All-purpose PC

[Asit]

Sorry guys for temporarily vanishing from the forum. Just watching the cricket game tonight and a disappointing loss for India.

Hi asliarun,
Thanks for your concern and suggesting a laptop for home. However, there are laptops at home, and we would like one desktop at home, for reasons already explained by other members. We like the freedom of upgrading with a desktop and actually have put in new stuff once in a while in all the 3 desktops we have had at home. At the least, we run out of HDD very soon. One more reason for it (not sure if others have mentioned it already) is to have one computer with a large screen. As is obvious, it is really convenient particularly for certain applications to have a larger screen.

Hi all,
If the 780 and 785 boards do not have enough graphics capability for a game like the FIFA 2010, I think we ought to consider a separate graphics card. (Our son was planning for a long time to get this game from his savings and he is somebody with almost no demands). Please suggest a graphics card.

I have a few absolutely dumb questions here (in the scenario where we are getting a graphics card):
1) In this case, does it make sense to go for 785 still? I'd still be interested in a 785 board if it has other advantages over a 780.
2) Should we go for a mobo with AM3 slot and DDR3 capability, for future flexibility?
3) Does the graphics card memory has to be consistent with the memory type of the mobo (that is GDDR2 with DDR2 etc)? This question may not make any sense, but if it does, please answer.

In addition, we would also have a good sound card, but later. Initially we would go without one. Are there any mobo with a better on-board sound capabilities. Cranky, you mentioned some mobos with audiophile pretensions. Which ones? Is it really a pretension, or is there some substance behind it?

Regards.

 

[Gurudristi]

1).If you are into gaming.. go for a seperate graphics card. You can enhance the graphics by using another similar card and use X-fire.:licklips:
2). AM3 and DDR3 RAMs are the future and one must look for them. Atleast DDR3. The difference between AM2+ and AM3 sockets is not much.
3). Graphics card mem has nothing to do with RAM mem. But yes, if your mother board supports DDR3, then you cannot use DDR or DDR2 RAM or vice versa.

A good motherboard for HTPC would be Gigabyte GAMA-785GMT-UD2h, it uses 785Chipset, it is micro ATX form, has AM3 socket, and DDR3 RAM. The capacitors used on it are solid and ultra durable. I am plannig to buy this board along with AMD X2-Phenom II- Black edition processor.

 

[thevortex]

For graphics card recommendations there are very good threads at Techenclave and the experts there can explain the whys and wherefores much better.

One small thing - this is a reminder of my earlier question. Is there any particular reason you are not thinking about using the PC as a source for your stereo system? Because if you are thinking about that at any point of time, then installing a graphics card as well as a sound card is less than ideal.

Of course if this is going to be your son's machine, no problems caused. It might also make sense to invest in an aftermarket fan for the cabinet to lessen the heat generated by the sound card as well as the graphics card. The Antec has a lovely provision for a huge fan.

Gurudrishti has answered your other questions. AM3 and DDR3 are the way to go.

 

[asliarun]

Thanks for the clarification, Asit. My suggestions were a little off-base.

My $0.02 on parts:

1. Please see Theitdepot - India's First IT Online Shopping Store
I've shipped 3 items from them so far, and have been impressed by their delivery and service, even though I'm not located in Chennai. However, this may not make sense if you're getting all your components sourced and assembled from one place (which is less hassle-free, and you can drive down the prices more easily).

2. Please consider AMD Athlon X3. These are extremely reasonably priced parts and will give you 3 cores, which should be more than sufficient, and will give you sufficient performance even if one core is maxed out in say, mp3 encoding. Anandtech also has some very nice things to say about them: AnandTech: AMD's Athlon II X3 435 & New Energy Efficient CPUs: Killing Intel Below $90

An X3 is in fact an X4 with one core disabled. With some X3 chips, you can actually enable the fourth core with a minor BIOS tweak, if you're lucky with the chip!

3. I would recommend the ATI graphics cards over nVidia. nVidia has suffered some bad problems of late because of hardware failures and poor driver support. ATI on the other hand has released some very good cards of late (4xxx series). The sweet spot for average gaming performance in India seems to be around 4k. You can use the following benchmark chart to help you decide: Charts, benchmarks Gaming Graphics Cards Charts Q3/2009 (Mainstream Quality), Far Cry 2
Anything above 25fps in FarCry2 should be decent for light gaming. You should get a DX10 card if possible, with at least 512MB RAM (type of RAM isn't that important, and in any case fancy RAM like GDDR5 will cost too much).

Please note that investing in more money in a graphics card will give you a linear increase in performance. No other component, including your CPU, will give you this linear performance increase. (HDD until a certain price point, perhaps)

4. DDR3 is still overpriced compared to DDR2 RAM, and gives only a very small (2-3%) performance advantage. Hence, in terms of price-benefit, it loses out to DDR2. Please also refer to: AnandTech: DDR3 vs. DDR2

However, DDR3 IS the future, so if the price difference is marginal, it will be a good investment. I also recommend two sticks of 2GB modules, which is very reasonably priced, and will be fully used by a 64bit OS like Win7 64bit version.

Again, savings in RAM or motherboard that are invested in a better graphics card will give you a MUCH better performance increase. A good graphics card is not just for gaming, it will also boost overall system performance as everything in a modern day OS like Win7 is graphics based. It is even more crucial if you have a large monitor, as the graphics card should be able to properly drive the higher resolution.

5. For monitors, please see options from Dell. Although Dell is not known for the robustness of its PCs, it is the industry leader when it comes to flat screen monitors, in terms of quality and value for money. Simply put, Dell monitors rock. In any case, support for high resolution is important, especially if your monitor is more than 19". Your monitor should support 1920 x 1080, if not 1680 X 1050, at 60Hz. If you can also get a reasonably priced non-TN panel, please do so! HDMI and DVI connectivity should also be present.

 

[Asit]

Thanks guridristi, vortex and cranky for your replies.

I guess the choice is between Asus M3A88EM and the Gigabyte GA MA 785GMT boards.

What do you guys think about Asus and Gigabyte as brands, in terms of reliability of products, after sales service and warranty.

Just got a power shutdown notice. Logging off now. Vortex, I'll answer your question on using this with my stereo set-up later.

Regards.

 

[thevortex]

ASUS and Gigabyte both are very good companies and I have had nothing but good luck with either one of them. With these kinds of equipment, you really cannot guess as to which piece may go wrong.

I have used Gigabyte's boards for more than 6 such PCs in the last year or two and every one of them is going strong. So, I guess that is a natural recommendation.

I am not sure what the ASUS board is priced at. The 785G board from ASUS, I know is priced higher than the Gigabyte. Hence I have opted for the latter each time.

 

[Asit]

Thank you all for your recent inputs on the reliability issue and other component suggestions. I am tending to stick to my usual PC supplier for the motherboard and the processor, HDD and RAM because he usually takes care of all these things in case there is some problem. He is a very honest and reliable person. Actually I asked him about Dell PC (he is a Dell dealer too), and he said an assembled one would be better for the same price with only one difference. The cabinet and and the power supply of the assembled PC would be much inferior, and if I want these of a good quality I will have to buy separately and get from other cities because in Kolkata these are not available in plenty. Now after all the discussions with you people, it seems that he said all the correct things. He told me he deals with both Asus and Gigabyte, so I'll have to ask him which offers better service. Western Digital service used to be great, but with increased customer base recently they are struggling a bit.

Now on the question of using this PC as a music source to my main system: With the graphics card, heating and increased noise and interference, it may not be the ideal music PC or htpc any more. In any case I do not have a furniture set-up where this PC can be placed permanently as a music source or a htpc next to my rig. But I would like to consider this as an alternative source which can be put to service whenever required or desired (in addition also with my other amp perhaps, and then I definitely need a very good sound card and a set of decent speakers). To start with I am not going to buy something like a Xonar. But if something reasonable is available, much cheaper, to be used with the computer speakers, I shall definitely consider it now.

Regards.

 

[Asit]

Hi asliarun,

Thanks a lot for your very detailed last post. I'll keep the points in mind and may clarify a few points as I make my decisions on each component.

The Dell monitors are the ones to have, I agree 100%. But they are probably very expensive. We have them at my workplace as monitors for the main servers. BTW, pardon my ignorance, but do computer monitors come with HDMI connections? Because for the ones I have looked at so far from Samsung and LG, it does look like they have HDMI connectivity.

Regards.

 

[thevortex]

The BenQ suggested above does have HDMI connections. But this is by no means a general thing. A lot of computer monitors come with DVI connections.

 

[asliarun]

You're welcome! Yes, as thevortex mentioned, HDMI is more commonly found in large monitors. In 19-20" category, it is not very common, and connectivity is usually DVI. One more thing I can mention from personal experience, please also see if your display has tilt, swivel, and height adjustment. A lot of monitors are not even height adjustable, which might cause you to hunch a lot in your desk. The monitor should ideally be tall enough that your eye level should be at the mid point of the monitor screen.

I'm not very sure of current India prices (I buy a lot of hardware but not from India), but from what I can see, Dell monitors seem to be priced at about 8-9k for 19" but the price shoots up from 20" and above. However, I don't think they have HDMI for most of the 19 inchers, so another brand might be better.

 

[thevortex]

You're welcome! Yes, as thevortex mentioned, HDMI is more commonly found in large monitors. In 19-20" category, it is not very common, and connectivity is usually DVI. One more thing I can mention from personal experience, please also see if your display has tilt, swivel, and height adjustment. A lot of monitors are not even height adjustable, which might cause you to hunch a lot in your desk. The monitor should ideally be tall enough that your eye level should be at the mid point of the monitor screen.

I'm not very sure of current India prices (I buy a lot of hardware but not from India), but from what I can see, Dell monitors seem to be priced at about 8-9k for 19" but the price shoots up from 20" and above. However, I don't think they have HDMI for most of the 19 inchers, so another brand might be better.

The Dell worth buying is the Ultrasharp with the IPS panel. But they have grossly overpriced it and it seems that they have stopped making the 20" W Ultrasharp models which were somewhat affordable. I think the Ultrasharp is available only from 24" onwards, which makes it difficult to recommend.

 

[prakasse]

Hi asliarun,

BTW, pardon my ignorance, but do computer monitors come with HDMI connections? Because for the ones I have looked at so far from Samsung and LG, it does look like they have HDMI connectivity.

Regards.

I have Benq E22HD FULLHD monitor that has HDMI connectivity. I connect it to pioneer dv610 and picture quality is good. I got it for 11.5K. Now the prices has gone down.

Thanks,
Senthil.

 

[sridhar-v]

Hi Asit!

I have been using an Imac for 3.5+years. Not one crash or virus attack. Perfect operation & near audiophile sound.

Go ahead bindaas.

Sridhar V

 

[corElement]

My pc is sooo old but I still run everything on it XD thanks to an ati radeon 3650 agp. Brought the nforce 2 mobo from 2002 back to life running win7 playing crysis and all,

amd athlon xp 1800+
2gb ram
nforce 2 ultra 400