Better half's View on Huge Investment in AV!
- Thread starter efernand1
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I have normal entry level speakers. Wharfedale D220 and Quad S2s. Even with these, I get less complaints from my Better Half with the Wharfedale D220s as they are a more laid back speaker and the high frequencies are not as pronounced as the Quads. Most of the time, with the Quads, she goes straight for the volume control even though I play music at very normal old man listening levels.
However, she surprised me the other day when I was watching a movie by asking my why my system sounds like that (meaning, it was not sounding as usual) My Marantz SR7010 had once again stopped working on the Digital inputs. No sound from either HDMI or Optical. So, tired of all the repairs, I got myself a very basic DAC (SMSL PS100), took an optical out from TV to DAC and DAC to Receiver. So, the receiver was now upscaling a two channel input into 9.1. The sound was not as it was earlier (not talking of the surround sound effects but just the quality of sound) but I was surprised that my wife noticed it.
Might have to change my DAC to something a bit better like the SMSL SU-1 to see if that improves the sound.
I guess, sometimes, we don't give enough credit to our Better Half's listening prowess.
However, she surprised me the other day when I was watching a movie by asking my why my system sounds like that (meaning, it was not sounding as usual) My Marantz SR7010 had once again stopped working on the Digital inputs. No sound from either HDMI or Optical. So, tired of all the repairs, I got myself a very basic DAC (SMSL PS100), took an optical out from TV to DAC and DAC to Receiver. So, the receiver was now upscaling a two channel input into 9.1. The sound was not as it was earlier (not talking of the surround sound effects but just the quality of sound) but I was surprised that my wife noticed it.
Might have to change my DAC to something a bit better like the SMSL SU-1 to see if that improves the sound.
I guess, sometimes, we don't give enough credit to our Better Half's listening prowess.
Sometimes , I too feel that way. I believe a modestly priced speaker with a matching amp will give excellent performance which sometimes outshines the insanely priced high ends.
I saw a couple of amplifiers for sale in the classified section which were priced over 3 lakhs. Will there be a difference in sound from a 30k -50k amplifier? Of course, there may be improvement in the sound (may not be too, if the synergy with the speaker is not right, but that is a different story).If at all there is improvement, is it worth the extra money, that is almost ten times the price. Definitely NO. At least no much difference that a human ear can identify. Any body have a difference of opinion. I think people who use such expensive amplifiers are fooling their mind, making it believe that the sound is 10 times better because you paid 10 times more money.
square_wave
Well-Known Member
There will never be 10 times improvement. The law of diminishing returns kick in at some point and that point is determined by the rest of your system, your goals and needs as well. Keep in mind that someone using a 3L amplifier is asking the same question about the guys using a 20L amplifier.
Enthusiasts at different points of their journey and financial means handle diminishing returns by being honest about their goals and budget, focusing on what actually improves their listening experience, sometimes limiting upgrades, and recognizing the importance of enjoyment, not just technical progress. Emotional satisfaction and personal values play as much a role as any rule about price versus performance.
VRavichandar
Well-Known Member
It is not the investment (I kept it moderate) itself that bothers her, but the constant tweaking, adjustments to get 'that better sound' that bugs her no end!
I gave up and switched to a 2 channel vintage stereo amp and both of us are now happy! I never liked the AVR sound as my focus is more on music than movie watching.
I gave up and switched to a 2 channel vintage stereo amp and both of us are now happy! I never liked the AVR sound as my focus is more on music than movie watching.
Yes, that is another big problem with high end units. The sound largely depends on the source, the cables used, the speaker placement, the room treatment etc etc. You never get satisfied/content with the sound you get, because you have invested a fortune on it and keep wondering whether " is this the best I can get of it", because you expect more and keep on experimenting and tweaking, ending up in lesser music listening time.
captainsubtext
Active Member
Audibly better - pricing doesn’t guarantee anything but if an amplifier is fundamentally built correctly you will audibly hear a step up.
Things like decay on instruments, tighter timing, holographic presentation are tough to find on cheaper amps. DIY is a different ballgame altogether.
But an
Yeah, but an ordinary listener as far as I know are least bothered about decay on instruments or nuances. Just for that sake, we aar forced to pay huge huge prices.
I think as one evolves as a listener, these things become critical. For example, I was listening to Crossing The Rubicon, in Dylan’s Rough and Rowdy Ways. This album and the song especially has a mellow, hazy kind of sound to give that warm, intimate feel as if you are there in smoke filled bar with Dylan singing just in front. The voice seemed a bit off centre to the right, so I adjusted the bias on my TT and I was able to get him back, reasonably in centre.
For piano, the decay and sustain of notes is what distinguishes a good piano player from a great one. While the piano is fundamentally a percussive instrument where hammers strike strings and the sound naturally decays, great pianists create the impression of sustained, singing notes through masterful pedal technique and touch. They use the sustain pedal with incredible precision, control the attack through their finger technique, and employ voicing methods that make certain notes seem to linger and resonate longer relative to others. This artistry - the subtle pedal work, the natural resonance they coax from the instrument, and how they shape each note’s envelope - sadly gets lost if the playback system cannot reproduce these nuances accurately. The listener then misses the full depth of what makes these performances truly exceptional.
square_wave
Well-Known Member
High fidelity audio gear are usually appreciated by music lovers who are active listeners even if they are sitting off axis working on something. Bad fidelity is often a cause of irritation for them even if it is emanating from another room. Their goal is to recreate the original performance as best as possible within the constraints of a budget. Meaning, as budget increases and (if ?) the listener also evolves as a listener, it is possible to increase the fidelity of the music system to appreciate the music even more. That is the whole point of the hobby. These people are the audiophile - music - lovers!
I also know there are exceptions to this. There are folks who fully appreciate music on a low budget system. Even if they evolve as a listener, they won't upgrade anything. They focus more on the tune and melody even if the sound is slightly limited in fidelity. That is also a good approach. Saves a lot of money too.
Btw, who is an ordinary listener ?
This was a long-standing thought of mine. comparing amplifiers that are inexpensive to ones that could cost up to 5–6 lakh. There are wide variations in the parts used, construction quality, and sound signature. On the other hand, some very costly amplifiers, like TAD and Gryphon, cost between $5 million and $20 million. I don't get why they are so expensive at that pricing; even with the addition of R&D and design teams, etc., the cost will still fall within the desired range. Several of the most costly manufacturers of active and passive components in the world do not charge millions of dollars for their components. "Luxury branding serves as their only pillar."
morerajendra5678
Member
Most audiophiles have either inherited their system or have themselves built it overtime. Most important part is the speakers and the source. Unless the source is upto mark, you won't hear much of the nuances in the system even with highend amplifier. Once someone loves the sound of a speaker/ signature sound of a brand, they fix the source and then the amplifier.
People using very highend speakers or amplifiers don't make major changes in their system for years.
Then there are others who believe that instead of making small incremental changes in amplifier and losing money by way sale of their old stuff, it is better to take big leap and settle for next many years. But here again the common factor will be they like the signature of the speaker and have fixed their source.
But the bottom line is that you don't always need a highend system to enjoy music.
Those listeners who don't claim they have the golden ears to identify the subtle differences between a mid end and high end system
A friend of mine took a similar decision. He didn't want to upgrade frequently and lose money so he made a huge leap. Bought a very expensive cd player, don't remember the name, a Densen B120 amplifier, a pair of Harbeth P3ESR , and expensive interconnects and speaker cables from Cardas spending a hefty amount. First of all, let me tell you that only a few genres of music recorded in high quality sounded good on that set up. To cut short a sad story, he sold the set up after around 2 months. Finding buyers for such items is a herculean task. So he had a tough time selling it. Not sure how much loss he incurred.
I totally agree to your last line...."But the bottom line is that you don't always need a highend system to enjoy music."
square_wave
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, there are ways to assemble a system to suit one's music preferences and expectations for sound at all price points. What happened to your friend does not prove the hypothesis that "more expensive will only sound better with audiophile recordings". Wrong system assembly is a malady that pervades the hobby at all price points.
What system did he go back to? OR What did he upgrade from ?
rwnano
Well-Known Member
In my case it was guidance of forum elders like corelement and MGdelhi and Anshul J and mbhanghui and spirovirous that enabled me to piece together my system which I am happy with for now. So my two cents would be to have good advisors. Also reddit and diyaudio forums helped me by obtaining the perspective from the US and Europe.
morerajendra5678
Member
Here you have not specified anything about the source which is more relevant than the amplifier used. So as per my opinion, it is difficult to comment on what was lacking. If the source is a quality one, good recordings sound very good and bad recording still is very much listenable. With Tidal streaming service, most recording is a pleasure and enjoyable on Harbeth speaker provided you have a decent to very good Dac.
I don't have experience with cd players so can't comment on what will float the boat.
morerajendra5678
Member
Yes very well said. Having someone to guide or mentor helps prevent unnecessary wastage in form of not so necessary upgrades.
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