Advice regarding a STEREO only System

[ssf]

Received the amp and set it up with Pioneer FS52s. Currently using the SA Phoenix BT Adapter as could not order the WXC50 for the lockdown shipping issues at the dealer.

This is my first experience with an Integrated amp, hence I have nothing to compare, except with my previous AVR.

Out of the box - really impressed. Immediately can perceive the effortless openness of the vocals, the subtle smoothness of high frequency as I have read numerous times about the marantz. What dear FMs were saying was true. With proper amp, speakers do sing. I had no idea my FS52s had bass, because with AVR, set as Small and 80hz Crossover, bass in them was nonexistent. But with pm6007, I can somewhat manage these towers with whatever bass they are outputting now, without using a subwoofer. I guess, amps need burn-in time and I have heard they need 50 hrs to ideally open up. I will update once I achieve 50hrs burn in time.

Doubts - I have read pm5000/6000 series are suitable for bookshelf speakers, especially 2 way speakers, and with complex crossovers of 3way tower speakers, they won't perform optimally. Since, I am currently using them with Pioneer FS52s, which are power hungry as people say, the sound does not seem right. Loudness is not an issue as the volume on amp is around 9/10 position, it is still loud enough for my room. What I feel is, the silent part in tracks are not properly audible, when the normal part begins it is suddenly loud, and the loud part is like really loud. What I meant is the transition between low-high-mid frequency is not smooth or subtle. If the song is - let's say 'Casandra Wilson's Don't Explain' when it begins or being built up, I can't hear much but once the rhythm kicks in "bang". I observe this in mid way of tracks as well. I don't know it is a problem with the source, or burn-in, or my multi-driver-ed low sensitive power hungry towers. I tried to read and some says these amps may be not handling the multi crossovers of tower speakers properly, which is causing the uncontrollable output. I can assure such problem was not there when I was driving these towers with the AVR.

I am unable to integrate my wharfedale d10 sub with the amp. it has low-pass filter from 40-150. Pioneer has frequency range of 40 Hz-20 kHz
What should be the lowpass setting on the subwoofer?

Are two-way speakers really easy to drive ?

A receiver as you have mentioned, sends all frequencies below 80Hz (configurable) to the sub, thus lifting the load off the receiver and also does not stress the speakers as they are now not playing the lower frequencies. This will make the speaker sound cleaner and clearer.

With a stereo amp like Marantz, you will be giving the speakers full range which might make some speakers sound muddled. You could try pulling them away from the wall to see if the sound clears up or do some room treatments. On the sub, you could set the crossover in the range of 60 to 80 Hz. I would prefer 60.

 

[Yogesh]

A new group buy for Indiq has started on HFV. Why don't you take advantage of it?

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Received the amp and set it up with Pioneer FS52s. Currently using the SA Phoenix BT Adapter as could not order the WXC50 for the lockdown shipping issues at the dealer.

This is my first experience with an Integrated amp, hence I have nothing to compare, except with my previous AVR.

Out of the box - really impressed. Immediately can perceive the effortless openness of the vocals, the subtle smoothness of high frequency as I have read numerous times about the marantz. What dear FMs were saying was true. With proper amp, speakers do sing. I had no idea my FS52s had bass, because with AVR, set as Small and 80hz Crossover, bass in them was nonexistent. But with pm6007, I can somewhat manage these towers with whatever bass they are outputting now, without using a subwoofer. I guess, amps need burn-in time and I have heard they need 50 hrs to ideally open up. I will update once I achieve 50hrs burn in time.

Doubts - I have read pm5000/6000 series are suitable for bookshelf speakers, especially 2 way speakers, and with complex crossovers of 3way tower speakers, they won't perform optimally. Since, I am currently using them with Pioneer FS52s, which are power hungry as people say, the sound does not seem right. Loudness is not an issue as the volume on amp is around 9/10 position, it is still loud enough for my room. What I feel is, the silent part in tracks are not properly audible, when the normal part begins it is suddenly loud, and the loud part is like really loud. What I meant is the transition between low-high-mid frequency is not smooth or subtle. If the song is - let's say 'Casandra Wilson's Don't Explain' when it begins or being built up, I can't hear much but once the rhythm kicks in "bang". I observe this in mid way of tracks as well. I don't know it is a problem with the source, or burn-in, or my multi-driver-ed low sensitive power hungry towers. I tried to read and some says these amps may be not handling the multi crossovers of tower speakers properly, which is causing the uncontrollable output. I can assure such problem was not there when I was driving these towers with the AVR.

I am unable to integrate my wharfedale d10 sub with the amp. it has low-pass filter from 40-150. Pioneer has frequency range of 40 Hz-20 kHz
What should be the lowpass setting on the subwoofer?

Are two-way speakers really easy to drive ?

Hi sorry late to this thread, 2 way speakers or book shelve speakers inherently are not more effecient. A lot depends on the cabinet volume and crossover design, not to mention the rigidity of the drivers themselves.

Iam big...sorry massive fan of the Qacoustics sound. And run a pair of concept 40's with a very old marantz SR 6011 AVR, and a Qacoustics sub. Sounds bloody good to me ears

This system has been running intact and untouched since 2012 in my living room. And my wife wouldn't let me replace it with any thing else, though I have 2 more pairs of bigger and many times more expensive floor standers for my dedicated 2 channel rig. Marantz and Qacoustics pair beautifully well, it is a smooth and refined sound , just what you might be looking for from your musical taste.

So I would suggest going for a pair of Qacoustics concept 20's to pair with the marantz amp. And please bear in mind that integrating a sub in a 2 channel setup is not easy, unless we have some kind of eq or DSP device in the chain. All the best

 

[sandeeprao]

Check Indiq Audio Universal Mishra(Also called custom LCR). A lot of FM have it.

If you can stretch your budget to 92, Indiq Platinum is current favorite of FMs.

Thanks Yogesh for the direction ..... @Prodigy for all the knowledge sharing ordered Marantz NR1200 today and will be pairing it with suitable IndiqAudio speakers

 

[fLUX]

Hi sorry late to this thread, 2 way speakers or book shelve speakers inherently are not more effecient. A lot depends on the cabinet volume and crossover design, not to mention the rigidity of the drivers themselves.

Iam big...sorry massive fan of the Qacoustics sound. And run a pair of concept 40's with a very old marantz SR 6011 AVR, and a Qacoustics sub. Sounds bloody good to me ears

This system has been running intact and untouched since 2012 in my living room. And my wife wouldn't let me replace it with any thing else, though I have 2 more pairs of bigger and many times more expensive floor standers for my dedicated 2 channel rig. Marantz and Qacoustics pair beautifully well, it is a smooth and refined sound , just what you might be looking for from your musical taste.

So I would suggest going for a pair of Qacoustics concept 20's to pair with the marantz amp. And please bear in mind that integrating a sub in a 2 channel setup is not easy, unless we have some kind of eq or DSP device in the chain. All the best

Totally agree, Concept 20 to me were beautiful looking and equally good sounding in such a small form factor. I had paired them with Marantz PM6006 and were my first hi-fi combination.

 

[sandeeprao]

Thank you for all the response guys.

Considering I pick Marantz PM6007 - I am not planning to add sub in the future and want the sound to be bigger without sounding it boomy, How would you guys rate below mentioned speakers to go with it

1- Wharfedale 11.2 - https://hifimart.com/product/wharfedale-diamond-11-2-bookshelf-speakers/
2- Wharfedale 12.2 - https://hifimart.com/product/wharfedale-diamond-12-1-bookshelf-speakers/
3- Wharfedale 12.3 - https://hifimart.com/product/wharfedale-diamond-12-2-bookshelf-speakers/
4- Wharfedale Evo 4.2 -
5- Q acoustics 3030i - https://hifimart.com/product/q-acoustics-3030i-bookshelf-speaker/
6- Q acoustics 3050i - https://hifimart.com/product/q-acoustics-3050i-floorstanding-speakers-html/
7- Any other you would like to mention (under 70k)

Appreciate your help in advance.

Thanks

All the initial homework has gone in vain

 

[fLUX]

All the initial homework has gone in vain

I would say it has gone in vain for good

 

[sandeeprao]

https://www.indiqaudio.com/diamond-achal-3-way-towers - Diamond Achal 's are finally out

 

[gurujee]

Hi sorry late to this thread, 2 way speakers or book shelve speakers inherently are not more effecient. A lot depends on the cabinet volume and crossover design, not to mention the rigidity of the drivers themselves.

Iam big...sorry massive fan of the Qacoustics sound. And run a pair of concept 40's with a very old marantz SR 6011 AVR, and a Qacoustics sub. Sounds bloody good to me ears

This system has been running intact and untouched since 2012 in my living room. And my wife wouldn't let me replace it with any thing else, though I have 2 more pairs of bigger and many times more expensive floor standers for my dedicated 2 channel rig. Marantz and Qacoustics pair beautifully well, it is a smooth and refined sound , just what you might be looking for from your musical taste.

So I would suggest going for a pair of Qacoustics concept 20's to pair with the marantz amp. And please bear in mind that integrating a sub in a 2 channel setup is not easy, unless we have some kind of eq or DSP device in the chain. All the best

Thank you so much @ssf @Yelamanchili manohar for replying. Really loved your thoughts and suggestions. I am kind of narrowed down to Q Acoustic as some FMs had also suggested them earlier.

I am just confused between 3030i and Concept 20s because of bass response. And has doubt about the back port. Considering their deep depth I can only place them max 6/7 inch from the back wall. Will being closed to wall make too much of problems? I heard concept 20s performs best with their dedicated stands which costs as much as the speakers. Do I must get them if I get the 20s. In a 12*10 room the bass of 20s will be adequate?

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Thank you so much @ssf @Yelamanchili manohar for replying. Really loved your thoughts and suggestions. I am kind of narrowed down to Q Acoustic as some FMs had also suggested them earlier.

I am just confused between 3030i and Concept 20s because of bass response. And has doubt about the back port. Considering their deep depth I can only place them max 6/7 inch from the back wall. Will being closed to wall make too much of problems? I heard concept 20s performs best with their dedicated stands which costs as much as the speakers. Do I must get them if I get the 20s. In a 12*10 room the bass of 20s will be adequate?

Hi gurujee

To be honest I haven't tried the concept 20's myself. I've only ever tried the concept 40's. And concept 40's, from my experience need a minimum of 45 cms from the back wall to stop them from booming. The concept 20's, might be more benevolent to a close wall placement as they are smaller in size and with a lesser bass reach.

And coming to stands, the stands are supposed to be made of the same gelcore construction, to again absorb the vibrations being created by the concept 20 speakers. But they are not absolutely a must. You should look at this hobby as a journey, and not as a destination with the purchase of the concept 20 speakers now. You can buy the speakers now, and even place them on a cup board or something. And again when funds permit, you can buy a stand or place some isolation under them. Please remember that rome was not built in a day. It took me 4 years to build my HT system. And almost 8 years for my present 2 channel system . So one brick at a time, and the next brick, when funds permit..

That is my mantra anyways

 

[Prodigy]

Thank you so much @ssf @Yelamanchili manohar for replying. Really loved your thoughts and suggestions. I am kind of narrowed down to Q Acoustic as some FMs had also suggested them earlier.

I am just confused between 3030i and Concept 20s because of bass response. And has doubt about the back port. Considering their deep depth I can only place them max 6/7 inch from the back wall. Will being closed to wall make too much of problems? I heard concept 20s performs best with their dedicated stands which costs as much as the speakers. Do I must get them if I get the 20s. In a 12*10 room the bass of 20s will be adequate?

Go for the concept 20 any day over the 3030i. Even in a smallest of the room C20 will not produce any bass. They are to be paired with a sub for music. They are very musical compared to the 3030i. Go for the 3030 only if you are a bass head and do not care much about the details.
It you like the details in your music don’t look back. It has to be C20.

Regards,
Som

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Go for the concept 20 any day over the 3030i. Even in a smallest of the room C20 will not produce any bass. They are to be paired with a sub for music. They are very musical compared to the 3030i. Go for the 3030 only if you are a bass head and do not care much about the details.
It you like the details in your music don’t look back. It has to be C20.

Regards,
Som

I must admit that I haven't ever heard the concept 20's. But by the reviews alone, I would surmise that they have enough bass for a book shelve speaker. None of the others go below 60hz properly anyways

But if you have heard one...then of course your opinion ranks above mine any day

 

[fLUX]

I must admit that I haven't ever heard the concept 20's. But by the reviews alone, I would surmise that they have enough bass for a book shelve speaker. None of the others go below 60hz properly anyways

But if you have heard one...then of course your opinion ranks above mine any day

Whatever bass they produce is tight & precise , but the quantity of bass is lower than 3020i and the 3030i are supposed to have even better bass than 3030i so I would say a sub would be a very good addition.

 

[gurujee]

@

Hi gurujee

To be honest I haven't tried the concept 20's myself. I've only ever tried the concept 40's. And concept 40's, from my experience need a minimum of 45 cms from the back wall to stop them from booming. The concept 20's, might be more benevolent to a close wall placement as they are smaller in size and with a lesser bass reach.

And coming to stands, the stands are supposed to be made of the same gelcore construction, to again absorb the vibrations being created by the concept 20 speakers. But they are not absolutely a must. You should look at this hobby as a journey, and not as a destination with the purchase of the concept 20 speakers now. You can buy the speakers now, and even place them on a cup board or something. And again when funds permit, you can buy a stand or place some isolation under them. Please remember that rome was not built in a day. It took me 4 years to build my HT system. And almost 8 years for my present 2 channel system . So one brick at a time, and the next brick, when funds permit..

That is my mantra anyways

This put an instant smile on my face. ) I needed this. Thank you. Thank you @Prodigy @fLUX Will get the concept20s.

 

[Prodigy]

I must admit that I haven't ever heard the concept 20's. But by the reviews alone, I would surmise that they have enough bass for a book shelve speaker. None of the others go below 60hz properly anyways

But if you have heard one...then of course your opinion ranks above mine any day

I have had a very good audition of the C20 and the 3030i in Modern Audio Bangalore. Both were paired with Marantz NR1200. Spent a good amount of time listening to my usual tracks on both and I liked the C20 better than the latter. They were more detailed and quite pleasurable to listen to. The highs on the C20 were much better as well as the Mids. When you throw a bass heavy track at it (Quick Musical Doodles by Two Feet) I felt it struggled to bring out that rumbling bass. When it was paired with the QA sub, it sounded great and did not notice that fatigue in them.
The 3030i on the other hand handled the same track better but then there is a compromise. While the low end was good the high’s and mids too a back seat and made it sound a bit hollow. I would always choose the Elac B6.2 over the 3030i any day coz it was much more balanced and sounded more natural.
These are just my observations based on my listening taste.
If I were to only choose between the 3 and have a good budget for a stereo set up my 1st option would be C20 Paired with a decent Sealed Sub. If I don’t have the budget for a sealed sub, I would choose the Elac B6.2.

Regards,
Som

 

[Prodigy]

@

This put an instant smile on my face. ) I needed this. Thank you. Thank you @Prodigy @fLUX Will get the concept20s.

@gurujee,
C20 is a very good speaker. Sounds good and looks good too but be prepared to add a good sub with it to have a pleasurable listening experience.
All the best!

Som

 

[gurujee]

@gurujee,
C20 is a very good speaker. Sounds good and looks good too but be prepared to add a good sub with it to have a pleasurable listening experience.
All the best!

Som

Thank you. In the current setup with marantz, fs52 towers, and wharf d10 sub, without bass management in amp, it is not yielding any good integration. I hope with bookshelf, integration won't be an issue. Do you think Wharfedale D10 can run with the concept 20s. May I know with which Q acoustics sub you had the audition of c20s?

 

[Prodigy]

Thank you. In the current setup with marantz, fs52 towers, and wharf d10 sub, without bass management in amp, it is not yielding any good integration. I hope with bookshelf, integration won't be an issue. Do you think Wharfedale D10 can run with the concept 20s. May I know with which Q acoustics sub you had the audition of c20s?

It’s the most revved QB12 @gurujee . They do what they are designed for very well. Ofcourse you cannot expect a T9I like performance out of it but what it does is very good when set up properly.

 

[gurujee]

Finally went for QA 3030i. Got a very good deal at TataCliq. Wanted to go for Concept 20 but the price went up recently and they may have required a sub and the dedicated stand which I think WiLL be a future upgrade. For now will see how this 3030i is doing. Thank you all the FMs for your kind guidance and time.

 

[gurujee]

Congrats , please do post your views and photos
Please do also compare with FS52 and post impression here. Thanks.

Thank you. Will surely do.