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Concealing in-wall speakers

Wharfedale EVO4.1 Bookshelf Speakers

raman340

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Does anybody know how to conceal in-wall speakers. I am particularly interested if somebody has done it with a fabric/canvas painting.
 

unleash_me

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particleman

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If you wish to conceal the speakers you will need to use acoustically transparent fabric. I'm not sure if this would be exactly the same as used in grills and screens but anyone offering home-theater installation would know best.

Apart from the Polk suggested above, you also have:
Mordaunt Short Architect series (Avant Architect / Products / Mordaunt Short)
Wharfedale has their sound panels (Wharfedale) and in-wall speakers (Wharfedale)
Finally, there's also Monitor Audio (Monitor Audio HI-FI Loudspeakers, Surround Sound Systems, AV Systems - Monitor Audio Ltd Essex, UK)

Along with "in-wall" you also have "on-wall" speakers that are rather flat like the PSB VisionSound series.

As I have never dealt with this sort of speakers I do not have much to add.
 

raman340

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If you wish to conceal the speakers you will need to use acoustically transparent fabric. I'm not sure if this would be exactly the same as used in grills and screens but anyone offering home-theater installation would know best.

Apart from the Polk suggested above, you also have:
Mordaunt Short Architect series (Avant Architect / Products / Mordaunt Short)
Wharfedale has their sound panels (Wharfedale) and in-wall speakers (Wharfedale)
Finally, there's also Monitor Audio (Monitor Audio HI-FI Loudspeakers, Surround Sound Systems, AV Systems - Monitor Audio Ltd Essex, UK)

Along with "in-wall" you also have "on-wall" speakers that are rather flat like the PSB VisionSound series.

As I have never dealt with this sort of speakers I do not have much to add.

Indeed I researched and did not find any specific info on that apart from the fact I need to use acoustically transparent fabric (as you also said), or if spray paint is used. But what is this fabric?? I went to CP (in delhi) to get some info on paintings, I was told that oil paints on canvas will block the sound (and will start to peel off). However I feel that either semi-Silk fabric, cotton based fabric, or Jute might help. I am planning to install my speakers in the wall and conceal with a painting.
 

raman340

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Further findings on this topic

Fabric Materials:
1) 100% polyester
2) Jute can be used as well
3) cross wooven fabric

Paints:
1) Water based (Oil based are a no-no)

Alternatives:
1) Artistic Embroidery !!! (should reap out good results)
2) Wall hangings (make sure it is not heavily drapped)
 

particleman

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Acoustically transparent fabric is specially made for projector screens and wall panels. That is, it is specially manufactured and a substitute such as those you have listed may or may not server as well. The trick is to blow through the fabric and see if there is resistance. If you do not wish to take a chance it is best to buy special fabric specifically for this purpose. For example, see:
Acoustic Fabrics for Walls, Panels and Speaker Covers

You will not be able to paint on or embroider them - it is best to match them to your walls and leave it at that.
 

raman340

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For that you would first need, well in-wall speakers!

Do you (and all) think that there would be some sound deterioration? I am planning to in-wall something similar to Boss Accoustimass:
product_145366.jpg


I would also be using glass wool in the cavity (for early reflections..may be..).
 

ranjeetrain

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For that you would first need, well in-wall speakers!

Do you (and all) think that there would be some sound deterioration? I am planning to in-wall something similar to Boss Accoustimass:
product_145366.jpg


I would also be using glass wool in the cavity (for early reflections..may be..).

In-wall speakers can only be a replacement for bookshelves.

Well designed in-wall speakers can be a bit-for-bit match for their bookshelf counterpart.

Trying to conceal something like Boss Accoustimass in a wall is gonna be a poor decision.
 

raman340

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In-wall speakers can only be a replacement for bookshelves.

Well designed in-wall speakers can be a bit-for-bit match for their bookshelf counterpart.

Trying to conceal something like Boss Accoustimass in a wall is gonna be a poor decision.


Thanks ranjeetrain.. for the valuable input. Any reasoning/reference for this, or an article you can refer me to.

Does anyone else also second this? (It will be a big change in plan)
 

ranjeetrain

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A loudspeaker contains a transducer. A transducer has a voice coil. The voice coil is suspended in a static magnetic field. A cone is attached to the voice coil. When current is applied to the voice coil, it moves and the motion generates sound waves by pressurizing the surrounding air.

The quantity and quality of the sound wave generated depends on the cone movement. The quantity depends on the cone area. How big an area the cone is able to cover by its movement. Or as a whole, how much of air the cone is able to apply pressure to.

To enhance the quantity of output, transducers are enclosed in cabinets. Enclosing the transducer in a cabinet limits the amount of air to which the cone will apply its pressure, thus resulting in a better efficiency. That's in simplest terms. There is a lot more to cabinet design. In a nutshell, the cabinet or the enclosure plays an extremely important role in speaker design.

When you choose to wall install (vs wall mount) a speaker, you essentially eliminate the enclosure part. A speaker in a wall enclosure is much like a bookshelf in a sealed enclosure design. Less efficient but more controlled.

The design of bookshelves is such that it can work in a shallow cabinet or wall installation, but the basic requirements of sub-woofer design is such that, it requires larger drivers and larger cabinet. Additional volume in the cabinet helps in bringing down the frequency response by several dBs.

When you say you want to install a Bose Accoustimass in-wall, I suspect it will work.

If I remember it correctly, Bose Accoustimass uses a band pass enclosure of 6th order. That design, I believe, is simply impossible to achieve (unless may be you have walls 10-20 inches deep and are open to idea of drilling through it). Even then I doubt if it will be successful in a wall installation.

That's all me Lord!
 
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raman340

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If you have decent budget, you could consider Artcoustic flat speakers, that are extremely good.

Artcoustic

Hi Suniil. Indeed I have heard abt them. Can't go with these:
1) Not much availability in India.
2) I want to re-use spk set I have. Will be spending on AVR instead as of now.

BTW. Congratulations for your new setup. I saw the pics on the other forum (If I am not mistaken). It has come out "fantabulous".

Raman
 

raman340

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A loudspeaker contains a transducer. A transducer has a voice coil. The voice coil is suspended in a static magnetic field. A cone is attached to the voice coil. When current is applied to the voice coil, it moves and the motion generates sound waves by pressurizing the surrounding air.

The quantity and quality of the sound wave generated depends on the cone movement. The quantity depends on the cone area. How big an area the cone is able to cover by its movement. Or as a whole, how much of air the cone is able to apply pressure to.

To enhance the quantity of output, transducers are enclosed in cabinets. Enclosing the transducer in a cabinet limits the amount of air to which the cone will apply its pressure, thus resulting in a better efficiency. That's in simplest terms. There is a lot more to cabinet design. In a nutshell, the cabinet or the enclosure plays an extremely important role in speaker design.

When you choose to wall install (vs wall mount) a speaker, you essentially eliminate the enclosure part. A speaker in a wall enclosure is much like a bookshelf in a sealed enclosure design. Less efficient but more controlled.

The design of bookshelves is such that it can work in a shallow cabinet or wall installation, but the basic requirements of sub-woofer design is such that, it requires larger drivers and larger cabinet. Additional volume in the cabinet helps in bringing down the frequency response by several dBs.

When you say you want to install a Bose Accoustimass in-wall, I suspect it will work.

If I remember it correctly, Bose Accoustimass uses a band pass enclosure of 6th order. That design, I believe, is simply impossible to achieve (unless may be you have walls 10-20 inches deep and are open to idea of drilling through it). Even then I doubt if it will be successful in a wall installation.

That's all me Lord!

Objection sustained!
Well a neat explanation there.
I do not intend to remove the spk encl. Instead I want to dug out a cavity having a back wall. Something similar to what people use for shelving and displaying artifacts. I just want to cut out a cavity large enough for a portrait (16x20) to cover (I will be using some acoustically transparent fabric) and deep enough that my satellites can be placed on the base of the cavity.

Should it still not work out?
 

raman340

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I am ref to:
product_145366.jpg


I intend to dug out a cavity large enough for a portrait (16 x20) to cover, and simply place each satellite in each cavity. The sub will however be placed on the floor besides the entertainment cabinet.
Will this work?
Raman
 

awedeophile

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I intend to dug out a cavity large enough for a portrait (16 x20) to cover, and simply place each satellite in each cavity. The sub will however be placed on the floor besides the entertainment cabinet.
Will this work?

Not ideal since you won't be able to rotate the satellites to optimize the sound as intended by the design, but YES, it will work.
 

ranjeetrain

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I am ref to:
product_145366.jpg


I intend to dug out a cavity large enough for a portrait (16 x20) to cover, and simply place each satellite in each cavity. The sub will however be placed on the floor besides the entertainment cabinet.
Will this work?
Raman

This is where I misunderstood. I thought you wanted to hide your sub.

Yes absolutely, satelites can be hidden. They will be just fine. But it would be even better to wall mount them rather than wall install. That will be a lot more flexible.
 
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