Audio output on streaming services?

[chander]

Have any of you - Tidal/qobuz/Am users - tried to level match and listen? My observations from the last 3 months -

1- Qobuz is vastly superior to anything - the sound quality is just something else - but their UI is pure pain (subjective), and makes listening to music a task (Subjective again). Their output is almost same as Spotify with 1 or 2 DB average difference between them.

2 - Tidal - I am not sure. Ignore MQA. Their Hi-res (non-MQA stuff) - pumps up louder 3-5DB (compared to Spotify). When you level match with Spotify, most differences disappear and songs can sound better on either. DEPENDS.

3 - AM - Again, their songs output way louder - massive differences here. Sometimes in excess of 7DB. Compared to Spotify and Tidal. You level match and then to my ears, AM is mostly bass-ier, the same songs on Tidal/Spotify/AM - AM almost always puts out more bass (subjective).
****Also please note - I am a complete Apple user - from phone/tab/computer/apple TV/watch/ipod - almost completely in the eco-system so this is not a bias, but an observation.

4 - Spotify - As the output Level bench mark. Rarely I have come across anything that is playing louder than either AM/Tidal. UI/Connectivity not withstanding.

Source - (taking wiim pro out of equation)
MacBook Air M1- RME ADI 2 DAC FS - Genelec Sub - Genelec Speakers.
******Using Desktop app - with MacBook Air M1 - USB to RME - All apps set to 100% volume - RME volume fixed on 30 - just changing services. All of this measured on decible X on mobile - kept at the same place.

What is happening? Am I missing something? This confuses me immensely.
***(Also I have given up on Qobuz - as I realised BEST SQ or not I just can't use it. - Will revisit in a year's time)

Why are different services pushing different DB output on the same volume? Am I looking at things wrong?
Is there inherently more volume in Hi-res? But then Qobuz & Spotify should also have major differences?

****also please note - my setup is nearfield - so even 3 Db is very noticeable.

Help out a lost soul. PLEASE.

 

[Nikhil]

Interesting comparison!

Have not paid attention as I adjust volume depending on my preference.
I have come to more or less the same conclusion regarding Qobuz and Spotify.

Qobuz has great quality but very limited library for some of the genres I like.
The UI is limited but offers just enough for listening on occasion.
Most people listen to Qobuz & Tidal via Roon so most would not notice.

Spotify I have found to be remarkably good and very balanced.
Their algorithm is amazing and just runs circles around any other streaming service.

I have Amazon Music but really could not listen past a few songs.

Differences in sound levels is quite normal even from song to song or between albums.
I do have "Normalize Volume" setting turned on in Spotify so that all music plays to the same level.



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[chander]

Have not paid attention as I adjust volume depending on my preference.
I have come to more or less the same conclusion regarding Qobuz and Spotify.

Yes so for me - I have kinda settled on the ADI's -40DBU, that kinda translates to around 65DB average at my listening position. Which is what I mostly listen to

Differences in sound levels is quite normal even from song to song or between albums.

Agreed with this, but why would same song - same album - same year - have difference in output level is what baffles me.

I am unable to understand if I am doing something wrong or the services have more gain in songs - I do not know the technical terms.

 

[Phew]

Why are different services pushing different DB output on the same volume? Am I looking at things wrong?
Is there inherently more volume in Hi-res? But then Qobuz & Spotify should also have major differences?

Long story short... mine is louder than yours.

Now to some observations I have had with Qobuz, Tidal, Apple music(AM), Youtube music(YM) and Potify. The only level matching I have done is by ear's, I donot own a mic and hence not the most accurate but yes all of them have different outputs.

1. In my home audio highest to lowest when using roon Qobuz>Tidal but the difference is very marginal. One of the reasons could be because I have always found tidal to be more bloated in the bass and muddy in the mids whereas qobuz I always find more balanced than tidal with cleaner but slightly thin mids and a more open and easy sounding treble.

2. highest to lowest when using airplay since my streamer/dac doesn't have an app it is YM>Potify>AM.
The output of airplay is considerable lower than roonfor reasons unknown to me but I have no issues with that as I donot mind turnig the volume dial.

3. In my car the order is YM>Potify>AM all of them through wired connection. No airplay or bluetooth.

Since I use roon, I have not used the tidal or qobuz app much hence have no issues with either when it comes to the app interface or its working. I use the tidal HI-FI sub and not the top tier because I have always hated how bad MQA sounds.

My favourite when it comes to song recommendation is YM and second is Roon radio.

Sound quality wise my preference is Qobuz>AM>Tidal>Potify>YM

Audio chain - Roon > Matrix mini-I pro3 > Sugden > Tannoy/ATC/Living voice (listening distance 9ft)
Car audio chain - Iphone(wired) > Alpine > Tru tech > Dynaudio > Rainbow vanadium sub

 

[ajuvignesh]

@Phew Sorry for going offtopic. Why do you use Potify instead of 'spotify. '

 

[Phew]

@Phew Sorry for going offtopic. Why do you use Potify instead of 'spotify. '

Thats how horrible it sounds

 

[ajuvignesh]

Thats how horrible it sounds

Hahaha

 

[Nikhil]

Why are different services pushing different DB output on the same volume? Am I looking at things wrong?
Is there inherently more volume in Hi-res? But then Qobuz & Spotify should also have major differences?

IMO streaming services can and do a little equalization to suit a sound profile they choose. Apart from bumping up the volume they can also selectively bump up some frequencies effectively creating a new mix. Some of it is done for the sound to be better heard on devices like headphones,TVs etc and others are just compressed versions ( essentially made louder). These are some of the so called "Remastered" versions of albums.

The more "regular" services like Amazon or Youtube are more likely to do some of this whereas the premium services like Qobuz tend to talk about offering "pristine" streams although my suspicion is that they also do a little bit of it.


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[Nikhil]

Thats how horrible it sounds

How are you playing Spotify in your setup?
I have used all the streaming services with and without Roon and there is a difference but not as bad as you say it is.


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[Phew]

How are you playing Spotify in your setup?
I have used all the streaming services with and without Roon and there is a difference but not as bad as you say it is.


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Airplay, as my streamer doesn't have an app so no other option I have. Actually the name Potify came thanks to my niece who is gonna be 3yrs this Oct, out of the blue she started saying Potify when she wanted to use the loo and from then on we just have a laugh at that in the family and that's how i've gotten used to calling it Potify. But this doesn't influence my experience above

 

[Saviosiddharth]

wiim pro plus or cambridge audio mxn 10...which is good for pioneer sa-8800 vintage amplifier