Are CD Player still relevant?

[Thad E Ginathom]

For touchy-feely, it has to be vinyl. Those horrible plastic "jewel" cases and the thin, badly printed liners never felt anything but dead to me. Put an LP of a record that changed my life in my hands, and watch my face. Then try it with the CD and see how quickly I put it down.

But when it comes to listening to the music, I'll take digital, thanks.

 

[fx20]

In my experience, audio songs in red book format, (which is what is audio CD resolution is, for the uninitiated) coming from the transport of a CDP definitely sound better than computer playback even when routed through the same DAC used for the computer playback.


This is how my sessions go too.

The BITS from CD and from 'computer file' going through the same DAC should convert to the same waveform, how to explain the former one sound better?

 

[jai1611]

The BITS from CD and from 'computer file' going through the same DAC should convert to the same waveform, how to explain the former one sound better?

Timing errors (or jitter).

Also, what processing is done in the digital domain can be quite different

 

[fx20]

Timing errors (or jitter).

Also, what processing is done in the digital domain can be quite different

The jitter should be the subject of DAC, not the transport.

If you rip the CD at bit-perfect, and bit stream to DAC, there isn't any processing.

 

[jai1611]

The jitter should be the subject of DAC, not the transport.

If you rip the CD at bit-perfect, and bit stream to DAC, there isn't any processing.

DAC can only reject incoming jitter. The USB interface or sound card that you use determines jitter from the PC. A lot off playback softwares claim to be bit perfect but sound different from one another. Similarly, there are subtle differences between flac and wav.

There are enough other threads on the forum that discuss this in depth. If you want to discuss further, look there.

 

[jls001]

The BITS from CD and from 'computer file' going through the same DAC should convert to the same waveform, how to explain the former one sound better?

This horse has been flogged to death many times over on this forum. Not that it leaves us collectively any wiser. An innocent (or otherwise) query will bring forth a flood of responses from foot soldiers on both sides of the trenches. "Bit are bits" flat earthers usually have more to say on the topic but "bits are different" round earthers don't give up easily either And so the skirmishes continue.

Back to regular programming....

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

In a recent "skirmish" on another site I witnessed an audio engineer being told that he should be adventurous enough to hear the differences between USB cables. Ahem.

I think that jitter is one of the most misunderstood and exaggerated "problems" in Audio.

If more people understood how digital audio works, maybe we wouldn't be chasing higher and higher sample rates.

Yes, bits most certainly are bits. And no, they don't change according to the colour of the cable.

Rationalism.

So... How is it that sometimes my PC sounds awful? And after a reboot it sounds fine?

Well, you've got me there --- because I've got myself there! :lol: Something is happening to those bits and, actually, there must be a rational answer but I don't have it yet (but it in the area of USB and USB powered devices, but that's another story.

CD players are just as bits-is-bits digital --- but this doesn't happen with CD players.

So, for completely worry-free music, they're relevant

 

[coaltrain]

and, now, we're off to the races with yet another 'which sounds better' discussion!

many moons ago, I used to be an avid pc gamer. did I say avid? make that fanatical! I would constantly upgrade graphics cards, motherboards, memory, cooling fans, monitors and god knows what else. all in the quest for more pristine pixels.

then, one fine day, I pulled the trigger on an xbox 360. that night, I connected the console to my ht setup, and popped in gears of war. as the roar of the locust horde blasted through my 5.1 speakers, and the craggy face of marcus fenix filled my 10' pj screen, all thoughts of anisotropic filtering and volumetric smoke flew out the window. I was no longer playing a video game, I was in it! and, that's when I decided that the overall experience was more important than the tiny details.

needless to say, there are many who disagree with my choice. the gaming forums are full of console bashers who believe a game should only be experienced on a pc. but, as dheerajin so eloquently put it, to each his own.

I believe ALL types of music playback - cd, vinyl, tape, reel to reel, pc - serve only one purpose: to lift your spirits with sound. as long as people love music, they'll be playing it back on whatever floats their boat.

on a completely random note, here's one of my favourite quotes from Tom Waits:
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy!

aaaah, the weekend approaches

 

[coaltrain]

Actually it is easier for me than before. No hassle purchase at amazon.in (for extreme value for money deals) or amazon.com/elusivedisc.com works beautifully. Yes you don't get to touch and feel the jewel cases but hey you save a lot of money and stuff arrives without much hassle.

+1 to that!

also, do check out amazon uk. vat is deducted on orders shipped to india, and they reach much faster than amazon us orders.

 

[prem]

To me computer audio is like watching a porn movie. Everything looks perfect but _ _ _.
Vinyl is more like having a real woman with you. The woman is probably not perfect but the experience _ _.

 

[Vinod.R]

I love CD players more than computer based audio........Why?

Here is why:

1) Turn power on
2) Press Eject
3) Press Play
4) Enjoy

In computer audio, you have so many parameters and unless you are a computer geek in downloading relevant software and requisite parameters, it is a tough ask.

I bet an old grandmother if asked to play a song thru the PC/laptop would shudder, but surely she can do it on a simple CD player?

Vinod

 

[Naturelover]

Ooh! What an analogy. Brilliant.

To me computer audio is like watching a porn movie. Everything looks perfect but _ _ _.
Vinyl is more like having a real woman with you. The woman is probably not perfect but the experience _ _.

 

[Naturelover]

But our post charges 42% customs duty :sad:.
Any way to circumvent that?

check out amazon uk. vat is deducted on orders shipped to india, and they reach much faster than amazon us orders.

 

[Robert Bose]

Very Well Put, specially the cold beverage part

I still feel a good mid end CD player, sounds better that

PC to Mid level DAC, or Low end DVD to Mid end DAC

Something like a Marantz 6005 or any equivalent should be good

Handling the CD and Cover Art is nice,

Trying to locate what you need to play out of 1000 alphabetically arranged folders

can be a pain though for HD files there is no other option

Robert Bose

 

[coaltrain]

But our post charges 42% customs duty :sad:.
Any way to circumvent that?

my apologies; I should've mentioned that you need to:

- keep your order value around 40gbp or less. so far, I've not paid any duty on orders of this size.
- preferably, order items that are stocked by amazon itself. third party sellers may not be as diligent in refunding vat or shipping on time.

 

[captrajesh]

The BITS from CD and from 'computer file' going through the same DAC should convert to the same waveform, how to explain the former one sound better?

You are posing that question to a wrong person. I'm not an Audio Engineer just a music lover, Fortunately for me, I learnt to trust my ears rather than read about it on the net written by some stranger with unknown motive and form an opinion based on that write up.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

and, now, we're off to the races with yet another 'which sounds better' discussion!

The best sounding system will be ...the best sounding system. That's all. There is no all CD players sound better than all computer-based system or all PC systems sound better than CDPs.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. None of us, whatever our personal priorities and day-to-day choices, have said, "Throw away the CD player!"

Would it be fair, in fact, to extract the following from the conversation...

Are CD Player still relevant?

Yes.

hyeah:


~

 

[hemantwaghe]

Just a little bit google searchoffers a good numbers . Unfortunately people do not check facts .

Check this article from Billboard - music business authority

Digital Music Sales Decrease For First Time in 2013 | Billboard

Quote

Overall, album sales suffered an 8.4% decline, dipping to 289.4 million units from nearly 316 million units in 2012. The CD declined 14.5% to 165.4 million units, down from 193.4 million in the prior year, while vinyl continued its ascension rising to 6 million units from the 4.55 million the format tallied in 2012. That means vinyl is now 2% of album sales in the U.S; digital albums comprise 40.6% and the CD is 57.2% and cassettes and DVDs 0.2%.



So those who say there is BIG RESERGENCE in vinyl nothe that in 2013 vinyl is still less than 2% of market where CD's are still 57.2% - so CD's outsell vinyl by appx 30 to 1.


In India figures may be croocked as new vinyl releses stopped for last 2 years , but now a lot of movies do not bother to release a commercial CD...

But US numbers proves that CD's are still relevant..

 

[sidvee]

I think this is more of an individual preference rather than a general one. For instance I have about 750cd's, but I have moved entirely to Flac & wav. However it was not a sudden move, I experimented for over 6 months, and finally with the addition of my ayon skylla dac, and m2tech 3 chassis usb/ spdif converter, I had beaten cd playback sound not from any cd player, but from the ayon cd2s, which is a $6500 player. But why did I move to computer audio in the first place? simple, convenience. I have all my 750 cd's plus 100's of other downloads at my fingertips, and in much better Sq. I understand what some have stated that they don't listen to a whole album because of this, but I never listened to a whole cd in the first place. In fact on some of my blue note jazz cd's I only liked 1 track, so imagine every time I wanted to listen to that track, the amount of unecessary motion involved with a cdplayer, so I stopped listening to that track. Now with a playlist at my disposal with Jriver, I am listening to all my preferred music. Another telling, non- scientific way of measuring Sq of comp. audio over cd players is that almost all exhibitors at audio shows are using comp. audio as their source, even mega buck components. That and vinyl - but that is ot and belongs to a different discussion.
Cheers,
Sid

 

[reignofchaos]

I think this is more of an individual preference rather than a general one. For instance I have about 750cd's, but I have moved entirely to Flac & wav. However it was not a sudden move, I experimented for over 6 months, and finally with the addition of my ayon skylla dac, and m2tech 3 chassis usb/ spdif converter, I had beaten cd playback sound not from any cd player, but from the ayon cd2s, which is a $6500 player. But why did I move to computer audio in the first place? simple, convenience. I have all my 750 cd's plus 100's of other downloads at my fingertips, and in much better Sq. I understand what some have stated that they don't listen to a whole album because of this, but I never listened to a whole cd in the first place. In fact on some of my blue note jazz cd's I only liked 1 track, so imagine every time I wanted to listen to that track, the amount of unecessary motion involved with a cdplayer, so I stopped listening to that track. Now with a playlist at my disposal with Jriver, I am listening to all my preferred music. Another telling, non- scientific way of measuring Sq of comp. audio over cd players is that almost all exhibitors at audio shows are using comp. audio as their source, even mega buck components. That and vinyl - but that is ot and belongs to a different discussion.
Cheers,
Sid

Interesting post - especially regarding the audio show bit. It definitely is true that most exhibitors have dumped cd transports in favor of computer transports. I do not know the reasons for the same.

However one thing I do know is that the ayon CD transport in the cd1 and cd2 from stream unlimited is far from the best out there. With that, my AMR DAC sounded exactly like the ayon's analog output so I was basically hearing just the transport. Computer USB async input sounded much better than the ayon feeding it via coax. Exactly for this reason, I sold the ayon and got the acoustic portrait CD pro2 transport which is close to state of the art in CD playback and is much much better than the ayon. To match this, the computer absolutely requires a linear power supply. With a switching power supply, it is a no contest. There is way too much noise that can be heard in a comparison.