Bi-wiring

Wharfedale Linton Heritage Speakers

dichkaun

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
200
Points
18
Location
Bangalore
I know Bi-wiring is a controversial thing, but I suggest trying it out.

I had some extra electrical wire (left over from house wiring) lying around. I used that to bi-wire my speakers. There was a noticeable difference.

So I went ahead and bought some speaker cables and properly bi-wired the speakers.

I wouldn't say that it has made my 20K speakers sound like a 100K ones, but there is a good bit of difference.

I think one should try it out with some ordinary wire and if there is an improvement, upgrade to regular speaker wire.

~dich



I sugg
Bi Wiring to Loudspeakers
 

unleash_me

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
2,223
Points
113
Location
Nostalgia
Dich,

That is interesting to know how you had made out difference in the sound after bi-wiring, especially with electrical cables.

Couple of years back, with my friends (all self proclaimed audiophiles:rolleyes:) wanted to put an end to this confusion. So we arranged this 'blind test' with our systems bi-wired and bi-amped. The conclution was simple. No one, trust me, no one heard anything different in bi-wiring (this includes our then girlfriends and now wifis ;))

But when we tried bi-amping, there were noted differences. The sound was more meaty and punchy, bass was definitely tighter and sound audibly refined. It felt like the speakers had a double can of redbulls, you know what i mean?

So I use bi-amping thanks to my individual experience and testing. If you find bi-wiring better, equally good. End of the day, we all can share our experiences and get the max out of our pricey investments!
 

dichkaun

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
200
Points
18
Location
Bangalore
That is why I started off with saying that it is a controversial topic.

Since trying out with any wire lying around costs only the effort required, I would suggest a try.

Ofcourse YMMV.

~dich
 

spycatcher

Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
94
Points
8
Location
New Delhi
Hi Dumb question -
1. Whats the basic diff between Bi-Wiring and Bi-Amping...
2. How can one do Bi-Amping? Does one require two amps for this?
 

dinyaar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
1,604
Points
63
Location
Mumbai
Hi to all,

As said above to biwire or not has had endless debates and there is enough reason to believe there should be an audible improvement. My personal experience is that it makes a difference in some speakers (sound more open, focussed and better reproduction at higher volumes) and some it is hardly noticable. I guess each of us should try it for themselves.

My observation is that once u biwire there is a "SAMENESS" to the sound by that i mean most recording sound airy and open when some are not supposed to. I guess its difficult to put in words.

Some say its a marketing gimmick and a demand by various cable manufacturing companies and some speakers manufacturers oblige. Dynaudio (makers of top quality drivers for years and suppliers to some very high end speaker manufacturers) is a non believer where as B&W strongly recommends u to biwire to get the most of ur speakers.

Explore!!!!
 
Last edited:

dinyaar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
1,604
Points
63
Location
Mumbai
Hi,

Just to add a bit more. My set up is a Rotel pre power and B&W 805 s. The interconnects are VDH D102 and speaker wire is CS 122. I had some VDH clearwater speaker wire also so i biwired my speakers yesterday using the thicker CS 122 for the low/mids and the clearwater for the tweeter. The B&W people say biwiring is the Minimum one should do for the 800 series.

I listened to the same recordings and they did appear to sound airy, more depth and better seperation of instruments so i urge all the guys to just try it. All it means is buying either a same gauge or thinner cable from the same manufacturer(so the sonics dont change).

Regards
 

pradski

Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
278
Points
18
Location
Mysore
Hi,

If anybody can help me.

I learnt of biwiring recently.

I read them, to what I understand I can do it.

But I have some doubts, I hope somebody can clear them.

first, Yamaha AVR brochure mentions one of the feature saying "assignable amplifiers for bi amp connection". (RX-V861 and RX-V661).
What does that mean ?

Next Speaker terminal have extra for high freq and bass.
Does the same exist in avr or is it you take two wires each from each terminal.

Other one is do you interconnect these second cables before they reach speaker. because in one illustration it is shown Fig 3.
Bi Wiring to Loudspeakers


If speaker A and B are front channels for different zones.

Does the power is same in both or do they divide if both are connected.

Why can't we connect the zone B as a second line for biwiring.



Thank you
 
Last edited:

unleash_me

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
2,223
Points
113
Location
Nostalgia
But I have some doubts, I hope somebody can clear them.

first, Yamaha AVR brochure mentions one of the feature saying "assignable amplifiers for bi amp connection". (RX-V861 and RX-V661).
What does that mean ?

Next Speaker terminal have extra for high freq and bass.
Does the same exist in avr or is it you take two wires each from each terminal.

MAKE SURE TO REMOVE THE BRIDGES BEFORE ATTEMPTING ANYTHING!

Bi-amping is done by using 2 amps ( 2 integrated/ Integrated with power amp/ or mono blocks) In the case of an AVR, you may use the rear channels of the 7.1 channels (there by making your amp work as a typical 5.1) and using the rear channels to bi-amp the front L&R speakers. This way you are using 2 power sources (amps) to power your front channels.

http://avforum.no/forum/attachments/hoyttalere/17679d1173020216-hva-gjor-biamping-biamp.jpeg

Like shown in the above picture, you may use connect the front channels to power the high freq terminals and rear channels to low frequency terminals.

On the other hand Bi-wiring is done with a single amp.
http://avforum.no/forum/attachments/hoyttalere/17679d1173020216-hva-gjor-biamping-biamp.jpeg
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~jcgl/Scots_Guide/audio/biwire/Fig2.gif

Am sure your manual would have pictorial representation to guide you precisely how to go about this. Btw, if this is not confusing enough, revert back for more;)

Cheers.
 

pradski

Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
278
Points
18
Location
Mysore
Unleash,

Thank you for your valuable reply.

Now I am ready for my trial of bi wiring, moment my cables arrive.

Thank you.
 

surfatwork

Active Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
298
Points
43
Location
Kochi
i strongly recommend a blind test before you double your investment in cables. Borrow the cables you intend to biwire with, get a friend to single-wire and then bi-wire while you sit with your eyes closed. get your friend to repeat s-wiring and b-wiring in a random order several times. Resist the temptation to sneak a peek at what the config is - use only your ears.
If you can really make out a positive difference with biwiring, then go ahead and buy the extra cables by all means.
 

legin

Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
49
Points
8
Location
Mumbai
Hi
just a quick qts if I have Speaker option A & B can I Bi- wire. do Let me know
The Amp I have is the Nad 355 BEE

legin
 

flanker.r

Active Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
115
Points
43
Location
Chennai
Connect 'A' to lows and 'B' to highs. Remember to remove the jumper in the speakers.

There wont be much of a difference though for 2 reasons

1. both 'A' and 'B' are just parallel terminals from output of the same amp (atleast in all Nad amps)

2. bi-wiring is not worth the extra cost or trouble involved

Even bi-amping unless its done through an active crossover (and crossovers in speakers are removed) is not worth the extra effort or cost involved. Passive bi-amping is waste of money, equipment and time
 

myriad

Active Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
479
Points
28
Location
Kolkata
Hi to all,

As said above to biwire or not has had endless debates and there is enough reason to believe there should be an audible improvement. My personal experience is that it makes a difference in some speakers (sound more open, focussed and better reproduction at higher volumes) and some it is hardly noticable. I guess each of us should try it for themselves.

My observation is that once u biwire there is a "SAMENESS" to the sound by that i mean most recording sound airy and open when some are not supposed to. I guess its difficult to put in words.

Some say its a marketing gimmick and a demand by various cable manufacturing companies and some speakers manufacturers oblige. Dynaudio (makers of top quality drivers for years and suppliers to some very high end speaker manufacturers) is a non believer where as B&W strongly recommends u to biwire to get the most of ur speakers.

Explore!!!!

My Avitas are more open and smooth with biwire.

Regards
Vasu
 

reju

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
1,440
Points
83
Location
Mumbai
An extract from Diamond 9 brochure:

The four connectors in total, two red and two black, allow the high frequency and bass drivers to be connected separately. Although a gold-plated bridge connector is supplied if you really wish to use a standard cable, even when using an amplifier with one set of outputs, it is worth using bi-wire cable. Linking the cable at the amplifier end instead of the loudspeaker end will reduce intermodulation to give a more open mid-range.
 

reignofchaos

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 12, 2008
Messages
2,426
Points
113
Location
Bangalore
My Avitas are more open and smooth with biwire.

Regards
Vasu

Depends on what wire. I'm sure there would be a hundred more expensive single wire solutions that would be better than your biwire solution.

All depends upon the wallet power and there's no absolute in cables. Whatever floats your boat :p
 

sonosphere

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
734
Points
63
Location
Pune
Hi,
I Bi-wired my speakers yesterday and I found dramatic improvement in terms of open sound, the accompanying soundstage, and separation between instruments. There is also good improvement in treble-extension and details. Separation of instruments and their tone at bass end also good. The mids are marginally improved in terms of tone & texture and air around them.

I have used 12 AWG Mogami 3103 stranded copper cable for Woofer and DAC-make 14 AWG OFC copper stranded copper cable for Tweeter. (I've used the DAC make since 2009 as main cable, then upgraded to Mogami early this year that brought about improvements in mids and bass.)

In an earlier post Dinyaar talks about "sameness" of sound... fortunately to my ears my system doesn't sound that way. All songs don't sound "open" /thin, if that's what Dinyaar meant. Recordings that seem to have been recorded in acoustics of a small room still sound as recorded in a small room except you can feel small reverb of a small room now, whereas earlier that small reverb was not audible that much. OTOH recordings already having ambience /reverb of a large space like Live-performance recordings, now sound HUGE.

I suggest every body who own bi-wirable speakers should try bi-wiring. Who knows you may end up with upgraded SQ at cost of only additional pair of speaker cable. Whatever is your main cable shift that to tweeters and get any basic 12 AWG OFC copper stranded wire cable for woofers. Do post your impressions of how your system's SQ sounds.

Regards,
Sonsosphere
 
Last edited:

Shivam

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2010
Messages
1,232
Points
113
Location
Uttarakhand
Hi,
I Bi-wired my speakers yesterday and I found dramatic improvement in terms of open sound, the accompanying soundstage, and separation between instruments. There is also good improvement in treble-extension and details. Separation of instruments and their tone at bass end also good. The mids are marginally improved in terms of tone & texture and air around them.

I have used 12 AWG Mogami 3103 stranded copper cable for Woofer and DAC-make 14 AWG OFC copper stranded copper cable for Tweeter. (I've used the DAC make since 2009 as main cable, then upgraded to Mogami early this year that brought about improvements in mids and bass.)

In an earlier post Dinyaar talks about "sameness" of sound... fortunately to my ears my system doesn't sound that way. All songs don't sound "open" /thin, if that's what Dinyaar meant. Recordings that seem to have been recorded in acoustics of a small room still sound as recorded in a small room except you can feel small reverb of a small room now, whereas earlier that small reverb was not audible that much. OTOH recordings already having ambience /reverb of a large space like Live-performance recordings, now sound HUGE.

I suggest every body who own bi-wirable speakers should try bi-wiring. Who knows you may end up with upgraded SQ at cost of only additional pair of speaker cable. Whatever is your main cable shift that to tweeters and get any basic 12 AWG OFC copper stranded wire cable for woofers. Do post your impressions of how your system's SQ sounds.

Regards,
Sonsosphere

Try this simple test -
For one of the speakers, connect the jumpers between the binding posts. Leave the wires for both the speakers as they are now.
Play a mono track.
If you hear any difference in the two speakers then it maybe the effect of biwiring. If not, then the improvement that you are hearing maybe attributed to the thicker wire (sum of the two wires).
 

Tanoj

Active Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2011
Messages
439
Points
43
Location
Bangalore
Hello Friends,

I see that bi Wireing has been explained in detail in this thread, however i wanted to re check

I have a sansui B2102 power amp there are 8 speaker sockets ( 4 for Speaker A, 4 For speaker B ) at the back, and two Switches in the front ( Speaker - A , Speaker - B )

right now sine iam using single wiring so i have connected only to the Speaker - A sockets and the Speaker A switch when pressed sends the signal to the speakers

so to do biwiring i should first remove the jumpers from the back of the speakers, then connect wires from Speaker - B socket to the top sockets of the speakers, and then Press both the switches in the front ( Speaker - A & Speaker - B ) correct ?

Thank you

Tanoj
 
Top