Another Cable Discussion

veekm

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Just curious - what's the known reason/science behind these cords.. The bridge rectifier inside had very narrow diode terminals but that's on the low voltage side.. the transformer itself has copper wire that's not particularly special.. the power wire itself is connected to some kind of ordinary terminal block.. Has anyone opened their system and looked at the transformer lamination EI - they are usually of ultra crappy quality because they get wound over ..

ergo.. any datasheet/spec for these cables..

for 1800/, that's almost the cost of an intel cpu these days.. or 90m of 14 AWG.. (btw that link has a Cable Chart so you can size/calculate the correct AWG for your wires)

How thick do you want your wires - I'll sell you some and a time-share on my new oscilloscope? (2000x20 ppl = 40k)
 
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Just curious - what's the known reason/science behind these cords.. The bridge rectifier inside had very narrow diode terminals but that's on the low voltage side.. the transformer itself has copper wire that's not particularly special.. the power wire itself is connected to some kind of ordinary terminal block.. Has anyone opened their system and looked at the transformer lamination EI - they are usually of ultra crappy quality because they get wound over ..

ergo.. any datasheet/spec for these cables..

for 1800/, that's almost the cost of an intel cpu these days.. or 90m of 14 AWG.. (btw that link has a Cable Chart so you can size/calculate the correct AWG for your wires)

How thick do you want your wires - I'll sell you some and a time-share on my new oscilloscope? (2000x20 ppl = 40k)
After going through your posting, I almost forgot whatever little knowledge I had regarding the power cord and connectors.
 
Just curious - what's the known reason/science behind these cords.. The bridge rectifier inside had very narrow diode terminals but that's on the low voltage side.. the transformer itself has copper wire that's not particularly special.. the power wire itself is connected to some kind of ordinary terminal block.. Has anyone opened their system and looked at the transformer lamination EI - they are usually of ultra crappy quality because they get wound over ..

ergo.. any datasheet/spec for these cables..

for 1800/, that's almost the cost of an intel cpu these days.. or 90m of 14 AWG.. (btw that link has a Cable Chart so you can size/calculate the correct AWG for your wires)

How thick do you want your wires - I'll sell you some and a time-share on my new oscilloscope? (2000x20 ppl = 40k)
if our arteries are narrow, does it mean we don’t need clean blood ? I bet you change all those wires you mentioned and sound will surely get better. But we can only change what we can change. Power cords are easiest thing to change.
 
Just curious - what's the known reason/science behind these cords.. The bridge rectifier inside had very narrow diode terminals but that's on the low voltage side.. the transformer itself has copper wire that's not particularly special.. the power wire itself is connected to some kind of ordinary terminal block.. Has anyone opened their system and looked at the transformer lamination EI - they are usually of ultra crappy quality because they get wound over ..

ergo.. any datasheet/spec for these cables..

for 1800/, that's almost the cost of an intel cpu these days.. or 90m of 14 AWG.. (btw that link has a Cable Chart so you can size/calculate the correct AWG for your wires)

How thick do you want your wires - I'll sell you some and a time-share on my new oscilloscope? (2000x20 ppl = 40k)
Hi,
It gets “Curiouser and curiouser!” (As Alice said in Wonderland)
I was a sceptic (with limited technical knowledge of metallurgy, electro magneti) till I did some comparisons between different speaker cable/wires, using the same Audio files, same system, in the same room, in about an hours time, with no influence of alcohol etc, and ....to my surprise I heard differences between them.

I struggled to describe these differences between them and could not decide which of the wires I preferred. I felt like an Audiofool.

The cables I used were all 2 metre pairs, terminated with banana plugs: Naim NAC A5, Chord company, Audio Technica and a QED. I bought all of them for @4000 or less for each pair.

To top everything the Naim NAC A 5 cable even had arrows marked showing the direction which presumably electrons flow better (not faster or slower, just better on Naim equipment!)

I concluded my little experiment consoling myself that science and religions have been at it for centuries with no clear winners, so I can maybe in the meantime .... just enjoy the music?

I am planning to get a power cable from Mr. Murthy. I have been his customer. His workmanship is impeccable.
 
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To top everything the Naim NAC A 5 cable even had arrows marked showing the direction which presumably electrons flow better (not faster or slower, just better on Naim equipment!)

I concluded my little experiment consoling myself that science and religions have been at it for centuries with no clear winners, so I can maybe in the meantime .... just enjoy the music?
electrons don't flow :( there's no net transfer of electrons like water molecules.. it's like a Tirupati temple queue packed with people. When a cracker goes off at one end of the queue, the blast frightens people who will push away from that noise and then they realize "oh it's just a cracker" so they go back to doing whatever still in the queue.. but that pulse of panic travels the length of the queue.. with electrons, the probability distribution that tells you where the electrons are at any given time will change which is equivalent to flow of energy

Think of it like a jam packed Tirupati queue where each electron is standing in it's place all the time except during the cracker blast when it shifts in panic transmitting that fright to the next electron.. material defects don't prevent the electron from transmitting fright/fear unless the material is torn apart

has great intuitive explanations of most electronic concepts http://amasci.com/amateur/transis.html
Hope this doesn't ruin you appreciation of music..
 
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electrons don't flow :( there's no net transfer of electrons like water molecules.. it's like a Tirupati temple queue packed with people. When a cracker goes off at one end of the queue, the blast frightens people who will push away from that noise and then they realize "oh it's just a cracker" so they go back to doing whatever still in the queue.. but that pulse of panic travels the length of the queue.. with electrons, the probability distribution that tells you where the electrons are at any given time will change which is equivalent to flow of energy

Think of it like a jam packed Tirupati queue where each electron is standing in it's place all the time except during the cracker blast when it shifts in panic transmitting that fright to the next electron.. material defects don't prevent the electron from transmitting fright/fear unless the material is torn apart

has great intuitive explanations of most electronic concepts http://amasci.com/amateur/transis.html
Hope this doesn't ruin you appreciation of music..
Thanks for correcting my mistake. I am getting flashback memories of my high school physics classes! (I mean it in a nice way) Loved the Diwali cracker and human behavior example and the temple queue panic examples.
What about the directionality?
 
As in the Naim NAC A5 cables. They are marked with arrows - presumably indicating the direction for wiring Amp to speakers
 
Directional cables are usually ICs.
Depending on how the shield/drain-wire is terminated determines the direction of connection.
If I remember correctly, the source side (upstream) is terminated and destination side (downstream) is floating.
No idea about directional speaker cables; maybe they have some filter/choke element.

Cheers,
Raghu
 
Just curious - what's the known reason/science behind these cords.. The bridge rectifier inside had very narrow diode terminals but that's on the low voltage side.. the transformer itself has copper wire that's not particularly special.. the power wire itself is connected to some kind of ordinary terminal block.. Has anyone opened their system and looked at the transformer lamination EI - they are usually of ultra crappy quality because they get wound over ..

ergo.. any datasheet/spec for these cables..

for 1800/, that's almost the cost of an intel cpu these days.. or 90m of 14 AWG.. (btw that link has a Cable Chart so you can size/calculate the correct AWG for your wires)

How thick do you want your wires - I'll sell you some and a time-share on my new oscilloscope? (2000x20 ppl = 40k)
Sorry, I dont understand what you mean ....

(I am not familiar with these particular Speaker Cables)

Can you please explain the use of a Bridge Rectifier and Transformer within the speaker cables? :oops:

Is there a site that shows where and how these are incorporated into Speaker cables...

I think I am missing something ..... o_O

Somewhat off topic, but since you have referred to it ... would love to know specific details (Brand & Model Number) of yr new O'scope
 
Directional cables are usually ICs.
Depending on how the shield/drain-wire is terminated determines the direction of connection.
If I remember correctly, the source side (upstream) is terminated and destination side (downstream) is floating.
No idea about directional speaker cables; maybe they have some filter/choke element.

Cheers,
Raghu
Hi Raghu,
These Naim cables are from a roll, (unterminated) with no ICs or any thing.
I tried connecting them in either direction but could not hear a difference . My hearing is not what it used to be.

here is a discussion on the issue at the Naim Forum:

 
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As in the Naim NAC A5 cables. They are marked with arrows - presumably indicating the direction for wiring Amp to speakers
well.. design is optimised for use with Naim Audio amplifiers and any loudspeakers by ensuring that its capacitance, inductance and resistance are entirely compatible.

I don't know anything about the amp or the speakers.. what you want is the service manual which will have the schematic.. (the assumption being the schematic is a true representation of what's present)

Usually you don't need to bother about wire directionality - when you connect a voltage source to a wire, which is a metal, there's an ocean of electrons between the two points.. and conduction of energy is taking place within that ocean NOT within the material itself.. that is, metals have a crystal lattice to hold the wire together - each atom linked to the next atom by strong chemical bonds enhanced by the face structure (the alignment/composition of atoms in a cube) - this gives the wire mechanical strength BUT CONDUCTION of electrical energy is taking place in the ocean of valence electrons.. so either direction is okay UNLESS the wire is modified in some way, for marketing purposes or otherwise - they could attach a diode to one conductor for whatever reason..

Imagine it like this, lets say planet Earth, is an atom.. the valence electrons are in the cloudy upper atmosphere busy transferring energy through waves motion.. what's happening on the ground or lower atmosphere won't affect it..

What he means by RLC is impedance matching for power transfer
 
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Somewhat off topic, but since you have referred to it ... would love to know specific details (Brand & Model Number) of yr new O'scope
I don't own a Siglent 1104XE or 1204XE or Rigol, 1GSa/s 200mhz 4channel - shipping+duty are pretty expensive :( ToolBoom during xmas sells them with free shipping but you need a card etc or wire transfer.

(Hence my shock at the cost of Mr.Murthy's power cables and praise for Mr.Murthy.. unless Mr.Murthy rolls his copper himself from ingot copper.. and draws them out himself.. Indian manufacturing needs to be subsidized - what i dislike is some clever cog, buying from China/elsewhere, assembling it here and sticking on a huge markup with clever marketing designed to fool Indian ears - unless of course clever cog donates a significant chunk of his loot to indian schools for o'scopes :p)

Regarding the speaker cables: you'll have to ask whoever took that/my image out of the 'Murthy' thread and created this one.. he has his own ideas on what I was trying to say and thought my posts to be not relevant to Mr.Murthy's cables.

Has anyone here done a double-blind study?
 
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I don't own a Siglent 1104XE or 1204XE or Rigol, 1GSa/s 200mhz 4channel - shipping+duty are pretty expensive :( ToolBoom during xmas sells them with free shipping but you need a card etc or wire transfer.

(Hence my shock at the cost of Mr.Murthy's power cables and praise for Mr.Murthy.. unless Mr.Murthy rolls his copper himself from ingot copper.. and draws them out himself.. Indian manufacturing needs to be subsidized - what i dislike is some clever cog, buying from China/elsewhere, assembling it here and sticking on a huge markup with clever marketing designed to fool Indian ears - unless of course clever cog donates a significant chunk of his loot to indian schools for o'scopes :p)

Regarding the speaker cables: you'll have to ask whoever took that/my image out of the 'Murthy' thread and created this one.. he has his own ideas on what I was trying to say and thought my posts to be not relevant to Mr.Murthy's cables.

Has anyone here done a double-blind study?

This is one of those topics which is debated in every audio forum and Audio asylum's Cable Forum is declared as DBT/ABX free and moderated accordingly

In the end if you can hear a difference then spend your money for the value and if you dont, then dont waste your money.

But of course If someone spends your money on an expensive cable you have every right to complain ;)

Quoting from Audio Asylum
Again, some may think so. In reality, there are many methods for determining preferences and accuracy of audio components. Measurement data is far more accurate than one's ears. DBT is simply one procedure. DBT does a great job in removing bias from comparisons. However, DBT does not imply that differences do not exist, only that these differences in this test, are below the levels of general audibility.
Many people feel that the true character of individual components is only realized after long term listening and living with the component in question. These people would argue that it takes time to fully appreciate or understand certain subtle differences that exist in various audio components.


 
well.. design is optimised for use with Naim Audio amplifiers and any loudspeakers by ensuring that its capacitance, inductance and resistance are entirely compatible.

I don't know anything about the amp or the speakers.. what you want is the service manual which will have the schematic.. (the assumption being the schematic is a true representation of what's present)

Usually you don't need to bother about wire directionality - when you connect a voltage source to a wire, which is a metal, there's an ocean of electrons between the two points.. and conduction of energy is taking place within that ocean NOT within the material itself.. that is, metals have a crystal lattice to hold the wire together - each atom linked to the next atom by strong chemical bonds enhanced by the face structure (the alignment/composition of atoms in a cube) - this gives the wire mechanical strength BUT CONDUCTION of electrical energy is taking place in the ocean of valence electrons.. so either direction is okay UNLESS the wire is modified in some way, for marketing purposes or otherwise - they could attach a diode to one conductor for whatever reason..

Imagine it like this, lets say planet Earth, is an atom.. the valence electrons are in the cloudy upper atmosphere busy transferring energy through waves motion.. what's happening on the ground or lower atmosphere won't affect it..

What he means by RLC is impedance matching for power transfer
Thanks.
I do use these cables with a Naim Nait 5i. I have attached a picture showing the arrow mark on the cable. (Can’t figure out why they are upside down, sorry). I heard that Linn also Mark their speaker cables with an arrow.
But...They do sound good together.
 

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Thanks.
I do use these cables with a Naim Nait 5i. I have attached a picture showing the arrow mark on the cable. (Can’t figure out why they are upside down, sorry). I heard that Linn also Mark their speaker cables with an arrow.
But...They do sound good together.
I did some googling - apparently - shielded cables so there's a wire mesh around the signal-wire that needs to be grounded and the path to ground is provided at one end.. (not at both ends) ergo the directionality.. meaning that if you reverse, your shield-mesh won't be 0V.. just test with your multimeter on the lowest resistance setting(smallest current)

It works like a Faraday Cage.. any Radio frequency signals/waves (think computer mouse movement) will induce currents in your signal wire and you'll hear an awful hissing/buzzing sounds at quiescent (when there is no audio being played) so with a metal cage around the wire, any induced emf gets 0'd to ground - if it's connected to ground

In differential signalling, they send an inverted copy of the signal across the 2nd wire and use a op-amp to reject anything different so shield's not that important.. (ethernet twisted pair uses that) but again.. it's up to the designer/schematic.. we can make an educated guess but if he's a jerk... mebbe he's doing some marketing in there.. (it's not technology wise important)

This has nothing to do with crystal lattice of metals and stuff - often companies will scrimp on parts by avoiding using an extra component in the bill of materials and then market this as a 'feature' to sound complicated/cool
 
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I did some googling - apparently - shielded cables so there's a wire mesh around the signal-wire that needs to be grounded and the path to ground is provided at one end.. (not at both ends) ergo the directionality.. meaning that if you reverse, your shield-mesh won't be 0V.. just test with your multimeter on the lowest resistance setting(smallest current)

It works like a Faraday Cage.. any Radio frequency signals/waves (think computer mouse movement) will induce currents in your signal wire and you'll hear an awful hissing/buzzing sounds at quiescent (when there is no audio being played) so with a metal cage around the wire, any induced emf gets 0'd to ground - if it's connected to ground

In differential signalling, they send an inverted copy of the signal across the 2nd wire and use a op-amp to reject anything different so shield's not that important.. (ethernet twisted pair uses that) but again.. it's up to the designer/schematic.. we can make an educated guess but if he's a jerk... mebbe he's doing some marketing in there.. (it's not technology wise important)

This has nothing to do with crystal lattice of metals and stuff - often companies will scrimp on parts by avoiding using an extra component in the bill of materials and then market this as a 'feature' to sound complicated/cool
Hi @veekm,
I must confess most of the technical bits in your narration went above my head. I will try to read it again and understand more. Thank you for taking the time to research it
 
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