With all due respects that is a seriously good sound card.
I'm sure Jplay does a lot of nice things but I'd give a lot of credit to the Hammerfall Card as well.
Ayon Skylla II
- Thread starter sidvee
- Start date
With all due respects that is a seriously good sound card.
I'm sure Jplay does a lot of nice things but I'd give a lot of credit to the Hammerfall Card as well.
May be the envelopes would reach in a better shape. Going by my personal experience, I can vouch for the following: -
1. Though they all transmit digital signals, not all digital transmission media are equal. Coaxial sounds better than Optical for example.
2. Though they all transmit digital signals, not all digital cables are equal. I've pitted my Yamamura Millennium 6000 coaxial digital interconnect against a generic interconnect which got beaten hands down.
I understand that they are transmitting bits but they sound different. I guess they are yet to figure out why.
Captain(?), its not about transmitting bits but what you transmit that matters. Not sure about SPDIF but generally all digital transmission including TCP/IP is done with checksums. A checksum is a digital signature which is sent along with data. The receiver will check the data received against the signature and reject it if it changed and ask for retransmission. This means unlike analog signals, generally digital transmission is not dependent on media. Thats the reason why your banking transactions are reliable even on unreliable media like wireless network
.reignofchaos
Well-Known Member
Yep coax spdif has no error correction. However tcp/ip most definitely does. High end network cables is a pure scam. As for jplay less said the better.
I guess the thread anyway went sidetracked into jplay and still again into cables.
here something to get back to the original sidetrack
posted by Mr Jplay
here something to get back to the original sidetrack
posted by Mr Jplay
Hi ROC, whats that about ?
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
Each to their own, and each may, as I said, do what the will with their own money. However, whilst there are many things audiphile where I simply disagree with my friends, but each to their own, or where I chuckle and pass on by, this sort of thing extends beyond extravagance and fun into the criminal.
There are two ends to a cable, and there are pieces of circuitry on either end. There are different implementations of digital-audio protocols. I see no problem at all with the supposedly identical data not being identical at all by the time it reaches the actual dac in the DAC. On the contrary, I wonder if, from that DAC chip's point of view, looking at its alternative feeds, the idea of bit-perfect actually exists!
However, TCP/IP/ethernet is not an audio transmission protocol, it is a data delivery system and, it delivers with error correction. I was reading an article a few weeks ago saying that we should throw away all the other digital audio connections, and use it as the audio connector of the future.
The data leaves one network adapter and arrives at another, where the packets are assembled, in correct order, and having been checked for errors. Bye-bye noise; bye-bye jitter, all those sorts of concerns ...gone. If this system breaks down, it is because it is actually broken, not because the colour of the conductors doesn't fit somebody's myth.
No. If they don't reach in the exactly right shape then there is a fault in the delivery system. They must reach on time, of course: IP over carrier pigeon will never do for music, but an old piece of 10Mb coax thin ethernet, if one can still get it and its cards, will probably do just fine, never mind all this Cat-n stuff of more recent decades.
Now I've done disrupting this thread. Sorry sidvee! I was hoping to be reading about your DAC, but then I had a nasty shock.
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bhagwan
Well-Known Member
100 % correct on both counts;
a]
I had this sound card from the dCS Days.
I had purchased this card to replace the Siltech G7 - USB Cable - simply because it was better than USB & then the dCS was sold, so I used this card with the DAD [Digital Audio Denmark - AX-24] & was happy - now with this new 2 machine set up I am ecstatic;;
b]
Yes Hydra - this is the same card I have been using.
Only change has been - I have done away with 'break out' cables.
I tried several break out cables - Belden / Reference Labs / Mogami / Bertram etc.
I finally settled on a 'custom' Bertram Proxima Silver Cable - Hard Wired between the Computer RME & DAD AX-24 - D-Sub to D-Sub [Connector]
Huge change & improvement....
Now waiting for the Revelation Audio Labs - Cat 7 Cable to arrive - 10 days - I hope - Florida USA - Silver Cryo Cable - will know if it makes a difference or it is snake oil & I have been had;;;;
bhagwan
Well-Known Member
Sir,
I am no techie - but if you could shed some light - I would be most grateful.
Personally - I never liked J Play.
I have been trying it for the 24 ++ months & was never convinced.
I always preferred J River & used it with Event Style - 25ms & was most happy with it.
J Play was not been than this - to my ears at least.
3 of my audio buddies - that play the 'hi' end game - with 100 K US $' ++ Speakers in their houses - all were J PLay people - but it never made a difference in the +ve to me = so I never shifted.
But, this new 2 machine thing is different - huge change & really better - trust me sir, I am a 100 % skeptic - regardless of price - if a product is good - I will give it its credit & if it is not good - again regardless of price - I will slam it;;;
Also, with regards Network Cables - Scam or now - I will know in 10 + days - I will report - only after I have installed it.
So no comments as of now - since I have not used it.
p.s. 1 small pointer - a friend of mine installed an Acoustic Revive issolator & he 'swears' by it;
The product is here :-
LAN-Isolator RLI-1?ACOUSTIC REVIVE
I could not justify its price so have kept it on hold as of now;
Maybe I could borrow it - install it & see how it behaves in my set up & then report.
@Thad - We already have error correcting connection in USB which is already in use and works wonderfully. IMHO, thats the way to go instead of introducing ethernet ports and having TCPIP software stack in the DAC which turns it into a mini computer.
@Bhagwan - As I said earlier, network transmission cannot differ with media. So be it silver or copper wire, either data received is same as data sent or it is not accepted. Even LAN isolator would not help with the sound, only reduce noise which you do not have since your jplay is currently transmitting data fine. Its like you travelling in a car, the isolator will make sure there is no traffic jam but wont change the look of the car or the person inside. Also, theoretically, a expensive DAC like yours will have more accurate clock circuitry than a regular PC. So if you have a async USB support in the DAC, I would go with that.
@Bhagwan - As I said earlier, network transmission cannot differ with media. So be it silver or copper wire, either data received is same as data sent or it is not accepted. Even LAN isolator would not help with the sound, only reduce noise which you do not have since your jplay is currently transmitting data fine. Its like you travelling in a car, the isolator will make sure there is no traffic jam but wont change the look of the car or the person inside. Also, theoretically, a expensive DAC like yours will have more accurate clock circuitry than a regular PC. So if you have a async USB support in the DAC, I would go with that.
bhagwan
Well-Known Member
Sir,
A few basic things;
My DAC is not Expensive.
It was for sale on this forum for Rs. 175/- K
http://www.hifivision.com/sale-owne...x-24-24bit-192khz-dac-cif-rs-175-k-india.html
My DAC only accepts AES Input - No USB is present.
Output is only XLR - This is a 100 % Studio Dac - so no RCA is present.
My RME is slaved to the DAD.
The DAD has a master clock out & that is used to slave the computer.
The pics in the above link should explain a few of the connections - I think..
Thad E Ginathom
Well-Known Member
I respect your experience and your ears, but, on this one, please set up a blind test!Now waiting for the Revelation Audio Labs - Cat 7 Cable to arrive - 10 days - I hope - Florida USA - Silver Cryo Cable - will know if it makes a difference or it is snake oil & I have been had;;;;
I think we have shed light. The information being transmitted over a network is not any sort of audio protocol, it is data that is completely unrelated to its purpose, audio, video or database, so the media, even indeed the method by which it gets transmitted cannot be relevant. As per my post, IP over pigeon has been shown as a concept: that is how irrelevant the physical method is! Of course, sufficient bandwidth is required, and I don't think we would enjoy music by pigeon
Sometimes the implausible turns out to be true, but I think we should take account of the technically impossible. And not fatten the wallets of the rogues selling it.
You could well be right. Believe it or not, I can be open-minded
and I am on this. So far, my experience only extends to PCI and Firewire (USB soon) but I don't think there are any major problems with any of the existing audio protocols that engineering has not been able to deal with. I'm sure that audiophiles suffer from more jitter than DACs do --- but they love to pounce on the maybes, exaggerate them, turn them into definite problems and expensive problems.
.....roftl....
bhagwan
Well-Known Member
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Today I connected my old oppo bdp83 player via coax to the Skylla II. This combination is sounding excellent and IMO much better than my previous Ayon Cd2s - at-least in bass extension. I am hearing deeper bass from all my favorite cd's that I have never heard before. Undoubtedly the skylla is an accomplished DAC. So though I will probably not listen to a Cd ever, as I plan on ripping all mine now to Wav's or Flacs, I will have a back up in the oppo - and more importantly will at-least use it as it was just sitting idle in my Ht rack, as I was using my media player mostly to watch movies. I have also decided to drop my idea of getting a Cd player entirely as I can't believe how good Flac's and Wav's are sounding.
Cheers,
Sid
Cheers,
Sid
bhagwan
Well-Known Member
Sir,
Just 1 suggestion;
Do not rip in Flac.
Use Pure Wave.
dB Power Amp
Secured
Accurate Rip
This I have found to be the best - so far.
p.s. For your Video Server - What Display Card do you use & Play Back Software ?
XBMC / J River ?
Yes Bhagwan, I agree. Wav is the way to go and that is what I will end up doing. Not sure about display card. I am using a generic Sony Vaio laptop (dedicated - no software including antivirus), running Jriver v17. I am in the process of building a music only pc, hopefully more optimized.
Cheers,
Sid
bhagwan
Well-Known Member
Sid,
I am a bit confused;
What you have stated above is for your Audio Server or for your Video Server ?
I was interested in your Video Server - to understand what you used there;
I personally have different machines in use for different jobs.
Audio has the new 2 machine J Play 5.1 set up.
Video has a 1 machine set up with a display card & I use XBMC & J River to watch movies.
Therefore I was keen to know what you used;;
Regards,
Hi Bhagwan,
Perhaps I am confused with terminologies. I use the Vaio laptop strictly as a music pc/audio, no video, no computing. It has windows 7 and JRiver MC v17 and thats it. Running JRMC in Wasapi Event style, connected via USB to M2tech hiface Evo converter along with clock and PSU and spdif from this to Ayon Skylla II.
For video I use a AC Ryan POHD2 media player in a separate HT system that has no connection with my audio system, except being in the same room - the equipment is mostly mid tier, nothing special, you can see them in my signature.
And as I stated earlier, I will replace the sony with a purpose built music only PC. In the process of picking up the cabinet, fans and motherboard, working in consulation with Hyderabad's HTPC guru, Rud3dawg.
Cheers,
Sid
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