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Edited to provide some indexing to help a new reader find the relevant part he/she may be looking for in this very long thread filled with very valuable inputs from the members (this indexing is copied from post #4 of the thread http://www.hifivision.com/amplifier...ost-disc-speakers-amps-such-things-life.html:)
PART I: Post #1 (page 1) to Post #58 (page 6)
Introduction, Discussion of a variety of amps
(Post #56 on page 6 has the first mention of Leben CS300, the amp ultimately purchased)
PART II: Post #59 (page 6) to Post #126 (page 13)
The Auditions: Quad 909/99 (Post #59, page 6), Cadence VA-1 (Post #68, page 7), Cayin A-88T (Post #96, page 10)
(Post #119 on page 12 has the Leben CS300 mentioned for the second time)
PART III: Post #127 (page 13) to Post #286 (page 29)
Pre-Power: Discussions on active and passive pre-amplifiers and power amplifiers
(This is the longest and the most technical part. This part ends with the news of dinyaar's acquisition of his new Accuphase E350 integrated amp)
PART IV: Post #287 (page 29) to Post #360 (page 36)
Speakers: Sensitivity, wattage requirements etc
(This section involves more the low powered tube amps, especially the 12 wpc Leben CS300 amp quite prominently)
PART V: Post #361 (page 37) to Post #448 (page 45)
The Purchase: Impressions, Feed-back and Burn-ins
PART VI: Continuing since Post #449 (page 45)
Speaker Positioning and Stands
Now, the first post as it was originally posted:
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
The purpose of this thread is to explore the possibility of an amp upgrade in my stereo setup and determine what is the minimum level needed to achieve a significant improvement over the current set-up.
Some of you may already know my current modest setup from other threads. Well for everybody, the core of the set-up comprises of a Nad c325bee integrated stereo amp, a CA azur 740c cdp and a pair of Canton Karat 60 speakers. My setup has other elements like cassette players etc too, but for this discussion let us skip those.
Since most of you would not have any idea of my speakers and not much is currently available on the net, let me try to give you as much information as I could gather. These speakers were bought in Germany in 1989 and since then have made two transcontinental trips to finally settle down in Kolkata and very unusually I have lost most of the documentation on them on the way somewhere. Most of the information I am giving below is from a scanned version of the tech spec written in German that I found from the net after a lot of serach in german sites.
Canton Karat 60
-price paid: 2000 Deutsche Mark in 1989, top of the line of the Karat series at their production time.
-Description: Large bookshelf / floorstanding speakers
-3-way bass-reflex (confused about this, do not see any hole anywhere, except for something very narrow near the tweeter)
-Crossover freqency: 450/4500 Hz
-Woofer: 260 mm (10.2"), Midrange: 120 mm (4.7"), Tweeter: 25 mm (1") Aluminum-Manganese dome
-Nominal impedence: 4 Ohm
-Power rating: 100/150 Watt (nominal/max)
-Frequency range: 22 - 30,000 Hz
-Sensitivity: SPL (1 W, 1 m) = 93.4 dB
-Distortion: less than 0.7%
-Emission angle: more than 125 degrees
-Flankensteilheiten (Steepness?): 12/12-12/12 dB/octave
-Dimensions: W x H x D = 31 cm (12.2") x 58 cm (22.8") x 31 mm (12.2"), Volume 56.6 l (each)
-Weight 16.5 Kg (each)
-Use: For amplifiers upto 130 Watts, for rooms upto 55 sq metres (592 sq ft)
That's all the tech. information I got about these speakers, folks! The sound is simply marvellous. Recently when I was auditioning different CDPs in a similar setup as home, the Dali Ikon 6, for example, came way short in overall performance, something that was so obvious that my 17 year old son who grew up listening to these Canton speakers smilingly admitted in the showroom.
The little Nad (50 wpc @ 8 Ohms) drives them very well. Can't remember ever going past 11 O'clock in the volume knob. The room is largish by Indian city standard (16' x 25'). The soundstage is huge and usually at that volume the whole apartment is filled with music.
As I have said already plenty of times in this forum in different threads that I am more than happy with my CDP 740c. It has a lot of details, yet very musical at all freq ranges. In addition it has a crisp at the same time smooth presentation usual in analogue sources (I am very familiar with good quality analogue sources (untill recently I had a Dual CS 5000 turntable and a 3 head cassette deck with bias control both of which have died because of age).
So the obvious point of upgrade is the amp - the little Nad c325bee.
I would not say I am totally unhappy with the amp. Actually I am quite happy about many things that it does. In brief there are three things I like to mention I like very much : It produces a decent soundstage, dynamic response is the best in this price range extending up to quite pricier products, it creates correctly the emotional and musical atmosphere.
I know a lot of people thrash Nad in general, and the c325bee in particular. From whatever little I know about music and especially the kind of music I listen to (mostly Indian classical music, although I listen to all kinds of music), my little Nad, especially with proper source and speakers, conveys the music better than many above its price range.
I tend to ignore many of its shortcomings (which are also well-known, for example lack of clarity and details that I ideally want, lack of desired overall punch at times, some colorations etc etc) because for the price I pay more importance to the criteria in the above paragraph I consider more important for music, especially Indian classical music. To give an example, in our musical culture we do not mind Ravi Shankar tuning his Sitar or Bhimsenji clearing his throat in the middle of their concerts, because we are more interested in the exposition of the ragas they are playing or singing.
But now if I want to improve on the details, clarity, punch and timing while keeping the strengths of the Nad intact (or even improved), I would like to know what are my options within as little budget as possible. In other words, whether significant improvement is possible, let's say, by investing 50K (for example) on an integrated amp. Or do I have to spend 75-80 K at least for that, or an even higher amount? BTW, I do NOT need a lot of power, anything that drives my Cantons as well as the Nad.
Based on your inputs, I have to plan my finances and do feasibility studies. All the experts, please help. This kind of excercise may help other people too. I may or may not end up upgrading my amp in the immediate future.
Edited to provide some indexing to help a new reader find the relevant part he/she may be looking for in this very long thread filled with very valuable inputs from the members (this indexing is copied from post #4 of the thread http://www.hifivision.com/amplifier...ost-disc-speakers-amps-such-things-life.html:)
PART I: Post #1 (page 1) to Post #58 (page 6)
Introduction, Discussion of a variety of amps
(Post #56 on page 6 has the first mention of Leben CS300, the amp ultimately purchased)
PART II: Post #59 (page 6) to Post #126 (page 13)
The Auditions: Quad 909/99 (Post #59, page 6), Cadence VA-1 (Post #68, page 7), Cayin A-88T (Post #96, page 10)
(Post #119 on page 12 has the Leben CS300 mentioned for the second time)
PART III: Post #127 (page 13) to Post #286 (page 29)
Pre-Power: Discussions on active and passive pre-amplifiers and power amplifiers
(This is the longest and the most technical part. This part ends with the news of dinyaar's acquisition of his new Accuphase E350 integrated amp)
PART IV: Post #287 (page 29) to Post #360 (page 36)
Speakers: Sensitivity, wattage requirements etc
(This section involves more the low powered tube amps, especially the 12 wpc Leben CS300 amp quite prominently)
PART V: Post #361 (page 37) to Post #448 (page 45)
The Purchase: Impressions, Feed-back and Burn-ins
Sub-part V(a): Post #361 (page 37) to Post #367 (page 37)
New Speaker Cable
Sub-part V(b): Post #368 (page 37) to Post #435 (page 44)
The New Amp: Leben CS300
Sub-part V(c): Post #436 (page 44) to Post #448 (page 45)
New IC Burn-in
New Speaker Cable
Sub-part V(b): Post #368 (page 37) to Post #435 (page 44)
The New Amp: Leben CS300
Sub-part V(c): Post #436 (page 44) to Post #448 (page 45)
New IC Burn-in
PART VI: Continuing since Post #449 (page 45)
Speaker Positioning and Stands
Now, the first post as it was originally posted:
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
The purpose of this thread is to explore the possibility of an amp upgrade in my stereo setup and determine what is the minimum level needed to achieve a significant improvement over the current set-up.
Some of you may already know my current modest setup from other threads. Well for everybody, the core of the set-up comprises of a Nad c325bee integrated stereo amp, a CA azur 740c cdp and a pair of Canton Karat 60 speakers. My setup has other elements like cassette players etc too, but for this discussion let us skip those.
Since most of you would not have any idea of my speakers and not much is currently available on the net, let me try to give you as much information as I could gather. These speakers were bought in Germany in 1989 and since then have made two transcontinental trips to finally settle down in Kolkata and very unusually I have lost most of the documentation on them on the way somewhere. Most of the information I am giving below is from a scanned version of the tech spec written in German that I found from the net after a lot of serach in german sites.
Canton Karat 60
-price paid: 2000 Deutsche Mark in 1989, top of the line of the Karat series at their production time.
-Description: Large bookshelf / floorstanding speakers
-3-way bass-reflex (confused about this, do not see any hole anywhere, except for something very narrow near the tweeter)
-Crossover freqency: 450/4500 Hz
-Woofer: 260 mm (10.2"), Midrange: 120 mm (4.7"), Tweeter: 25 mm (1") Aluminum-Manganese dome
-Nominal impedence: 4 Ohm
-Power rating: 100/150 Watt (nominal/max)
-Frequency range: 22 - 30,000 Hz
-Sensitivity: SPL (1 W, 1 m) = 93.4 dB
-Distortion: less than 0.7%
-Emission angle: more than 125 degrees
-Flankensteilheiten (Steepness?): 12/12-12/12 dB/octave
-Dimensions: W x H x D = 31 cm (12.2") x 58 cm (22.8") x 31 mm (12.2"), Volume 56.6 l (each)
-Weight 16.5 Kg (each)
-Use: For amplifiers upto 130 Watts, for rooms upto 55 sq metres (592 sq ft)
That's all the tech. information I got about these speakers, folks! The sound is simply marvellous. Recently when I was auditioning different CDPs in a similar setup as home, the Dali Ikon 6, for example, came way short in overall performance, something that was so obvious that my 17 year old son who grew up listening to these Canton speakers smilingly admitted in the showroom.
The little Nad (50 wpc @ 8 Ohms) drives them very well. Can't remember ever going past 11 O'clock in the volume knob. The room is largish by Indian city standard (16' x 25'). The soundstage is huge and usually at that volume the whole apartment is filled with music.
As I have said already plenty of times in this forum in different threads that I am more than happy with my CDP 740c. It has a lot of details, yet very musical at all freq ranges. In addition it has a crisp at the same time smooth presentation usual in analogue sources (I am very familiar with good quality analogue sources (untill recently I had a Dual CS 5000 turntable and a 3 head cassette deck with bias control both of which have died because of age).
So the obvious point of upgrade is the amp - the little Nad c325bee.
I would not say I am totally unhappy with the amp. Actually I am quite happy about many things that it does. In brief there are three things I like to mention I like very much : It produces a decent soundstage, dynamic response is the best in this price range extending up to quite pricier products, it creates correctly the emotional and musical atmosphere.
I know a lot of people thrash Nad in general, and the c325bee in particular. From whatever little I know about music and especially the kind of music I listen to (mostly Indian classical music, although I listen to all kinds of music), my little Nad, especially with proper source and speakers, conveys the music better than many above its price range.
I tend to ignore many of its shortcomings (which are also well-known, for example lack of clarity and details that I ideally want, lack of desired overall punch at times, some colorations etc etc) because for the price I pay more importance to the criteria in the above paragraph I consider more important for music, especially Indian classical music. To give an example, in our musical culture we do not mind Ravi Shankar tuning his Sitar or Bhimsenji clearing his throat in the middle of their concerts, because we are more interested in the exposition of the ragas they are playing or singing.
But now if I want to improve on the details, clarity, punch and timing while keeping the strengths of the Nad intact (or even improved), I would like to know what are my options within as little budget as possible. In other words, whether significant improvement is possible, let's say, by investing 50K (for example) on an integrated amp. Or do I have to spend 75-80 K at least for that, or an even higher amount? BTW, I do NOT need a lot of power, anything that drives my Cantons as well as the Nad.
Based on your inputs, I have to plan my finances and do feasibility studies. All the experts, please help. This kind of excercise may help other people too. I may or may not end up upgrading my amp in the immediate future.
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