CD player vs media player

sand64

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Hi

I have limited knowedge of digital world and request further insight from the forum members. I want to add a cd player with my AVR. Presntly I am using a dvd player as source. Want more information on following issues..

1. A stand alone cd player is considered as a better source. But what is wrong if I play CDs through DVD player which is digitally connected to my AVR through coaxial. Afterall dvd player is only acting as transport and decoding is done by AVR which has burr-brown DAC.....

2. What if I buy a media player with hard disk (instead of buying cd player) and keep all my cd collection into it in .wave form. I am sure media players can also decode. So I can either use its decoder or that of AVR.

3. or use my computer's audio out with Y connecter?

thanks in advance
 
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1. A stand alone cd player is considered as a better source. But what is wrong if I play CDs through DVD player which is digitally connected to my AVR through coaxial. Afterall dvd player is only acting as transport and decoding is done by AVR which has burr-brown DAC.....

This has been discussed many times, but let me summarise.

A CD Player, compared to a DVD Player, is a more specialised unit made to play two channel music. It has the requisite transport and electronics for doing that. Most important it has internal decoders and DAC that is optimised to deliver music well.

A DVD player, on the other hand, is made to play DVDs first, and since the disc size is the same, everything else such as CD, VCD, etc. The laser is thinner to accommodate the data that is written closed in the DVD. Since most DVDs except an external unit to decode 5.1/7.1 they just pick up the data and send it out in digital form.

If you connect it to something like a TV that does not have 5.1 capabilities, the sound is down mixed (either by the player or by the TV) to 2 channels.

When it comes to play audio CDs, since that is not the main concern of the DVD player, most manufacturers do not give much attention to the electronics for 2 channel audio play back. And, since these players are very budget priced, the stereo or 2 channel audio electronics are always compromised.

As you go up the price ladder, you will find player doing a good job with audio CDs also. If you buy a DVD such as the Oppo 981 or 983, they have specialised circuits to deliver good stereo music, in addition to 5.1/7.1 decoding. Such players are expensive, costing around 20K if not more. CA also makes a DVD player that is decent for audio playback.

The issue is that to get music from a DVD Player, you must spend close to 25K or so. Instead you can get a DVD Player for about 5, and a very decent CD Player for about 20K, that will any day be better that a DVD Player at the same price.

2. What if I buy a media player with hard disk (instead of buying cd player) and keep all my cd collection into it in .wave form. I am sure media players can also decode. So I can either use its decoder or that of AVR.

A media player is good, but in many ways, it is like a DVD player with a hard disk. It is capable of decoding just about any audio and video container formats, but does not have very good internal circuits for decoding and playing two channel music.

3. or use my computer's audio out with Y connecter?

This is the way of the future and you should spend your money and efforts in this line. Look for threads discussing DAC, HTPC, and Sound Cards. A well built HTPC with a good sound card external DAC will be a superb player for music and movies.

Cheers
 
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I have taken route 3, which is WD TV (media player) connected to CA DacMagic MK2I . This is the future.

But having said that I am also scouting for a CDP bcos the charm of playing a CD via a cd player is lost in a digital age, may be I am still old fashioned in many ways!!! or I am crossroads :)

You can check my thread on DacMagic and also how I am using my Acer Laptop as a music player
 
Yeah! Things r now going into my head. Thanks venkat, I really appreciate the way u explain things... few more questions and still unresolved issues.

1. Is there any difference between DAC & decoder. I think both r same... a device to convert binary into wave form through sampling of datas. am I correct? Is burr brown DAC of my AVR not good for 2-channel decoding?

2. Threads discussing DAC, HTPC, and Sound Cards sometimes go over my head. I have Dell Latitude Laptop and 8 year old IBM desktop. I hope the onboard soundcards should be good enough.

3. The Specs of CD section of my old BPL-sanyo system reads as "1 bit D/A converter" with 44.1 khz sampling frequency with 3-beam optical laser pick up. Don't understand much of it except now-a-days they use very different specs.

cheers
 
1. Is there any difference between DAC & decoder. I think both r same... a device to convert binary into wave form through sampling of datas. am I correct? Is burr brown DAC of my AVR not good for 2-channel decoding?

A DAC is a Digital-To-Analog convertor that takes a digital audio signal and converts it to an analogue signal. It does nothing else.

Digital data is stored in various formats mostly related to compression. The logic used for compression is called a 'Codec'. A decoder reads the digital signals, understand the Codec used and converts the digital signal into aa format either for DAC or for pre-amplification. Some formats of coding are Dolby, DTS, etc. A 5.1 surround sound, for example can be stored in a single compressed data stream. This data stream is read by the decoder and separated into 6 audio streams.

A Burr Brown DAC chip, per se, may have good specifications. But, the implementation of the chip varies from amplifier to amplifier. In a CD Player, the Burr Brown chip will be implemented to optimise the way the designer feels the DAC should behave for 2 channel music. The same design may not be implemented in an AVR.

2. Threads discussing DAC, HTPC, and Sound Cards sometimes go over my head. I have Dell Latitude Laptop and 8 year old IBM desktop. I hope the onboard soundcards should be good enough.

Unless you are using something like an iMac, a laptop is not very good for critical music delivery. Just like a DVD Player, the onboard sound system in a laptop is not optimised for good music delivery.

The concept of storing and delivering music from computers have take root over the last few years. Companies such as Asus, Intel and others have started making specialised hardware that have low noise, low interference, etc. If you are using a old desktop, the best would be to get a sound card that is made for audiophile sound quality. It should have high signal to noise ratio, capacity to remove jitter and deliver clean data.

3. The Specs of CD section of my old BPL-sanyo system reads as "1 bit D/A converter" with 44.1 khz sampling frequency with 3-beam optical laser pick up. Don't understand much of it except now-a-days they use very different specs.

Though there are various ways of explaining this, let me give you the simplest one. The basic objective of a DAC is to replicate the original wave form as closely as possible. This depends on two things = how much data is sampled in a second, and the number of samples read in each instance. The quantity of data read is measured in kilo bits per second. The more the speed, the shorter is the distance between each sampling instance. This will give you a resultant wave that is nearly identical to the original wave form. You can also specify the number of bits of data that is read at each sampling instance. This can be 4, 8, 16, 32 and so one. This is called bit rate. This can also be called parallel processing.

In an 1-bit DAC, the bits are read one after the other, 1 bit at a time. This is serial processing and is termed as a 1 bit DAC. Since this will slow down the processing, the DAC uses very high sampling frequencies such as 44.1 kbps or even more. 1 bit DACs are supposed to be linear and 'analoguish', but is difficult to implement.

Both methods have their advantages and disadvantages. Modern electronics have very high speed and can handle a large data sample easily. Sanyo is one of the few companies that is very fond of 1-bit linear DACs.

Cheers
 
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