I am slightly embarrassed to answer that, but in my defence many were re mastered ones and the others picked up without knowing I had a copy. Need to get rid of some..
Are you a music lover or an audiophile?
- Thread starter Fiftyfifty
- Start date
The only listenable copy of Kind of Blue I own is a Columbia Legacy LP released in 2015 by Sony Music Entertainment. Rest (CD, SACD, hires) are noisy.
Oh, I have no doubt the vinyl sounds better. Especially as the original recording is analogue. But the last LP I bought was in 1990, just before I switched to CD.
Nearly 30 years and many silver discs later, going back to records is a daunting prospect. And I have no idea what’s analogue and what’s digital in the vinyl world, as the guy points out below.
Just to clarify so that this discussion doesn't go into a tangent about digital versus analog
--- I'm not saying that this particular album sounded good because it is on vinyl.And for vinyl guys who go on and on about analog pressings, first pressings, remasters, it is a fact of life now that many of our beloved albums may have been recorded on analog tapes but reissues/remasters are first cleaned up and edited and mastered in the digital domain, then finally pressed into vinyl medium. This does not necessarily make them inferior. Digital techniques have advanced to such a state that the final product is often superior to those done in purely analog medium. Digital offers a much richer palette of tools for engineers. <Mini rant over>.
To come to the original subject of this thread, it's music first for me but that doesn't mean I am willing to settle for lousy recordings. A better reproduction chain and better recording quality invariably enhances the quantum of musical enjoyment despite knowing full well that many aspects of stereo imaging are nothing but studio tricks that we will never ever hear in a live performance.
Yep, I’m definitely hanging out with the wrong crowd! Thanks for clearing that up. It’s been one of the main reasons why I’ve stayed away from vinyl for so long.
To your second point regarding recording quality:
There’s a similar sentiment echoed by Jason of Stereophile in the video I posted earlier. He’s interested in hearing every little detail picked up the microphones during the recording process. For him, the actual live event may not even provide the same level of musical satisfaction.
For me, the reverse is true. The best sound I’ve ever heard on this planet is at the Village Vanguard in New York. I’m sure the weird shape of the room has a lot to do with it, but the acoustics are beyond brilliant.
I usually land up a half hour before the set begins and grab a table about 8-10’ from stage center. When the music is in full flow, it’s as if one is immersed in a swimming pool of gorgeous sound. You can hear each individual note, but with your eyes closed, you’ll be hard pressed to place the musicians on stage. A completely different experience from the typical high resolution audiophile setup.
Saying that one approach is better than the other is nonsense, of course. In the end, what’s most important is that we both enjoy Kind of Blue
Iam presently sailing on my boat, and listening to some edifier 2.1 computer speaker system. And still enjoy it. When I visit my parents place, I still listen to the Harman kardon sound sticks. And it still puts a smile on my face. So music first for me any day. The rest of the rig in my signature really doesn't matter. It is just another toys make boys happy thing
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IME TT have never been a plug and play device. To get the best from your analogue domain means you have to spend countless hours researching, setup and tweak and finally enjoy what you get out of them. There is no point in comparing which is better - analogue or digital. Each have their own sets of issues and challenges and the trick is to live with it and enjoy music.
square_wave
Well-Known Member
In the beginning everyone is just a music lover. Some of these music lovers eventually turn into audiophiles. So, the audiophile population is a subset of the music lover demographic. There is however a sizeable percentage within the audiophile population who turn into hardcore hardware lovers and sound testers. Some remain in that mind space all their life while for many others, it is a phase and they eventually assemble a system that feeds their love for music and the focus again shifts back to music.
Yet, when one is on the hunt for new gear, the testing and scientist mode is back in a jiffy.. and it is good fun.
Yet, when one is on the hunt for new gear, the testing and scientist mode is back in a jiffy.. and it is good fun.
Quite a revelation this video! I must have picked up all the lousy pressings. These Americans!!!Both Dazoy and Arj are correct in asserting that the Beatles recordings are pretty good quality; both mono, and later, stereo.
But only an audiophile would spend a lifetime agonizing over which particular pressing sounded the best
D
Deleted member 15865
Guest
I like to see this philosophically, as a ‘Joy vs Excellence’ duality. While Excellence is something we can put in efforts and strive for, Joy results from immersion and letting go with the flow.
When it comes to music vs sound for us listeners the music is a given, it has been already played (by the artist) and recorded (by the studio), we cannot do anything to improve it - all we can do is immerse in it and let go with the flow - in essence, en’joy’ it.
But when it comes to the sound, a lot is in our hands. We can learn, experiment, put in money and effort to improve the sound, we can strive for excellence in sound reproduction. And so we do. Most of us have been brought up in an environment (educational and social both) where ‘excelling’ is rated much above ‘enjoying’. We have been conditioned to base our self-esteem on the levels of excellence we achieve. We feel good when we excel! And it has become a never ending striving for us. True, there’s a joyful moment (or day) when we take our sound a notch higher by some addition/upgrading/optimisation. We can’t wait till others listen to it and provide us feedback (rather, appreciate the improvement). But we all know how short lived the joy of success is, here as everywhere else.
Most of us begin our audio odyssey with the music. We get attracted to genres/artists/songs and go after the joy of listening to the music we like. We are the least self-conscious then. We immerse ourselves into the music and flow with it - without second thought to the sound quality. But at some stage (usually when we can start affording it) we get drawn to the equipment. We suddenly realise its within our control! By our intelligence, effort and resources we can improve the quality of the sound in our system. And then begins our ceaseless striving. And the focus of our audio odyssey shifts from music to sound - gradually but surely. And the inner motive shifts from joy to excellence.
And then there are times of self-realisation like these when we wonder what has become of our journey? Or for the more philosophical ones, what has become of our selves!
While I am writing this, I find myself too, over the past one year or so, undergoing a similar shift. In the last three to four months I haven’t heard a single album end to end from my rich collection of CDs. And I have spent hours at a stretch on improving the sound of my system - a sound mind you, I was perfectly happy with even a year ago! No doubt the sound quality of my system has gone up significantly since then, but my joy of listening to music has gone away from me. I can very well put it down to my active participation in the forum and listening to other audiophiles’ systems. But then those are only external triggers. The choice has to be in my hands whether I let myself get dragged into the race for excellence, or get back to exploring and enjoying the music.
Can I make this reversal? The question isn’t limited to music, but life itself. And I believe if one wishes, one can. And I too can. It might take getting the locus of control back from the world to oneself. And that’s not such a bad thing!
P.s. There may be exceptions to the above - especially some electronic/sound engineering pros/hobbyists. For them ‘sound’ itself can be the purpose of listening to music and an endless source of joy. But I think most of us don’t belong to that category. I don’t.
When it comes to music vs sound for us listeners the music is a given, it has been already played (by the artist) and recorded (by the studio), we cannot do anything to improve it - all we can do is immerse in it and let go with the flow - in essence, en’joy’ it.
But when it comes to the sound, a lot is in our hands. We can learn, experiment, put in money and effort to improve the sound, we can strive for excellence in sound reproduction. And so we do. Most of us have been brought up in an environment (educational and social both) where ‘excelling’ is rated much above ‘enjoying’. We have been conditioned to base our self-esteem on the levels of excellence we achieve. We feel good when we excel! And it has become a never ending striving for us. True, there’s a joyful moment (or day) when we take our sound a notch higher by some addition/upgrading/optimisation. We can’t wait till others listen to it and provide us feedback (rather, appreciate the improvement). But we all know how short lived the joy of success is, here as everywhere else.
Most of us begin our audio odyssey with the music. We get attracted to genres/artists/songs and go after the joy of listening to the music we like. We are the least self-conscious then. We immerse ourselves into the music and flow with it - without second thought to the sound quality. But at some stage (usually when we can start affording it) we get drawn to the equipment. We suddenly realise its within our control! By our intelligence, effort and resources we can improve the quality of the sound in our system. And then begins our ceaseless striving. And the focus of our audio odyssey shifts from music to sound - gradually but surely. And the inner motive shifts from joy to excellence.
And then there are times of self-realisation like these when we wonder what has become of our journey? Or for the more philosophical ones, what has become of our selves!
While I am writing this, I find myself too, over the past one year or so, undergoing a similar shift. In the last three to four months I haven’t heard a single album end to end from my rich collection of CDs. And I have spent hours at a stretch on improving the sound of my system - a sound mind you, I was perfectly happy with even a year ago! No doubt the sound quality of my system has gone up significantly since then, but my joy of listening to music has gone away from me. I can very well put it down to my active participation in the forum and listening to other audiophiles’ systems. But then those are only external triggers. The choice has to be in my hands whether I let myself get dragged into the race for excellence, or get back to exploring and enjoying the music.
Can I make this reversal? The question isn’t limited to music, but life itself. And I believe if one wishes, one can. And I too can. It might take getting the locus of control back from the world to oneself. And that’s not such a bad thing!
P.s. There may be exceptions to the above - especially some electronic/sound engineering pros/hobbyists. For them ‘sound’ itself can be the purpose of listening to music and an endless source of joy. But I think most of us don’t belong to that category. I don’t.
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An excellent analysis! A joy to read!
D
Deleted member 15865
Guest
That’s an eye-opening analogy! There are temples we visit to marvel at their architecture (that’s a value in itself) and don’t even recollect which idols were worshipped there. And then there’s communion we seek in the humble prayer room of ours.
D
Deleted member 15865
Guest
Wow! That musician’s perspective (and empathising with it) adds another dimension to the discussion.
But then a counter could be to think of what the sound recordist (or even music arranger) might have to say? Say the arranger/recordist of Pink Floyd or AR Rahman. There’s a chance he’d feel the listener needs equipment of a certain minimum fidelity to experience completely what he has striven hard to package in. I am sure Rahman’s success, though he is a top tier composer, was also due to the Dolby systems in cinema halls and clearer FM transmission from the late 90s.
D
Deleted member 15865
Guest
I like to see this philosophically, as a ‘Joy vs Excellence’ duality. While Excellence is something we can put in efforts and strive for, Joy results from immersion and letting go with the flow.
When it comes to music vs sound for us listeners the music is a given, it has been already played (by the artist) and recorded (by the studio), we cannot do anything to improve it - all we can do is immerse in it and let go with the flow - in essence, en’joy’ it.
But when it comes to the sound, a lot is in our hands. We can learn, experiment, put in money and effort to improve the sound, we can strive for excellence in sound reproduction. And so we do. Most of us have been brought up in an environment (educational and social both) where ‘excelling’ is rated much above ‘enjoying’. We have been conditioned to base our self-esteem on the levels of excellence we achieve. We feel good when we excel! And it has become a never ending striving for us. True, there’s a joyful moment (or day) when we take our sound a notch higher by some addition/upgrading/optimisation. We can’t wait till others listen to it and provide us feedback (rather, appreciate the improvement). But we all know how short lived the joy of success is, here as everywhere else.
Most of us begin our audio odyssey with the music. We get attracted to genres/artists/songs and go after the joy of listening to the music we like. We are the least self-conscious then. We immerse ourselves into the music and flow with it - without second thought to the sound quality. But at some stage (usually when we can start affording it) we get drawn to the equipment. We suddenly realise its within our control! By our intelligence, effort and resources we can improve the quality of the sound in our system. And then begins our ceaseless striving. And the focus of our audio odyssey shifts from music to sound - gradually but surely. And the inner motive shifts from joy to excellence.
And then there are times of self-realisation like these when we wonder what has become of our journey? Or for the more philosophical ones, what has become of our selves!
While I am writing this, I find myself too, over the past one year or so, undergoing a similar shift. In the last three to four months I haven’t heard a single album end to end from my rich collection of CDs. And I have spent hours at a stretch on improving the sound of my system - a sound mind you, I was perfectly happy with even a year ago! No doubt the sound quality of my system has gone up significantly since then, but my joy of listening to music has gone away from me. I can very well put it down to my active participation in the forum and listening to other audiophiles’ systems. But then those are only external triggers. The choice has to be in my hands whether I let myself get dragged into the race for excellence, or get back to exploring and enjoying the music.
Can I make this reversal? The question isn’t limited to music, but life itself. And I believe if one wishes, one can. And I too can. It might take getting the locus of control back from the world to oneself. And that’s not such a bad thing!
P.s. There may be exceptions to the above - especially some electronic/sound engineering pros/hobbyists. For them ‘sound’ itself can be the purpose of listening to music and an endless source of joy. But I think most of us don’t belong to that category. I don’t.
I want to explain a distinction that’d clarify my post above further.
What I have written up there assumes an audiophile is one who keeps seeking better and better sound. It is not the absolute fidelity of your system, but this ‘seeking’ that for me defines the audiophile. So, technically, a financially well-endowed music lover may buy an extremely resolving and great sounding system for say 50 lacs. He surely values good sound and wants to buy the best system he can afford to get great sound (as most music lovers would). But having bought it, he doesn’t care about making it sound better, in fact, he might even forget the specific equipment models he bought. Instead he focuses on enjoying his favourite music through the sound that the system can reproduce for him. Would you call him an audiophile? I won’t. He is no different from one of my maternal uncles who could afford a Panasonic two-in-one at best back in the 80s and kept keenly enjoying his music on it till he passed away few years ago. Both bought what they could best afford and then focused on the music.
So to summarise, it’s not the absolute quality of the sound of their system that defines audiophiles, but their continuous striving for excellence in the sound by researching, experimenting, fine tuning, upgrading, revamping et al. And when you do that, it is quite likely to get you away from enjoying the music - unless you awarefully compartmentalise the two. And that’s tough.
Now i am beginning to understand that as we go more into high end and more pricey equipmemt, it becomes more about luxury and exquisiteness than actual sound quality, like ultra high end watches and cars and so many industries work. Problem lies in the fact that this industry is based on something we cannot see but only feel. Feelings are something that are never absolute and very person to person, leading to so many different views and opinions, and above that they even depend heavily on our state of mind and even time of day. In this process and we easily get brainwashed leading to big holes in our pockets.
You’re absolutely right. This conditioning in us to keep looking and perfecting what we have has led to widespread restlessness. This has sucked the joy out of living and enjoying what we have and the present.
A beautiful, well-constructed speaker with class-leading soundstage, imaging and bass that is fast, deep, and precise.