Attn: Bluray Movies - Buy/Sell/Trade/Rent'-Got Deleted

[KonfuSed]

One of our rules clearly states that, 'You are not allowed to conduct any discussion whatsoever soliciting, exchange or sharing or renting using torrents/seeding, etc of illegal and/or copyright material of any nature including ebooks, music, movies, software programes, etc.'.

No one has talked about any torrent/seeding etc in that thread. All the discussions were about the legally owned copies of the works. So even this rule of HFV doesn't actually deter anyone from exchanging a legally owned work with another one for a temporary amount of time.

Also Indian copyright law suggests followings about copyright infringement ->

Which are the common copyright infringements?

The following are some of the commonly known acts involving infringement of copyright:

1.Making infringing copies for sale or hire or selling or letting them for hire;
2.Permitting any place for the performance of works in public where such performance constitutes infringement of copyright;
3.Distributing infringing copies for the purpose of trade or to such an extent so as to affect prejudicially the interest of the owner of copyright ;
4.Public exhibition of infringing copies by way of trade; and
5.Importation of infringing copies into India.

So it's about re-creating a duplicate work of the original work and then letting that to be hired is what against the law. It doesn't say that exchanging original copies is an offense. Someone who have better knowledge can correct me if I'm wrong as my knowledge is very limited regarding these laws.

You are not allowed to solicit, rent, exchange or share copyrighted material. The copyright laws are quite stringent and we certainly do not want to break any laws.

Cheers

I think there is cloud of confusion between what the law is exactly stating and what is being comprehended. If renting/hiring is illegal then there wouldn't have been companies like Bigflix/70mm etc in the market.

 

[svenkateshsmart]

Hi,

It is personal to Vinay sir, but here people just exchange/share things without any commercial motives. I am sure there is no infringment on that part.

Please see Section 51 and 52 of the Indian Copyright Act 1957, which discusses what is infringment and what is not. Gifting and sharing in good faith has a thin line of difference. If you are too generous, you can let the person have it for eternity or else let the person use it and return the same at his convenience.

@Konfused, you are right about exchanging

Regarding the latter, companies like bigflix and the like have obtained licenses at some cost for lending and all their discs are labelled with the notation stating the same.

Cheers!

 

[Sujit]

The law is very clear. One must not duplicate or reproduce a version/portion or the entire content of a copyrighted movie in any way and rent/distribute it in any fashion/medium.

NO one can prevent you from selling/gifting your ORIGINAL USED/UNUSED DVD's to/with anyone else - your copy of the original only, mind you - not copies. Rental/public broadcast is again prohibited without prior written approval.

You can sell/ give away your original DVD's (as is) just like you can anything else you've legally purchased/possess including Books (as published) etc. The law only prevents you from making and distributing copies of the original .


Amazon and eBay is full of used equipment/books/records (LPs) etc FOR SALE- No body can and has objected till date!

The term 'RENT' is the only thing objectionable in the erstwhile thread.

I do think the forum can use the services of a legal counsel. It will definitely help in the long run

 

[srinisundar]

If idlebrain has not published it, we could have gone crazy with creating more threads on searching for same...

He has published only the PM contents and not the copyright notice which we all are expecting so far from your end.

Hope we will have a chance to see that too.... to keep ourself update about that notice...

Please note that one month back, FBI has given closure notice to one of the famous torrent site and it is still flying in air with pride and released the newest blockbuster movie within release of 2 days this week... We have not done anything to that fault.

At the outset, Idlebrain, please do not publish PMs without thinking carefully. Particularly those that have issues with infringements and copyright acts.

Folks, please understand that what we discuss here is in the public eye. We are constantly tagged by search engines that give out information about what we write here. Though most of what we write here is OK, there are some issues that are not meant to be done.

One of our rules clearly states that, 'You are not allowed to conduct any discussion whatsoever soliciting, exchange or sharing or renting using torrents/seeding, etc of illegal and/or copyright material of any nature including ebooks, music, movies, software programes, etc.'.

You are not allowed to solicit, rent, exchange or share copyrighted material. The copyright laws are quite stringent and we certainly do not want to break any laws.

Cheers

 

[venkatcr]

Gentlemen, we could go on for days discussing the rights and wrongs. HFV does not want to get into any issues.

Whatever you need to discuss please do by directly contacting each other. As far as HFV is concerned, we will abide by the rules.

Cheers

 

[sud98]

If the worry is about buying/selling/renting/sharing of copyrighted materials, then we need to modify the for sale by owner section and stop a lot of the sales being made there. We should have only a for sale by dealer as none of us have distribution rights in the truest sense.

 

[srinisundar]

We are only an resellers.... Whether seller in ebay should hold distribution/reseller licence??? Not necessary...

Few dealers could not survive here due to their selling style..

If the worry is about buying/selling/renting/sharing of copyrighted materials, then we need to modify the for sale by owner section and stop a lot of the sales being made there. We should have only a for sale by dealer as none of us have distribution rights in the truest sense.

 

[idlebrain]

At the outset, Idlebrain, please do not publish PMs without thinking carefully. Particularly those that have issues with infringements and copyright acts.
Cheers

Venkat Sir, I don't mean to raise any stir here.
When I logged in, saw couple of PMs about the thread.Immediately I sent a message to Admin and to you.
As thread disappeared abruptly without a message or notice,I felt responsible to provide ALL the information in hand to the members.At that time I only worried about people's time.If I didn't done that so many people waste their time finding it and obviously all these questions will be raised by one or another.

 

[KonfuSed]

Just for information. Here is what the law says,

51. When copyright infringed. -Copyright in a work shall be deemed to be infringed-
(a) when any person, without a licence granted by the owner of the copyright or the Registrar of
Copyrights under this Act or in contravention of the conditions of a licence so granted or of any
condition imposed by a competent authority under this Act-
(i) does anything, the exclusive right to do which is by this Act conferred upon the owner of the
copyright, or
(ii)101 permits for profit any place to be used for the communication of the work to the public where
such communication constitutes an infringement of the copyright in the work, unless he was not
aware and had no reasonable ground for believing that such communication to the public would be
an infringement of copyright; or
(b) when any person-
(i) makes for sale or hire, or sells or lets for hire, or by way of trade displays or offers for sale or hire,
or
(ii) distributes either for the purpose of trade or to such an extent as to affect prejudicially the owner
of the copyright, or
(iii) by way of trade exhibits in public, or
(iv) imports 102***** into India, any infringing copies of the work
103Provided that nothing in sub-clause (iv) shall apply to the import of one copy of any work for the
private and domestic use of the importer.
Explanation.- For the purposes of this section, the reproduction of a literary, dramatic, musical or
artistic work in the form of a cinematograph film shall be deemed to be an "infringing copy".

So, according to the law it's an offense to reproduce a copy as that copy is an "infringing copy" and the above law is talking about "infringing copy". But when you buy legally then you got a limited license for usage.

In section 52, following is stated,

52. Certain acts not to be infringement of copyright. -(1) The following acts shall not constitute
an infringement of copyright, namely:
(a) a fair dealing with a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work 104[not being a computer
programme] for the purposes of-
(i) 105private use, including research;
(ii) criticism or review, whether of that work or of any other work; "

So it seems that it;s ok for private use to deal a not "infringing work" i.e. original copy. But can someone please explain this as I'm not too sure.

 

[idlebrain]

Unnecessary.

 

[Sujit]

India introduces major copyright reforms bill... the world is raving about it!

Michael Geist - India Introduces Major Copyright Reform Bill


The bill itself...

http://prsindia.org/uploads/media/Copyright Act/Copyright Bill 2010.pdf

 

[venkatcr]

If the worry is about buying/selling/renting/sharing of copyrighted materials, then we need to modify the for sale by owner section and stop a lot of the sales being made there. We should have only a for sale by dealer as none of us have distribution rights in the truest sense.

This is an incorrect and meaningless comparison. We are not talking about distribution rights. You have an item, you are the owner, and you can sell that item. There is no ambiguity there.

When you own a CD or DVD, remember the copyright of the contents rests with someone else. You only have rights to view or use the contents for your OWN use in your house. If you are selling or gifting the CD/DVD, you are transferring this right to the new owner of the media. Again there is no ambiguity as the rights are with only one person.

Anything else you do by way of sharing, renting, or anything other activity where the transfer of the rights to use of the media is not clear would be infringing on the rights that are given to you by the owner of the media's content.

We could argue this endlessly. For example one can ask if my wife sees the movie is it infringing on the copyright? If I take the DVD to a hotel and see the movie there, am I infringing on my rights?

As I said, these are endless arguments that we do not want to get into.

As far as HFV is concerned you can buy, sell, gift, or trade any equipment or software where the transfer of ownership is very clear.

Whatever else you want to do, cannot be done here. It is as simple as that.

Cheers

 

[venkatcr]

In my post no 20 above, in reply to VenkateshSmart, I made a small error. The sentence should read

'When you are talking about buying, selling, renting and trading material, you are in a different realm altogether where some of the activities does conflict with copyright act"

I have corrected the post.

I hope all confusion is now clear.

Cheers

 

[sanjay0864]

The term 'Distributing' when used in regard to software, does not refer to the physical exchange of the media. What it refers to is the contents of the media. Simply put, you can exchange, gift and or sell the physical media on which the software resides. What you cannot do, is rip the software form the media and 'distribute' that. Absolutely, no law in any country, prohibits the exchanging, gifting or selling of softwares on any media, be it CDs, DVDs, BDs etc. etc. etc. OFcourse do keep in mind, that in the case you have copied the software from the physical media for your own backup or in the case of computer software, you have installed the software on your computer, then legally you are required to uninstall and or remove all such copies of the software before exchanging, gifting or selling the physical media that holds the software.

 

[suri]

Absolutely, no law in any country, prohibits the exchanging, gifting or selling of softwares on any media, be it CDs, DVDs, BDs etc. etc. etc.

let us be in the clear about this -


if i have a (legally) purchased blu-ray title - say - "LOTR"

- i have thirty (so-called) friends -

- i send my disc/discs - which were legally purchased - to all thirty of them -

- and charge each of them Rs. 45 INR - which they send me in a manila envelope along with the disc -

- am i doing the right thing?

BTW - i do not see anything wrong in the way that Vinay (a member of our forum) has "gifted" his discs.

 

[KonfuSed]

- and charge each of them Rs. 45 INR - which they send me in a manila envelope along with the disc -
- am i doing the right thing?.

Just to make it clear "Nobody" is asking for money here. So the fundamentals of your argument is based on wrong assumption and hence your argument actually doesn't add much to this thread. I would say if you remove that monetary part and then ask the question then I would say nothing is wrong, we all do it(i.e. share and be generous) most of the time for our friends.

Anyway, I don't want to debate any more on this as Venkat has made it clear about the rules of HFV and we should follow the rules as long as we are here.

 

[deba]

But how can circulation of CDs and DVDs between friends and forum members without any financial gain infringe copyright laws?
Kindly explain and refer the Section of the Copyright law which prohibit such circulation in good faith.
Thanks.

 

[svenkateshsmart]

Hi Sanjay, Deba, Konfused, et al,

I am with you on this, but let us think from the other perspective. HFV is still at its growing stage and has not grown up to a level where it can fight against "giants" regardless of who is right or wrong nor has enough financial support, time, and efforts need for litigation support, should there be a need. So, let us do what we want to safely and securely without much attraction from the outside world.

At the same time, we dont expect our threads to be deleted overnight for some routine warning mails and I request mods to post a notice in that thread for a duration of 8 hours and delete the thread completely.

So, if the mods are okay with posting the "notice" here in this thread, let them go ahead and do it, if it has not been addressed to a particular individual. Otherwise, let us kill the topic here and move ahead with our routine things.

I am sure there will be a day when HFV will be strong enough to mark these notices as spams and letz wait for that day.

Cheers!

 

[KonfuSed]

Exactly, even I would say let's bury this topic now and let us follow the rules. We don't want to see HVF in soup due to this. Let's just move on.

 

[santhosh]

Agree with Venkatesh and KonFused, we understand and respect HFV's stand on the topic. So time to move on and discuss other stuff. There are so many other threads to look at in this section