Yogesh
Well-Known Member
I see many 2 way FS. They just seem like 2 way BS with mere elongated bodies. Are such FS any better in performance than BS? Or are they just a marketing gimmick to squeeze out a few bucks from customer?
Are 2 way FS any better than BS?
- Thread starter Yogesh
- Start date
Amitkg
Active Member
With a bigger cabinet, a 2-way FS is better for a bass response; but a lot depends on driver-design, cabinet design, and implementation and the room.
heliumflight
Well-Known Member
If bass is must then for floor standers else bookshelves
greenhorn
Well-Known Member
By the laws of physics, all other things being equal, a fs will play deeper than the equivalent bs
heliumflight
Well-Known Member
True!
If By 'elongated bodies' you mean the speaker enclosure volume it is to increase bass+volume. Hoffman's speaker law says you can only have two parameters of (1) bass Extension (2) Efficiency (spl) (3) Small enclousre.
For example you cant have small enclosure along with bass extension and spl they will require large enclosure. Search Hoffmans three laws of speakers.
Regards.
forever.pramod
Active Member
- Duplicate Message -
greenhorn
Well-Known Member
Your answer while technically correct, really doesn't help the op whose question was whether the fs version of a bs have more bass, or are they simply paper tigers. Saying some Bs have more bass than some fs really doesn't help anyone. All it establishes is that there are exceptions to the rule.Please read my quote. I didn't say the equivalent bookshelf will have better bass. I said there are bookshelves which has better bass than many floors.
keith_correa
Well-Known Member
Look up “Hofmann's Iron Law”. Also depends on what "performance" means to you.
hifitoaster
Well-Known Member
There is no definite answer for this. Its a misconception that floor standers are all about bass. Depends on design, some bookshelves go lower than floorstanders. Bookshelves need very good stands to perform its best. Like Keith mentioned above idea of 'performance' varies from person to person. Some weight more soundstage depth width, imaging etc, some weight their favourite frequency response. In both the cases, keeping the room same, bookshelves give another possibilty with stands to tune in, with height adjustments to your listening height. But, sometimes, that may not be exactly what the manufacturer intended. But same logic applies to placing floorstanders in room. Again, it totally depends on how they are designed. I have never found one type constantly having an edge over the other in every ways.
Yogesh
Well-Known Member
Ok, concurrence seems towards all thing being same, FS offer better bass response than BS.
My fresh question is, Will it affect clarity of mid and higher frequency?
Couldn't agree more!
Yes, BS have this particular advantage.
My fresh question is, Will it affect clarity of mid and higher frequency?
Couldn't agree more!
Yes, BS have this particular advantage.
D
Deleted member 15865
Guest
Please read my quote. I didn't say the equivalent bookshelf will have better bass. I said there are bookshelves which has better bass than many floors. For eg. I had a FS from Dali which I disposed. The concept 6. Compared to my Sonus Faber toy tiny bookshelf speaker, I would say the concept 6 has no bass. I am not challenging any physics law here. But I have reached my conclusions from extensive comparisons. There is another bookshelf speaker I had used long back. The KEF Cresta 2. Its bass response is much deeper than most of the floors I tried. Long back, even I believed that the floor standers are the final word in sound. But unless you have a very large room, FS speakers don't sound as accurate as bookshelves. If you have the chance, try auditioning speakers like Minima Vintage and Concertino by Sonus Faber. You will forget that part of Physics you learned.
You need to keep other factors constant while comparing one across two options (BS and FS here). That’s what the others seem to be saying.
Check if that extra length of the FS has a transmission line. That can make a difference to the quality of bass, and hence overall quality of sound form same drivers. If it’s just dummy space, it won’t.
keith_correa
Well-Known Member
Incorrect! More, yes! Better, not necessarily!
No!
Since in your opening post you mentioned "elongated bodies" - let me ask you this: if I shortened the height of a floor stander so that it is no longer elongated vertically, but increase the depth to compensate for the reduced height, it now technically becomes a stand mount [or BS, in common parlance]. What is your reaction to that? Do you still consider that BS "elongated"?
Typically FS from the same product line as BS will have slightly more bass response.
It may have a slightly improved SPL too.
Now, would this be better? Well ... depends on the room.
It may mean you have to spend more time with placement and positioning.
Does it affect mid and high frequency?
If bass couples badly with the room, mids and highs can get affected as perceived by the ear.
This is commonly known as boomy or muddy sound.
Cheers,
Raghu
When i auditioned the SVS Prime BS and FS at dealer place, i found the BS lot more Precise and controlled. The FS exhibited more Bass, and better SPL but somehow it wasn't as Precise and controlled as the BS.
now this comparison is done with every other thing being a constant including the Room, and other Equipment like CDP, Amp, Wires etc..
But IMO this is not the right way to compare. The FS due to more drivers and 3 way Caps need more power to push them at a given SPL whereas the BS will need a lot lesser power (assuming they both are same family). Also Fundamentally, we are erring by comparing a much larger range of a FS (say 25 Hz to 25 Khz) to a limited range of a BS (typically around 55-60 Hz to 25 Khz).
So the parameters of comparison are all skewed up even for same family of loudspeakers. From my limited experience, the room size and shape plays a great role in one determining the types (FS vs BS)
now this comparison is done with every other thing being a constant including the Room, and other Equipment like CDP, Amp, Wires etc..
But IMO this is not the right way to compare. The FS due to more drivers and 3 way Caps need more power to push them at a given SPL whereas the BS will need a lot lesser power (assuming they both are same family). Also Fundamentally, we are erring by comparing a much larger range of a FS (say 25 Hz to 25 Khz) to a limited range of a BS (typically around 55-60 Hz to 25 Khz).
So the parameters of comparison are all skewed up even for same family of loudspeakers. From my limited experience, the room size and shape plays a great role in one determining the types (FS vs BS)
hifitoaster
Well-Known Member
Some entry level bookshelves and their tower models have the same drivers, and same crossovers, but even in these cases, the extra long cabin, means the drivers are more free to move. The sound coming from a driver gets colored by the cabin always. So a different cabin means, its a different sound, hence a different 'speaker' alltogether. Depending on how the driver design, a smaller cabin or a longer cabin may get favoured.
Simple example. Keep a driver in open space; keep it in box. You can notice that, the sound variation a cabin brings is not just limited to the bass, but also with higher frequencies. The tone of vocals and depending on how good higher freq is, you get two different coloration.
Again, in a longer cabin, the driver acts is more close to an open baffle, that means, unless the surrounds are tighter, since the air suspension behind is now softer due to larger cabin volume, it can get 'loose' sounded. But more open, less boxy.
This also has another effect. Since its now slow to respond, due to the temporal overlap of vibrations in accordance to the adjacent signals coming from the amp, can result in loosing of 'clarity'.
When you move the cone a driver without anything connected to its terminal with hands, it can produce a current at its terminal just like microphone. Similarly, every slow vibration due to the free movement of the driver(in this case, free movement will be larger in larger cabinet), induces a larger current at the driver which needs to be fought by the amp to dominate it to sound right(tight).
So to compensate it we need more power to get it sound tight. Hence bookshelf version sounds more energetic at lower power amps. But, depending on drivers ability to stay composed at higher level of vibrations, bookshelves may run into distortion faster. Again totally depending on how the driver is designed.
A well designed cabin will have also, consideration of surface diffractions on the cabin, from the waves coming from the drivers. For example,some cabins have rounded front baffles, if you have noticed. Those are one way to kill the diffraction at the edges. To get a perspective
.
But manufactures treat their cabins, differently on bookshelf and floorstanding version, if designed right to overcome these limitations. If not done right , all the effects mentioned above are listenable.
Its not fair to compare bookshelf and floorstanders having different drivers and different xover components.
Simple example. Keep a driver in open space; keep it in box. You can notice that, the sound variation a cabin brings is not just limited to the bass, but also with higher frequencies. The tone of vocals and depending on how good higher freq is, you get two different coloration.
Again, in a longer cabin, the driver acts is more close to an open baffle, that means, unless the surrounds are tighter, since the air suspension behind is now softer due to larger cabin volume, it can get 'loose' sounded. But more open, less boxy.
This also has another effect. Since its now slow to respond, due to the temporal overlap of vibrations in accordance to the adjacent signals coming from the amp, can result in loosing of 'clarity'.
When you move the cone a driver without anything connected to its terminal with hands, it can produce a current at its terminal just like microphone. Similarly, every slow vibration due to the free movement of the driver(in this case, free movement will be larger in larger cabinet), induces a larger current at the driver which needs to be fought by the amp to dominate it to sound right(tight).
So to compensate it we need more power to get it sound tight. Hence bookshelf version sounds more energetic at lower power amps. But, depending on drivers ability to stay composed at higher level of vibrations, bookshelves may run into distortion faster. Again totally depending on how the driver is designed.
A well designed cabin will have also, consideration of surface diffractions on the cabin, from the waves coming from the drivers. For example,some cabins have rounded front baffles, if you have noticed. Those are one way to kill the diffraction at the edges. To get a perspective
But manufactures treat their cabins, differently on bookshelf and floorstanding version, if designed right to overcome these limitations. If not done right , all the effects mentioned above are listenable.
Its not fair to compare bookshelf and floorstanders having different drivers and different xover components.
keith_correa
Well-Known Member
Where are you getting all this information from???
hifitoaster
Well-Known Member
I cooked it up, to see if someone believes.. LOL!Where are you getting all this information from???
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