some of the items you will have to take a call, having a large glass window and not having curtains will be a show stopper as glass will rattle, so you will need to decide whats more important. Esp. the speakers being so close to the edge and having glass next to it will not work.

Thank you. I have had the condition of rattling windows in my previous house with smaller windows (using Music Hall a25.2 and Mordaunt short floor standers), however, have not experienced anything this room. May be I dont play music at those levels anymore.
However, I do have echo, which is evident even when someone speaks loudly, the room is pretty empty.

I wanted to try the REW measurement, I watched some tutorials, however, I dont have the USB interface which they show in the videos. I can invest in one if needed. Is there anyway I can try without that interface? I do have a Condenser Mic, stand etc.

 

[keith_correa]

I see that you already have curtain rods up for the French windows where you don't want to put up curtains. Can you do an experiment? To those rods, clip bedsheets, spare curtains or whatever so that those windows are covered temporarily. Now play some music - how much of the echo remains?

 

[0verkilled]

I see that you already have curtain rods up for the French windows where you don't want to put up curtains. Can you do an experiment? To those rods, clip bedsheets, spare curtains or whatever so that those windows are covered temporarily. Now play some music - how much of the echo remains?

Sure thing, will try this out first thing tomorrow morning.

 

[aeroash]

my living room has lot of echo and reverberation because of hard surfaces - huge glass window (dont want to add curtains) , granite floor, and there are other glass surfaces too.

Flutter echoes are the easiest to treat. To address the issue, the immediate initial reflection sites (the glass sliders on the right, and the floor) need to be treated one way or the other.
Spread a large bedsheet on the floor near the speakers and draw some makeshift curtains on the 2 glass sliders closest to the speakers, for the time being, and observe how this affects the sound.

 

[MaSh]

Wow that's a lovely room you got there. What it's missing is a carpet. Get a thick and the largest carpet that you can fit. That should solve half the echo issues.

MaSh

 

[Mahi]

Thank you in advance for my fellow forum members for choosing to ready this lengthy post.

Lets get right to it -
My problem is that I don’t have a dedicated listening room and I don’t want to hang random acoustic panels and diffusors in my living room (I love my family, I don’t want them to throw me out). Also, I don’t want to draw a lot of attention from guests, don’t like explaining why I have used what. The intent is to keep the entire room treatment subtle and easy on the eye. I have also not used any room measurement software like REW. So need your expert advice.

I will add some photos so that it's easy for us to address the problem.

I am using MusicHall a30.3 + Quad 22Ls, great combination - because I had auditioned the speakers with this amp before I bought them used.
However, my living room has lot of echo and reverberation because of hard surfaces - huge glass window (dont want to add curtains) , granite floor, and there are other glass surfaces too.
Below is how the room is set up.

View attachment 69286

Coming to the room treatment.
I always wanted to build a skyline diffusor, however, I learnt the difference between diffusor and absorber recently. I reckon absorber is what I need. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Now the plan is to add absorbers on the entire wall (at least 8 feet from the floor) that is opposite to the speakers.
There are two options to do this -

1. Custom absorption panel using Rockwool or Geowool from Aural (50mm) - this requires a lot of work, like building frames, fitting the material, choosing proper cloth material and making provisions to hang them
2. GeoDeco PET FELT collection from Aural (9/12 mm) - Its available in 4'x8', I can just stick it to the wall using double sided tape or Fevicol HeatX. If I can make up my mind, I can even create some patterns etc.

https://www.auralexchange.com/produ...pet-polyester-fiber-felt-acoustic-panel-12mm/

The front wall has some wooden furniture and center table, this can act as diffusor. And since I am covering entire wall, I hope this is enough to absorb echo to a reasonable degree.

As you can see, I am leaning into this GeoDeco thing, It would be really great if anyone can share their experience of using GeoDeco PET FELT material for acoustic treatment.

Wall where the TV is set up
View attachment 69287

Opposite wall where the furniture is placed - this is the wall where the absorber would be added
View attachment 69288

And finally, here's the huge glass window, where we are not adding curtains for aesthetic reasons
View attachment 69289

What is exact location in Bangalore ?? Sir if it's possible to share contact no?? Sir

 

[Anurag]

to start with, without investing on anything, first do some experimentation on a free weekend. Bring the listening sofa away from the wall. if the center table's glass top is removable then do so or cover it with some bedsheet. keep the 1st or the 2nd glass window from the speaker side open. then start your listening session and along with experiment a bit with the speaker positioning, bringing it a bit into the room away from the back or side wall.
Now hear the difference, if you enjoy more then the minimum change that you need to do in the room is, bringing in a carpet on the floor and hanging in a curtain on the 1st or the 2nd window panel at least, or else put a sofa with more cushions on the glass window side. These are the minimum and obviously if you can measure then it will provide a better perspective.

 

[0verkilled]

Thanks for all the advise and tips.

I did try coupe of things over the weekend. And there was a lot of change, considerable improvement in the music.
I did not find a lot of difference with the the bedsheets I used. I will try again with thicker ones woolen blankets, quilts etc to see the real effect. I can certainly tell it will have impact.
I also tried with placing cushions from another sofa on the front wall, orange ones that are placed above the sofa in the image. This had a lot of impact on bass, all the boominess was gone and I could actually hear the quality bass that MusicHall is known for.



I also reached out to Mr.Aushuthosh and learnt that the GeoDeco collection is finishing material and does not act as an absorber on its own, it needs underlying absorber made out of Rockwool or Glasswool.

One thing is clear based on what all you of are recommending and what I had experienced, this is going to be a slow and gradual process of trying out different things until you are satisfied, or may be this process might continue forever, and you have try before doing anything permanent. For example, someone who like a lot of bass may be good with just putting curtains and not do anything else.

 

[0verkilled]

Wow that's a lovely room you got there. What it's missing is a carpet. Get a thick and the largest carpet that you can fit. That should solve half the echo issues.

MaSh

Thanks, carpet situation was discussed at home couple of times, because of 2 notorious kids I have, I am really hesitant. If they spill food once, it will be difficult to clean, will surely add a carpet in the future.

 

[0verkilled]

What is exact location in Bangalore ?? Sir if it's possible to share contact no?? Sir

I am thinking you want to know my contact number, have shared with you

 

[0verkilled]

to start with, without investing on anything, first do some experimentation on a free weekend. Bring the listening sofa away from the wall. if the center table's glass top is removable then do so or cover it with some bedsheet. keep the 1st or the 2nd glass window from the speaker side open. then start your listening session and along with experiment a bit with the speaker positioning, bringing it a bit into the room away from the back or side wall.
Now hear the difference, if you enjoy more then the minimum change that you need to do in the room is, bringing in a carpet on the floor and hanging in a curtain on the 1st or the 2nd window panel at least, or else put a sofa with more cushions on the glass window side. These are the minimum and obviously if you can measure then it will provide a better perspective.

Will surely try out your suggestions, at least I am now at ease knowing that its going to be a gradual process. Thanks for the ideas.

 

[sud98]

I am thinking you want to know my contact number, have shared with you

I think he got banned, so be careful.

Try another experiment. Bring out the speakers both from the back wall as well as side wall and try to find a chair or a bean bag and listen to music in near field. If you like what you hear, then you can slowly keep doing modifications. You should get better experience by moving them away from any reflecting surfaces or corners. Also, the material used needs to be of sufficient thickness and the right type to make a difference. Think mattress instead of a cloth as an example.

 

[MaSh]

Thanks, carpet situation was discussed at home couple of times, because of 2 notorious kids I have, I am really hesitant. If they spill food once, it will be difficult to clean, will surely add a carpet in the future.

he he dont worry about that. They will learn with time. Unless you get pure silk or such exotic material carpet, all else can be easily cleaned/dry cleaned. You can try with one of those thick jute carpets that are sold on the Road side (HAL Road and others). This should bring an instant change by stopping all floor reflections.

As an experiment, put down your bed mattresses on the floor and hang thick bed sheets on the side curtain rods. That will give you a direction to head into.

MaSh

 

[0verkilled]

I did more and more experiments to a point I could not tell the difference
Covered the floor with carpet, the glass table with a quilt, cushions on sofas, curtains - it took a lot of effort to just see the A/B comparison. Yes it does make a difference, only thing is I could not tell which made the most difference, however, adding all kind of absorbing material vs none has a lot of difference.
How can I tell without measurement? recorded random songs with and without material on an iPhone, several recordings that is, paused songs in between and changed stuff and recorded again. I left it there and listened to those recordings not knowing what was recorded when after a couple of days (i.e, just now) and I can identify the recoding muffled and chaotic, obviously without absorbers, to cleaner sound with absorbers.

Good exercise, however, the only challenge is, I dont know where the absorbers are most effective.
Still exploring and see where I land. Thought of sharing some updates based on what I tried, all because of your valuable suggestions.

 

[headcase]

Hey...a nice room u hv there..

I've recently ventured into some acoustic treatment for my drawing room as well which i set up as a listening room.

In short, to go the treatment route there are many ways to do it from DIY to ready made beautiful panels. But that will be a bit costly and require a lot of panels given the space. But they do have colour options from wooden to white and grey etc.

The best way is to get a big carpet first and throw it right in front of ur speakers to absorb immediate dispersion. As a carpet would cover more area compared to panels etc.

For the big windows u can install rollable ultrathin wooden/bamboo blinds u can pull done while listening while maintaining transparency for decor and light when suitable weather.

Last would be to add few acoustic panels in one by one like a pair of two on one wall, then two on another so on until u feel it's enough.

I got some wooden panels for myself from a Mumbai based co.called aural exchange. Mr. Ashutosh is the owner. He will also suggest you somethings if you ask n prolly ask u to share ur room pics for analysis. If u don't like wooden n think might spoil the looks u can also consider white panels.

In my case i asked him to customize the John Darko design as it was not available and GIK acoustic is expensive. To my surprise he was able to do so at default price as his existing panels. So basically i gave him an idea about the design how it can be in demand as many beginner audiophiles follow him. So he has the same design added to his collection now at the fraction of cost to the GIK ones. Super expensive. These are much much cheaper.

Pic below is a sample of my panels. 2 each on a single wall and rest a medium sized carpet in middle. As not a very large room. Later i put two small carpets in front of speakers too.

Check out the website

Buy Wooden Acoustic Panels in India DIY Lowest prices | Aural Exchange - Acoustic Panels & Sound Proofing | Noise & Vibration Control | Acoustic Consultant | India

Buy Wooden Acoustic Panels in India DIY at the lowest and cheapest prices. We offer same day shipping with 24 hour delivery. Buy brands like Auralex, Nankarrow, Aurica, Primacoustic, Ultracoustic, Anutone, Armstrong. Vicoustic | Aural Exchange - Acoustic Panels & Sound Proofing | Noise &...

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Explained Perfectly:

I do believe if u put ur set up on the opposite wall where the sofa currently is and sofa where u hv set up currently. It will be very good for the set up as ur speakers will get equal/more space on either sides from the wall and keep them further apart from the cabinet to make space and then toe-in 10-30° firing at ur listening position. U can stand behind the speakers while u do that. Keep the speakers minimum 30cm away from wall or 1.5 - 2 feet. It will create a beautiful imaging effect.
Cabinet might be cancelling the inbetween field also. Mine is rounded on the edges. Hope it helps Try out all the best.

 

[prateekatasniya]

Thank you in advance for my fellow forum members for choosing to ready this lengthy post.

Lets get right to it -
My problem is that I don’t have a dedicated listening room and I don’t want to hang random acoustic panels and diffusors in my living room (I love my family, I don’t want them to throw me out). Also, I don’t want to draw a lot of attention from guests, don’t like explaining why I have used what. The intent is to keep the entire room treatment subtle and easy on the eye. I have also not used any room measurement software like REW. So need your expert advice.

I will add some photos so that it's easy for us to address the problem.

I am using MusicHall a30.3 + Quad 22Ls, great combination - because I had auditioned the speakers with this amp before I bought them used.
However, my living room has lot of echo and reverberation because of hard surfaces - huge glass window (dont want to add curtains) , granite floor, and there are other glass surfaces too.
Below is how the room is set up.

View attachment 69286

Coming to the room treatment.
I always wanted to build a skyline diffusor, however, I learnt the difference between diffusor and absorber recently. I reckon absorber is what I need. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Now the plan is to add absorbers on the entire wall (at least 8 feet from the floor) that is opposite to the speakers.
There are two options to do this -

1. Custom absorption panel using Rockwool or Geowool from Aural (50mm) - this requires a lot of work, like building frames, fitting the material, choosing proper cloth material and making provisions to hang them
2. GeoDeco PET FELT collection from Aural (9/12 mm) - Its available in 4'x8', I can just stick it to the wall using double sided tape or Fevicol HeatX. If I can make up my mind, I can even create some patterns etc.

https://www.auralexchange.com/produ...pet-polyester-fiber-felt-acoustic-panel-12mm/

The front wall has some wooden furniture and center table, this can act as diffusor. And since I am covering entire wall, I hope this is enough to absorb echo to a reasonable degree.

As you can see, I am leaning into this GeoDeco thing, It would be really great if anyone can share their experience of using GeoDeco PET FELT material for acoustic treatment.

Wall where the TV is set up
View attachment 69287

Opposite wall where the furniture is placed - this is the wall where the absorber would be added
View attachment 69288

And finally, here's the huge glass window, where we are not adding curtains for aesthetic reasons
View attachment 69289

The right speaker placed next the the glass is the biggest concern.

Adding a thick rug would be beneficial.

Focus on fixing the vertical reflections.

 

[RaaR]

What kind of Carpet is preferred by our forum members for acoustics requirements rather than as a decorative addition

 

[DB1989]

What kind of Carpet is preferred by our forum members for acoustics requirements rather than as a decorative addition

Choose one of the permanently affixed ones used for carpeting whole rooms and add a thin foam layer beneath it - I dunno what it's called exactly but the carpeting guys will. It helps absord and in creating the floor vibrations notwithstanding lack of a wooden floor. Great tactile feel which is much better than conventional carpets available from Amazon.