Are CD Player still relevant?

[sidvee]

Well ROC you had the Cd1s if I am not mistaken. When I upgraded from the cd1s to the cd2s, IMO it sounded significantly better, not sure if the dac was better or transport. That being said, I haven't heard the best CD players or transports, at-best I am a novice in that field - I only owned mid-fi players so far, the Ayon cd2s being the best. However within the scope of my system, my current combo. of computer audio, into m2 tech. usd-spdif converter into skylla II is significantly better than the ayon cd2s and light years ahead of an older oppo bdp83 that I use as a transport. Same conclusion has been arrived at by another FM who has replaced his prism orpheus dac with the skylla II feeding a berkley audio design alpha converter - and he replaced his ayon cd2 cd player.
Also I have not experienced linear PSU for computer audio, and indeed for my current music PC I will need a large linear psu, so I will defer that to my next upgrade. Anyways even with that my system sounds excellent (of-course only to my ears) so if there is an improvement with it it will an icing on the cake. I have been reading a bit on linear psu and at-least from various users there is no consistency on across the board SQ improvement.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[reignofchaos]

Well ROC you had the Cd1s if I am not mistaken. When I upgraded from the cd1s to the cd2s, IMO it sounded significantly better, not sure if the dac was better or transport. That being said, I haven't heard the best CD players or transports, at-best I am a novice in that field - I only owned mid-fi players so far, the Ayon cd2s being the best. However within the scope of my system, my current combo. of computer audio, into m2 tech. usd-spdif converter into skylla II is significantly better than the ayon cd2s and light years ahead of an older oppo bdp83 that I use as a transport. Same conclusion has been arrived at by another FM who has replaced his prism orpheus dac with the skylla II feeding a berkley audio design alpha converter - and he replaced his ayon cd2 cd player.
Also I have not experienced linear PSU for computer audio, and indeed for my current music PC I will need a large linear psu, so I will defer that to my next upgrade. Anyways even with that my system sounds excellent (of-course only to my ears) so if there is an improvement with it it will an icing on the cake. I have been reading a bit on linear psu and at-least from various users there is no consistency on across the board SQ improvement.
Cheers,
Sid

The cd2 and cd1 have the same transport section. The DAC, I/V and tube buffer sections are very different though. Even the power supply section in the cd2 is better. That is the reason for better sound. So I guess the digital output will sound the same. Only in the cd5 do you get a better transport - the cd-pro2m from Philips.

There is no doubt that the m2tech evo and the Berkeley alpha converter would be better than the transport section of the ayon as they are the current state of the art in usb-spdif conversion. All I say is that the cd5 or similar being used as a transport would be a better comparison to either of those two.

 

[prem]

Guys, if you are serious about cd playback, get an Esoteric transport. Its miles ahead of the rest. Ideally get an used one since they are pretty much bullet proof. Either a P03 or a P05 or a P70. Should be in the range of 1.5 to 4 lakh for a used one depending on the condition.

 

[Saket]

Guys, if you are serious about cd playback, get an Esoteric transport. Its miles ahead of the rest.

So Prem, in your view, is it 'closer' to a real women?

Ideally get an used one.

Now what is this?

Ideally Prem, after your last analogy of CD vs Vinyl playback, I think you are giving the above view just to please us 'children' on the matter.
I have never heard a better analogy than this and the description was very apt!

 

[prem]

Hi Saket

Yes the playback through the Esoteric cd transport is very close to vinyl. I am talking real women here.

I have heard many digital systems. Almost all of them lack weight and body. The Esoteric transports gets that part right. No two ways about that. DAC, you can buy as per the flavour you like.

Top of the line DCS players, Playback all use Esoteric transports in their machines.

 

[sidvee]

Anyways without geting into specifics, at-least from my perspective, Cd players/transports are history. I will not invest in another one.
I am already planning on an upgrade path from my SkyllaII towards a DSD based solution for a DAC sometime next year (hopefully there are some better DSD releases by that time - more blue note jazz etc). I will also research options to make my computer based playback better, as RoC stated Linear PSU is one. I also believe better chassis/vibration control is another. And so on.
Only my personal opinions btw, please disregard if I am wrong, which I probably am, lot more FM's have greater exposure/knowledge than me.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[prem]

Hi Sidvee

Look at a mac mini music server from either Mojo Audio or Core Technology. If and when I get into computer audio I would look at these two. Damages are about USD 3000. It comes with linear power supply, resonance control and all necessary software and hardware upgrades.

 

[RMCWS]

I have around 100+ Acds (which I purchased only during last 1 year). I like to touch them, clean them, arrange them.

By the way, I do not have a dedicated CD player though.

 

[sidvee]

Hi Sidvee

Look at a mac mini music server from either Mojo Audio or Core Technology. If and when I get into computer audio I would look at these two. Damages are about USD 3000. It comes with linear power supply, resonance control and all necessary software and hardware upgrades.

Thanks Prem. Unfortunately I am a pc guy, no macs for me. Fortunately there are lot of solutions for these as well. Will research those. For instance like this monster linear PSU which can supply 800w.
Computer ?PC ATX? linear power supply
Costs are also not really much especially when one compares to a nice Cd transport/player.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[himadri]

Hi
Considering that I have no experience with computer audio , one silly query -When redbook CDs are ripped into the high resolution formats like FLAC etc into the computer , how does more information enter , if it was not there in the first place?
What is the availability of high resolution downloads of music of all types(western and indian) as compared to CDs?
Can someone clarify?
Cheers

 

[Viki]

Interesting thread. I have auditioned all kinds of digital music, still love the sound from the cdp better. Too old I guess.

 

[jls001]

Hi
When redbook CDs are ripped into the high resolution formats like FLAC etc into the computer , how does more information enter , if it was not there in the first place?

More info is not added. It is ripped as a .wav file of 16 bit depth at 44.1 kHz sampling rate. What was there in the CD is extracted "bit perfect". No addition/deletion. The ripping software may be additionally instructed to compress the .wav file to lossy .mp3 or lossless like .flac.

A high-res file has to be recorded, mixed, mastered and distributed at higher than 16/44 resolution. There are softwares and hardwares that can upsample a standard res to higher using mathematical interpolations, but that's not genuine high res.

 

[Naturelover]

@reignofchaos, for a PC build similar to yours, would an HDPlex linear power supply be good enough or would something like a mojo-audio Joule be worth the extra investment?

... the acoustic portrait CD pro2 transport which is close to state of the art in CD playback and is much much better than the ayon. To match this, the computer absolutely requires a linear power supply. With a switching power supply, it is a no contest. There is way too much noise that can be heard in a comparison.

@sidvee, won't 820W be overkill for a music PC?

For instance like this monster linear PSU which can supply 800w.
Computer ?PC ATX? linear power supply
Costs are also not really much especially when one compares to a nice Cd transport/player.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[dheerajin]

This Linear PSU will used for amp also..so it is no way overkill..in KVA it 1 KVA

 

[ranjeetrain]

CDs are definitely relevant. Even after decades LPs are still relevant, isn't it? No doubt for many who have started with CDs there is no alternate.

To the question as in CD player vs Computer based playback, to me, computer playback is miles ahead of any CD transport, including the ones that cost in 6-digits in Indian Rupee.

Any decent computer from the current generation, can be instantly converted into a great transport that will at least match any commercial transport costing up to Rs 1 lac. A well tweaked computer customized for only music playback sounds as good as anything on the market including transports in the range of Rs 2-3 lacs. I have heard some expensive transports and can say a customized computer comes eerily close to the absolute best there is. However, not everyone is patient enough or skilled enough to get a computer to sing. To them, a CD player is still the best way to play the CDs. Though the price to pay for this ease of use can be sometimes steep. For example: a Rs 50k computer transport with a Rs 100k DAC will be hard to beat without spending Rs 200-300k plus on a CD player.

So, essentially it is down to preferences. Some would like the simplicity of CD playback, others would like the sophistication of computer playback. Some would like that a CDP forces them to move, listen to the whole track/album, others would like that they can control the playback without moving, change the music at their whim with the ability to traverse through their entire collection at the speed of thought. Play according to just the mood, or play by the genre, or play by the artist.

To each his own is the mantra. CD playback is not dead yet. But if you dare, dare to taste the computer playback.

 

[reignofchaos]

@reignofchaos, for a PC build similar to yours, would an HDPlex linear power supply be good enough or would something like a mojo-audio Joule be worth the extra investment?

@sidvee, won't 820W be overkill for a music PC?

No idea about mojo audio - never heard of them to be honest. The specs don't seem to be clear - they do no mention what it is rated at, what are the actual distortion figures, nor do they have a photo of the insides and parts/topology used. I'd not buy it for sure.

 

[sidvee]

@sidvee, won't 820W be overkill for a music PC?

Sure it will be as would any pc for music playback that would require 820w power, but I threw it here just an an illustration, to say that a lot of accessories are available to make a music pc into a formidable source.
There are aluminium chassis such as:
Streacom FC10 Full Aluminium Fanless Chassis
power supplies such as the one above, etc.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[thx911]

To the question as in CD player vs Computer based playback, to me, computer playback is miles ahead of any CD transport, including the ones that cost in 6-digits in Indian Rupee.

Any decent computer from the current generation, can be instantly converted into a great transport that will at least match any commercial transport.

+1 that.

So a CD player is relevant but not reverent

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

how does more information enter , if it was not there in the first place?

It doesn't. As you are rightly supposing, information can't come from nowhere.

FLAC is not a "high-res" format so much as a non-lossy one. If you are ripping a CD to a FLAC file, you would do so to a 16/44.1 FLAC file. There would be nothing whatsoever to be gained by ripping it to a higher sample-rate or bit depth.

 

[himadri]

: a Rs 50k computer transport with a Rs 100k DAC will be hard to beat without spending Rs 200-300k plus on a CD player.

Thanks JLS,Thad and Ranjeet
That means if I am understanding correctly-It is the transport where a well optimised computer beats the CD player in price to performance ratio apart from adding flexibility ,assuming the DAC part perform equivalently.
Cheers