Are AVRs really cheap in Hong Kong

[rajat13777]

Hi,

I am new to setting up an HT system and was impressed with the Denon 1909 in Delhi. I will be visiting Hong Kong soon and am told that the Denon would cost a lot less there. Any one has any idea what could be the price there?

Also, if the price is really less, would it make sense to go for the 2309? How is it better (other than the 100W Vs 90W, which is the only thing I understand ;0)

Rajat

 

[venkatcr]

I am new to setting up an HT system and was impressed with the Denon 1909 in Delhi. I will be visiting Hong Kong soon and am told that the Denon would cost a lot less there. Any one has any idea what could be the price there?

Also, if the price is really less, would it make sense to go for the 2309? How is it better (other than the 100W Vs 90W, which is the only thing I understand ;0)

Rajat, prices in India will always be 30 to sometimes 50% more than what you will find in the International market. I am not sure about HK, but being close to the Chinese market, please be careful. You might be handed a refurbished unit with the claim it is new. If you have the time, get the unit demoed, and packed in front of your eyes.

Regarding the specs for 2309 and 1909, Raman has posted a very useful comparison sheet. That should give you the details you are looking for. If you need more specific info, please do come back on this thread.

Please read the comparison at the following link.

http://www.hifivision.com/surround-amplifiers-receivers/2623-denon-avr-09-comparison-sheet.html

Cheers

 

[exljp]

As venkat mentioned you need to be careful in HKG. There are many high end audio/video shops in HKG especially the Tsim Sha Tsui area (in Kowloon) which is a tourist spot. They dont display prices and just quote any price, basically they will try judge how much they can make from you. Do a google search on DENON authorised showrooms and visit them, they will give you correct pricing. The prices will be much cheaper compared to India.

 

[mridulgoel]

Hi,

I am new to setting up an HT system and was impressed with the Denon 1909 in Delhi. I will be visiting Hong Kong soon and am told that the Denon would cost a lot less there. Any one has any idea what could be the price there?

Also, if the price is really less, would it make sense to go for the 2309? How is it better (other than the 100W Vs 90W, which is the only thing I understand ;0)

Rajat

Yes

No doubt the products are a lot cheaper in HK, or the origin countries of the product...
As they are manufactured out there, and are apart of Customs, Frieght and all...

And same is the case for Denon, they are all made in China these dayz...

so it will be better, to buy from the origin location...

But yes, venkat & others are very correct, the duplicacy of the product is too much in China, as these dayz 95% of the brands have manufacturing unit out there, and you will find alternative with same features, looks, and stickers, of the original product, difference being the inner parts being

 

[rajat13777]

Hey thanks Ventak, Mridul & exl,

You guys give me hope.

Venkat,

Not sure I understand a lot of the stuff. But the greens and reds clearly point out that 1909 stands out as best value for money.

All,

The way that I understand off information on the net, I planned to follow these:

1. Be very clear which model you want - HK is known for "bait & switch" especially with people who are just shopping around for "good buys"
2. As far as possible, first go to Fortress. It is HKs biggest Electronics showroom and mentioned in the HKTA (Hong Kong Trade Association) book for "clean" deals. In other words, it is probably what Mustafa is to Singapore.
3. Get rates from Fortress & (only if needed) go to these tourist spots - TST etc and bargain hard.

My results were:

1. The ProFX guys in B'lore told me that in a budget of about 45-50, I should go for 1509 with PROFX Fusion5 speaker set. (They are planning to send a set of the speakers to Delhi for me to check) The 1509 retails at 25K, speakers, though retailed at 40K, are currently being sold at 20K (Diwali Discount). On enquiry, got to know that 1709 is abt 34K, 1909 @43K and 2309 @ 55K.
2. Went to Denon HK website and enquired about the authorised dealers & got a list. They did not mention any prices though.
3. Went to the fortress website and checked out what they have. Unfortunately, only the 1709 model is shown (hopefully they will have the 1509 and 1909 at the store). They are asking for HK$ 3128. That comes to about 21K INR only. So clearly a saving over the 34K cost here


Guess that calls for a buy from there afterall, obviously only from the Denon store or Fortress.

AND

I would really appreciate if you guys could help me with how to choose speakers for the AVR. Frankly, not much tech knowledge abt audio, but having heard Onkyo (2 nos), Yamaha (1 no), Marantz (2 nos), Sherwood (2 no) and HK (2 nos), I was only impressed with the HK.
Pardon my ingorance of not knowing the model numbers etc. But these were all within 25K to 50K.

BTW, the HK was cheapest, sounded the best with JBL satellite speakers, but was told to strictly lay off that set by a "tech guy".

ALSO,

would I be correct in deducting that HDMI up conversion means that the AVR would "amplify" video signal to HD Quality? Doesn't sound lise that can happen, unless I have a HD enabled video player and HD quality content on the DVD. But then, what would the AVR be doing is everything is already HD?

Apologize for mixing all this stuff, but I have been reading up about so much on this site and most of it is simply not comprehensible for me.


Looking forward to your responses.

Rajat

 

[venkatcr]

Not sure I understand a lot of the stuff. But the greens and reds clearly point out that 1909 stands out as best value for money.

You could be right. The 2309 has 10 watts per channel more and a few additional ports. That is all.

I would really appreciate if you guys could help me with how to choose speakers for the AVR. Frankly, not much tech knowledge abt audio, but having heard Onkyo (2 nos), Yamaha (1 no), Marantz (2 nos), Sherwood (2 no) and HK (2 nos), I was only impressed with the HK. Pardon my ingorance of not knowing the model numbers etc. But these were all within 25K to 50K.

There are a number of threads discussing speakers for AVRs. Once you finalise which AVR, we can sit down and discuss what you should audition. Please remember not to buy any speaker without listening to it yourself.

BTW, the HK was cheapest, sounded the best with JBL satellite speakers, but was told to strictly lay off that set by a "tech guy".

I don't understand why. Both JBL and HK are good, and if you liked the sound that is all that matters.

would I be correct in deducting that HDMI up conversion means that the AVR would "amplify" video signal to HD Quality? Doesn't sound lise that can happen, unless I have a HD enabled video player and HD quality content on the DVD. But then, what would the AVR be doing is everything is already HD?

Couple of things here. Do not buy a entry level AVR from any brand if you are interested in using HDMI well. We have just realized that entry level AVRS have something called '1080p pass through' in HDMI. In this mode they do not process any audio signals that come in through HDMI. Silly really, but that is what happens. In Denon you should look for 1909 and above.

HDMI upconversion is scaling (not amplifying) a video signal to 1080p that can be displayed on a FullHD TV. When you connect a DVD player to the AVR through any port (component/composite/s-video) and connect the AVR to the TV throgh an HDMI, the AVR will upscale the video signals to 1080p. You need a FullHD (not HD Ready) TV for this with 1920x1080 pixels resolutions.

Only AVRs that are specified to be capable of upscaling to 1080p will do this.

Cheers

 

[rajat13777]

Hey Venkat,

I understand this much better now, thanks again.


I have full HD TV and a PS3, so guess have everything that is otherwise needed. I am getting the details of the price of the 1909 in a day or two, so will get back to you with that so you can help me with the speakers.

You have been a great help, thx once again.

 

[raman340]

Hi Rajat
For your ref some things between 2309 and 1909:

		                                     2309    1909
-------------------------------------------------------------------
-RS-232C control                                    Yes      NO
-150mA Trigger out                                  Yes      NO
-Wattage 	                                     100 W    90 W
-HDMI in             	                             4 	      3
-s-video  	        	                     5 	      3
-composite 		                             5	      4	
-Analog audio 	  	                             9	      8
-Digital Optical 	                             3	      2   
-Preouts (Sats)		                             Yes      NO
-Audyssey		                             EQXT     EQ 
-Source Func Renaming                               Yes      No
-Phono input                                        Yes      No
-Video Conv ?? Composite to S-Video to Component     Yes      NO
-Video Conv ?? Composite to S-Video to Composite     Yes      Yes
-Analog to HDMI					     Yes      Yes
-Built In Time Based Correction                     Yes      NO
-Icon-Based On-Screen Display  			     Yes      Yes
-Pure Direct/Direct/Stereo Modes on                 Yes      NO
 Digital/Analog inputs

Pricing (INR)                                      ~50,000   ~40,000

Regards
Raman

 

[Rem]

For that budget do consider Q Acoustics 1010i 5.1 speaker package as well. It should be better than JBL Onkyo and HK.

also consider KEF KHT2005.3 and KEF KHT2005.2.

 

[sviyer]

What could the below possilbly mean??
-HDMI to HDMI Yes No

 

[raman340]

What could the below possilbly mean??
-HDMI to HDMI Yes No

Thanks for bringing it up. Since the receiver has HDMI pass through, I understood it means it doesn't process HDMI inputs (upscaling).

Perhaps I should remove it.
Correct me anybody..if I am still missing out anything...

 

[venkatcr]

Thanks for bringing it up. Since the receiver has HDMI pass through, I understood it means it doesn't process HDMI inputs (upscaling). Perhaps I should remove it. Correct me anybody..if I am still missing out anything...

It still does not make any sense. What it means is that the 1909 will accept inputs through any of it's HDMI INs, but it will not send any output through it's HDMI OUT.

What HDMI 'pass through' does is that the AVR will pass the video without any processing through to the display, and not process the audio at all.

Cheers

 

[raman340]

What it means is that the 1909 will accept inputs through any of it's HDMI INs, but it will not send any output through it's HDMI OUT.

but Venkat, from the manual pg-80, 1909 accepts "in's" from HDMI IN and "does" "out" through its HDMI OUT.
Is HDMI pass-through an ON/OFF setting?

What HDMI 'pass through' does is that the AVR will pass the video without any processing through to the display, and not process the audio at all.

From the manual: "The audio signals output from the HDMI connectors are only the HDMI input signals" (Pg 13)

 

[venkatcr]

but Venkat, from the manual pg-80, 1909 accepts "in's" from HDMI IN and "does" "out" through its HDMI OUT. Is HDMI pass-through an ON/OFF setting?

No it is not. If what you say is true what does 'HDMI to HMDI - NO' for 1909 mean? It should be YES.

From the manual: "The audio signals output from the HDMI connectors are only the HDMI input signals" (Pg 13)

This is correct. Most AVRs work as a switch. In other words, if you connect a DVD Player to the AVR through say a component (and coaxial for audio), and the AVR to the TV through HDMI, the AVR will upscale the video signal (If it has a upscaling engine), send the audio also to the TV, and process the audio signals for the speakers.

This works in one direction only in terms of the connectors. That is from the lowest to the highest - Composite, S-Video, Component, Coaxial, Optical, HDMI in that order. If you connect a DVD Player to the AVR with an HDMI, and the AVR to the TV through a component cable, you may not get any audio signal on the TV.

Cheers

 

[sviyer]

then it should mean that the 1909 will not upscale, say for e.g. a DVD player which is connected to the HDMI in of the AVR, but 2909 will be able to do so.

So in orderto get an upscaled picture with your DVD player which is HDMI enabled, you need to connect it via composite or RCA outputs to the AVR in 1909!!

 

[rajat13777]

No it is not. If what you say is true what does 'HDMI to HMDI - NO' for 1909 mean? It should be YES.



This is correct. Most AVRs work as a switch. In other words, if you connect a DVD Player to the AVR through say a component (and coaxial for audio), and the AVR to the TV through HDMI, the AVR will upscale the video signal (If it has a upscaling engine), send the audio also to the TV, and process the audio signals for the speakers.

This works in one direction only in terms of the connectors. That is from the lowest to the highest - Composite, S-Video, Component, Coaxial, Optical, HDMI in that order. If you connect a DVD Player to the AVR with an HDMI, and the AVR to the TV through a component cable, you may not get any audio signal on the TV.

Cheers

Hey Venkat,

So finally I got the AVR 1909!!
Got it at around 3AM last night so haven't quite startede exploring yet.

But just looking at the size of the manual and the number of input/output points at the back of the set convinced me that I would need to read up a LOT.

So, first, what would be a good place to start reading up about what are the different things I can do with this, or it would do for me. Next, like you said, where on the forums can I read up about the speakers?


BTW, this thread might actually help people, cause these AVRs are actually cheaper in HK. The 1909, on the profx site retails for around 45K, & I got mine for around 27-28K. There is no international warranty, but I guess I would still end up saving money, in case I do have to spend any amount. & i picked up the avr from a shop as mentioned by denon.hk site, so that seems OK too.

Looking forward to your (& ev'one else's) responses.

Rajat

 

[raman340]

If what you say is true what does 'HDMI to HMDI - NO' for 1909 mean? It should be YES.

The comparison was made entirely by me (for my ref with 2309 and around ~40 other amps). It's an interpretation. I thought, that HDMI signals also need upscaling and this set simply bypasses the HDMI signals as it is to the TV (no upscaling). This set (1909) (confirmed from the manual):
1 - Takes HDMI in and outputs HDMI (A and V) via HDMI out.
2 - For non-HDMI signals, the HDMI OUT will not carry any sound to TV. So one would need to hook up independent Audio outs or AV outs to enable sound from TV if the amp has to be kept off (at times). Note: Amp cannot be kept off for more than a week, else Audyssey settings and personal settings will be lost.
Ref: Denon AVR-1909 - Audio pass through question - AVForums.com

This is correct. Most AVRs work as a switch. In other words, if you connect a DVD Player to the AVR through say a component (and coaxial for audio), and the AVR to the TV through HDMI, the AVR will upscale the video signal (If it has a upscaling engine), send the audio also to the TV, and process the audio signals for the speakers.

Absolutely true, unfortunately in 1909 case, audio will not be sent via audio out if AVR is fed via Non-HDMI signals.

This works in one direction only in terms of the connectors. That is from the lowest to the highest - Composite, S-Video, Component, Coaxial, Optical, HDMI in that order. If you connect a DVD Player to the AVR with an HDMI, and the AVR to the TV through a component cable, you may not get any audio signal on the TV.

Yes, Infact in 1909 you wouldn't get "anything" out (in this case).

Attaching a section from manual (1909 HDMI capabilities):


I will remove HDMI-HDMI comparison.

 

[raman340]

then it should mean that the 1909 will not upscale, say for e.g. a DVD player which is connected to the HDMI in of the AVR, but 2909 will be able to do so.

So in orderto get an upscaled picture with your DVD player which is HDMI enabled, you need to connect it via composite or RCA outputs to the AVR in 1909!!

Indeed this is exactly what I was trying to clarify. Upconversion and Upscaling are separate features, so the following section doesn't say that HDMI signals cannot be upscaled.



But this is not confirmed, and also usa.denon.com states a difference between 2309 and 1909 which is:
HDMI Video Outputs *1080p Yes (2309) and No(1909)
Which made me think that 1909 doesn't upscale HDMI i/p's to 1080p.

 

[raman340]

BTW, this thread might actually help people, cause these AVRs are actually cheaper in HK. The 1909, on the profx site retails for around 45K, & I got mine for around 27-28K. There is no international warranty, but I guess I would still end up saving money, in case I do have to spend any amount. & i picked up the avr from a shop as mentioned by denon.hk site, so that seems OK too.

Looking forward to your (& ev'one else's) responses.

Rajat

Great price buddy. Congratulations on the purchase. Just a small question..Did your import attract a duty? If yes then what % was it? I myself am thinking of getting some relative do me this favour

 

[venkatcr]

Raman:

The 1909 brochure has the following for video section:

• Denon??s High Picture Quality Circuitry, to enhance enjoyment of existing DVDs
• Faroudja DCDi Video Processing
• Analog video to HDMI scaling up to 1080p
• 1080p video pass through

What this means is the following:

1. If you connect the DVD Player to the AVR through any of composite, component, or S-Video, and the AVR to the TV through an HDMI, the AVR will invoke the DCDi Video processing and upscale the video to 1080p. In this case, you also have to connect a coaxial or optical digital to get full surround sound.

2. If you connect the DVD Player to the AVR through an HDMI cable and the AVR to the TV through another HDMI cable, and IF the DVD Player sends a 1080p signal, the AVR will just it along to the TV as is.

The only thing I am not sure about 'video pass through' is whether or not the AVR will process the audio coming in through HDMI (DVD to AVR) as surround sound and power the speakers.

I suppose Rajath can experiment with some some connections and let us know what happens.

Congratulations, Rajath.

Cheers