Are FS only for larger space & BS for smaller?

[captrajesh]

BTW, I've somehow missed to post my experience with a range of BS & FS speakers in my 12'/13' x 18' living / listening room. I was looking to replace my 3 way 4 driver FS speakers with BS speakers due to placement issues. Moving them 2' away from rear wall towards the listening position to reduce boominess also involved shifting of two single seater sofas each time I got to listen to my music was quite a chore and also irksome to the better half.

One of our forum members was selling his Monitor Audio (BR1 or BR2 not sure) I went to his place & listened in his 10' x 11' drawing room. It sounded very bright and I could hear a lot of room reflections of the HF content and the bass was just fine. I wanted to listen to them in my place and he was kind enough to agree and accompanied me.

When I played it in my above mentioned living room, the room reflections of HF content were totally absent but the bass was totally missing even though I placed less than 1' from rear wall.

I later went on to buy Accoustic Portrait bookshelf speakers, which at 9.5" x 11" x 19" are rather large for bookshelf speakers. I was surprised that they match the FS speakers on LF content note to note. I'd like to add that owing to it's 6.25" PP cone midbass driver, the speed and tightness of bass in LF content is much better than the FS, which has 12" Paper cone driver.

The downside for me is, my objective of replacing my FS speakers to avoid pulling them 3' into the hall to tame the bass remains unfulfilled.

 

[ajay124]

Sorry for the OT.

Dr. Bass,
As Ajay pointed out, you heard the Creek Evo amp+CDP. I heard them too, and do not at all agree with Ajay that the lower priced EVO was a better value for money. If I have to put my observations simply, I'd say - lack of refinement (lack of smoothness, lack of tonal balance). OTOH, the Destiny (which you have not heard, and which is their top integrated) was much more refined, tonally more balanced, clean and fast amp. Sorry Ajay, I could not agree with your views at all. But then everybody has their own yardstick of judgement. All opinions are valuable in some way. I never heard the Creek Classic which is placed between the EVO and the Destiny. BTW, I remember dinyaar too expressed (perhaps in my amp thread) that the Creek Destiny is a very reasonable amp.

Regards.

@asit
Some clarification with the OP's permission.During my brief audition the Creek amps (Evolution or Destiny) did not really appeal to me.I would not buy one or even recommend it to anyone.I may be wrong as I had very little experience then and only a little more now.By value for money I meant that in the sub 50K range the Creek Evolution series can be an alternative to similarly priced Nad,Marantz,Rotel etc.But in the 100K+ range there are many amps which one can consider:
Arcam FMJ A38
Primare I32
Krell 300 si
Quad 99/909
Bryston 100 SST
Musical Fidelity M6i

 

[askii2]

This has been a great thread. Thanks everyone for your views, feedback, suggestions.

I have Yamaha NS 7390 floorstanders in my 23'x11' living room. These are placed about 3' from backwall. One speaker is placed 2' from a side wall and the other about 4' from the opposite wall. I do feel that at this size of my room the floorstanders produce and overwhelming bass. Opening windows opposite to the speakers seems to make it manageable. It's controlled well at the sweet spot but is quite prominent in the sophas located around the periphery of this room.

I tried this experiment - these speakers are connected to an AVR. I set the AVR's speaker size to small and cross-over to 100Hz and then switched off sub-woofer. I could definitely hear some of the bass frequencies being cut-off, but wasn't bad at all. An added benefit was I could raise the volume level a bit and treble louder and clearer. My conclusion is even if BS don't go down to sub-100Hz levels, it is well-offset by the clarity of higher frequencies.

I have been thinking of replacing my old floorstanders. I think the case to go for BS instead of FS is just too strong.

 

[TaureanBull]

I have been thinking of replacing my old floorstanders. I think the case to go for BS instead of FS is just too strong.

Wonderful experiment. Thanks for sharing with all of us.

So you want to upgrade by downgrading?

 

[sud98]

I tried this experiment - these speakers are connected to an AVR. I set the AVR's speaker size to small and cross-over to 100Hz and then switched off sub-woofer. I could definitely hear some of the bass frequencies being cut-off, but wasn't bad at all. An added benefit was I could raise the volume level a bit and treble louder and clearer. My conclusion is even if BS don't go down to sub-100Hz levels, it is well-offset by the clarity of higher frequencies.

I have been thinking of replacing my old floorstanders. I think the case to go for BS instead of FS is just too strong.

I think you are missing significant portion of the music if you are limiting it to 100 hz. If you plan to add a sub for notes below 100Hz, do note that integrating a sub would be far more difficult and expensive (unless its DIY).

 

[askii2]

I limited frequencies to 100Hz only as an experiment. My plan is to integrate BS with sub-woofer with cross-over set to around 100Hz.

I do understand that integrating sub-woofer is difficult. The integration will be excellent only at the sweet-spot, it'll vary at other positions through the room. But it'll be cheaper than buying FS.

For now I have set my FS as well as sub-woofer with cross-over at 150Hz in such a way that whether I let frequencies under 150 routed through FS or sub-woofer, I get about the same type of sound.

I think you are missing significant portion of the music if you are limiting it to 100 hz. If you plan to add a sub for notes below 100Hz, do note that integrating a sub would be far more difficult and expensive (unless its DIY).

 

[himadri]

Hi
Though I haven't used a bookshelf, but was on the verge of getting the Usher BE718 (bookshelf) but ended up with Mini Dancer1 (which is a floorstanding BE718 i.e.same 2 way drivers, but greater bass response due to the larger cabinet).
In my opinion, for a smallish room, the main issue is the bass-
My earlier Deftech 7004 had multiple drivers and internal subwoofer amplifier with manual bass level control to suit the room , but I was never able to obtain an even frequency balance in my smallish 12x14 room.
The 2 way Usher Mini Dancer1 which replaced the Deftechs ,has greater integration between the drivers and better overall frequency balance but I had to struggle a lot in speaker placement and room damping to avoid the bass boom.
I am sure the bookshelf Be718 would have been easier to place due to its lower bass output.
So if you want better bass in a smallish room - get a floor stander but handle the room or equalize the response , otherwise go for BS.
Cheers
Himadri

 

[hemant0285]

Can anyone share thier experience//review between
Mordaunt Short Aviano-2 Bookshelves
vs.
Wharfedales 9.5 s......
Which is better...both are in d similar price range.

 

[captrajesh]

A well made bookshelf from most speaker makers would go as low as 45hz. If a sub needs to be integrated into the setup, it should be tweaked to kick in between 60 to 80 Hz. Beyond that, LF becomes more directional IMO

 

[hemant0285]

A well made bookshelf from most speaker makers would go as low as 45hz. If a sub needs to be integrated into the setup, it should be tweaked to kick in between 60 to 80 Hz. Beyond that, LF becomes more directional IMO

Does tat mean MS-Avianos would be better than Whafr-9.5

 

[askii2]

Some more experiments -

I turned off sub-woofer and set the cross over frequency to various levels available in my AVR - 50Hz, 80Hz, 100Hz, 150Hz and 180Hz. This makes the AVR cross over work like a low frequency cut-off.

100Hz, 150Hz and 180 Hz: These result in important frequencies for drums and bass-guitar to be skipped. Not acceptable for me. Room's reflections are not heard.

80Hz: This is ok sound. Some of the required low frequencies are present. Not bad. Room reflections start being audible in this range.

50Hz: My FS speakers are rated only a little lower than this so this cut-off doesn't make much of a difference. Low frequencies are heard, but room's reflections and reverberation contributes too much.

To work around this behavior I then switched on sub-woofer, set cross-over to 100Hz and turned-down the sub-woofer volume by a small amount. While room's reflections are present and heard, they are acceptable.

 

[haisaikat]

Does tat mean MS-Avianos would be better than Whafr-9.5

At least Avianos are better than the Wharf 10x and the Polk RTIs to my ears.

 

[Bond247]

Would I be able to get by with BS for a living room almost 500 sq ft? or there is no way that's going to happen and FS is the way to go in such a scenario?

Thanks for your help....

 

[askii2]

Would I be able to get by with BS for a living room almost 500 sq ft? or there is no way that's going to happen and FS is the way to go in such a scenario?

Thanks for your help....

500sq ft is probably 20'x25'. You'll definitely need FS. The speakers(and amp) should be capable of at least 100W per speaker(channel).
Bookshelves will be good if you sit close to them, say 8' away. Or else they'll be too distant. BS in any case have lower bass capabilities, so you may not be able to enjoy.

 

[Bond247]

500sq ft is probably 20'x25'. You'll definitely need FS. The speakers(and amp) should be capable of at least 100W per speaker(channel).
Bookshelves will be good if you sit close to them, say 8' away. Or else they'll be too distant. BS in any case have lower bass capabilities, so you may not be able to enjoy.

Thanks a lot.
I was actually interested in the Yamaha Rx v667, it has 90w/channel, will that be insufficient or will I be able to get by with it?

Thanks

 

[GeorgeO]

I think this thread about book shelf Vs floor stander is over simplified. There is a product called a stand mounted monitor, which performs very well as well, A bookshelf is not a stand mounted monitor-it's a much smaller speaker, and for smaller areas. A good stand mounted monitor will perform very well in most situations. It also takes up less space. I have both a floor stander and multiple stand mounted speakers, and cannot say that the tower is better or goes down lower.

 

[askii2]

Thanks a lot.
I was actually interested in the Yamaha Rx v667, it has 90w/channel, will that be insufficient or will I be able to get by with it?

Thanks

90W per channel should be good enough.

If you are buying RXV667. You may also considering purchasing 2 good standmounts (see below) 1 good center, 2 or more surrounds and a sub woofer. That way sub-woofer can take care of lower frequencies and you can get much better standmounts in the same cost as floorstanders. I am assuming you'll have a budge of around Rs. 30000 to Rs. 60000 for a pair of standmounts or floorstanders.

I think this thread about book shelf Vs floor stander is over simplified. There is a product called a stand mounted monitor, which performs very well as well, A bookshelf is not a stand mounted monitor-it's a much smaller speaker, and for smaller areas. A good stand mounted monitor will perform very well in most situations. It also takes up less space. I have both a floor stander and multiple stand mounted speakers, and cannot say that the tower is better or goes down lower.

Bookshelves and standmounts have been mixed too many times. Good you reminded us of this. The BS I have mentioned is in fact standmounts. Yes, they are quite large and have to be mounted on good solid stands and at least 2' space has to be kept free around the speakers. Just keeping them in a bookshelf will not work.