AVR vs Separates - Can You Hear a Difference?

[ravindrads]

I think Separates use dedicated DAC for each channel processing, AVR uses single DAC for all channels.
Separates will be better than AVR as per their specs.
But If we are hooking up with same power AMP with AVR , Separates then it is hard to make the difference unless if we hear very closely.
If budget is not constraint , then better to go with Separates. Else AVR is suffice.

That's right the dedicated processors use multiple DACs

 

[MaSh]

Biggest advantage of separates is independent power supplies. Nothing else. If one has really tough to drive speakers then having a dedicated power amp helps. For 95% of commercially available speakers any receiver spitting out around 100w per channel at 8ohms (2 channel driven) at 20-20khz is more than sufficient.

MaSh

 

[vkalia]

Wars have been fought here over cables (and vinyl vs digital ) with members banned,ego bruised , pomposity deflated , participation abandoned , with pages and pages of rants.

So I request everyone to …please start another one.

Why so pessimistic, saar?

Look at it this way - these arguments have been going on since atleast the mid-90s (that I am aware of). So maybe we are just a handful of posts from finding a resolution.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Yup - not to mention level matching as well. Even a small variation in level can affect the perception of the sound.

I have gotten around to the belief that if i have to work really, really hard to tell the difference between equipment, then that difference isnt really worth worrying about. So at this point, whether or not there is a difference in the sound quality of SS gear has become moot to me. Has made my life a lot easier, for sure!

Iam in the same boat
Improving what I currently have will necessitate selling a kidney. Even then the audible gains might be very small to my cottoned ears. So iam off the merry go round upgrade wagon, and just enjoying what I currently have.

 

[aeroash]

Look at it this way - these arguments have been going on since atleast the mid-90s (that I am aware of). So maybe we are just a handful of posts from finding a resolution.

The same was said in the mid nineties.

 

[Subbu68]

Most people don't even make a rig to test the difference. If they test, they manually change the speaker wires, connections to switch the units. This easily takes few minutes. In this time it is impossible for the human brain to store the information of even few seconds of how the frequency, timbre changed in the two units being tested. The only thing that that brain can perceive accurately is the difference in loudness. If the units are not level matched it leads to erroneous conclusions.

The only true way to test this is to have a system where you sit blind folded and have a switch which someone else turns it and the switch immediately switches the setup in milliseconds.

True..

Struggling to compare the choices for my upcoming OB - if to be near floor, or at ear height, tilt, no tilt, etc.without my audio calibration tool aka my daughter . ( At hostel now). I was switching the monoblocks with the two speakers in different positions and she judging with her better music sense. Now no chance and as all wrote our memories have short retention so comparison will be way off or find no different.

But can get a representative sound by recording and playback with headphones??

Continuous record..record, pause, change position, play the same song from same start point, record and so on... And hear them at a stretch.

 

[ravindrads]

Perfect sir.

Biggest advantage of separates is independent power supplies. Nothing else. If one has really tough to drive speakers then having a dedicated power amp helps. For 95% of commercially available speakers any receiver spitting out around 100w per channel at 8ohms (2 channel driven) at 20-20khz is more than sufficient.

MaSh

 

[Subbu68]

Biggest advantage of separates is independent power supplies. Nothing else. If one has really tough to drive speakers then having a dedicated power amp helps. For 95% of commercially available speakers any receiver spitting out around 100w per channel at 8ohms (2 channel driven) at 20-20khz is more than sufficient.

MaSh

I used to travel to sites in a Nissan Pickup before I had a D/L in UAE. Used to be sore after the trip. After I got my D/L and a car (a lowly Mazda 323) so comfy was it. Better suspension, seating and lesser engine drone..

Separates = car and AVRs = pickups

 

[MaSh]

I used to travel to sites in a Nissan Pickup before I had a D/L in UAE. Used to be sore after the trip. After I got my D/L and a car (a lowly Mazda 323) so comfy was it. Better suspension, seating and lesser engine drone..

Separates = car and AVRs = pickups

He he cool. I'd say going off roading in a thar with AT tyres and 2 wheel drive VS going in a thar with MT tyres, lowered pressures, 4 wheel drive with occasional low range.

MaSh

 

[aeroash]

I used to travel to sites in a Nissan Pickup before I had a D/L in UAE. Used to be sore after the trip.

The harshness was from the non-audiophile cables being used in the pickup.

 

[Subbu68]

He he cool. I'd say going off roading in a thar with AT tyres and 2 wheel drive VS going in a thar with MT tyres, lowered pressures, 4 wheel drive with occasional low range.

MaSh

I used to travel to sites in a Nissan Pickup before I had a D/L in UAE. Used to be sore after the trip. After I got my D/L and a car (a lowly Mazda 323) so comfy was it. Better suspension, seating and lesser engine drone..

Separates = car and AVRs = pickups

That was the reply i have to my BIL who was saying he got a better deal buying a Onkyo HTS (AVR, 2 front towers, centre and 2 rears, wiring, installation) while for the same price I could get only (in his view) a Yamaha Stereo amp and a pair of Jamo E855 and a set of Van den Hul Snowwhite cables!!!

 

[spirovious]

AVR uses single DAC for all channels.

Not always. Some Yamaha avr have separate chip for front channel say RXV685.Even older 671 had separate chips.

 

[k-pad]

Most people don't even make a rig to test the difference. If they test, they manually change the speaker wires, connections to switch the units. This easily takes few minutes. In this time it is impossible for the human brain to store the information of even few seconds of how the frequency, timbre changed in the two units being tested. The only thing that that brain can perceive accurately is the difference in loudness. If the units are not level matched it leads to erroneous conclusions.

The only true way to test this is to have a system where you sit blind folded and have a switch which someone else turns it and the switch immediately switches the setup in milliseconds.

Great point. +100!
I'd only add:
Start small, UNDERSTAND and KNOW what you want in your heart and what your brain can process. There is usually a meeting point somewhere. Any system that claims to, or even can, do above that is useless for you.

This takes time and effort. This should be the first step everyone should be looking at, after which comes understanding your own room and its positives and limitations.

All else is just an add-on in your journey.

Any clean watt of power fed into a good pair of speakers will make great sound. It is up to us to make the effort and hard work to figure if it is for us.

and hands on listening is the only thing that will give you this.

 

[rwnano]

Biggest advantage of separates is independent power supplies. Nothing else. If one has really tough to drive speakers then having a dedicated power amp helps. For 95% of commercially available speakers any receiver spitting out around 100w per channel at 8ohms (2 channel driven) at 20-20khz is more than sufficient.

MaSh

So then the real distinguisher is amplifier weight and transformer capacity and weight then????

 

[MaSh]

So then the real distinguisher is amplifier weight and transformer capacity and weight then????

Quality and adequate power supply. Weight or size does not matter.

MaSh

 

[rwnano]

Quality and adequate power supply. Weight or size does not matter.

MaSh

What do you think about high current capability design for amps

 

[Subbu68]

Great point. +100!
I'd only add:
Start small, UNDERSTAND and KNOW what you want in your heart and what your brain can process. There is usually a meeting point somewhere. Any system that claims to, or even can, do above that is useless for you.

This takes time and effort. This should be the first step everyone should be looking at, after which comes understanding your own room and its positives and limitations.

All else is just an add-on in your journey.

Any clean watt of power fed into a good pair of speakers will make great sound. It is up to us to make the effort and hard work to figure if it is for us.

and hands on listening is the only thing that will give you this.

Well said...

That I learnt in a hard way and loads of hard earned money down the drain.

 

[pkhammu2005]

I have used both seperates and a good AVR in my smallish room for a good no of yrs and learnt that seperates difference can be made out in bigger rooms at higher volumes, otherwise clarity wise didn't find much difference.
A seperates at -10db wd sound much cleaner than an AVR for sure,buy am sure with Avr pre outs one can also acheive the same.