Confused between Phonostage, preamp & amp

[Saket]

Hello Guys,

I am planning to get a used technics turntable- SL-Q33. The seller told that i would need a phonostage and amp. I am little confused. Is phonostage same as pre-amp? WOuld the technics not be having its own pre-amp or adding a preamp is necessary to the player to feed it to amp?
SO overall, i am a little confused that what equipments i would need to play music on the turntable.
I was initially planning to buy this turntable and a home theatre (or speaker system) to play my lps. But now i am confused that what will I need overall. Please help.

THanks in advance,
Saket.

 

[jls001]

Turntable output goes to phono preamplifier. Phono preamplifier output goes to preamplifier input. Preamplifier output goes to power amplifier.

What amplifier do you use?

Check if your amplifier has something marked "Phono" along with other inputs like "AUX", "TAPE", "CD", etc. If it has "Phono" input, you can plug the output from your turntable into "Phono", select source from front panel as Phono and you're singing.

If you don't have "Phono" input in your amplifier, then you will need to buy an external Phono Preamp.

Hope that clears your doubt.

 

[omishra]

TT cartridge -> Phono Stage -> [you get Line Level audio]

[Line Level audio] -> Power Amp
[Line Level audio] -> Preamp ->Power Amp

Power Amp -> [ You get powered output] -> Speakers

preamp could be Simple buffer which will -

• not have gain or lower gain
• Volume control (s)
• [optional] Tone controls (s)
• [optional] Balance control (s)
• [optional] Multiple input to one output selector
• [optional] phono stage

Preamp (& phono stage) could be integrated with power amp and called Integrated Amp.

 

[Thad E Ginathom]

The seller told that i would need a phonostage and amp. I am little confused. Is phonostage same as pre-amp?

There are two things about vinyl/LPs that you should understand:

1. The voltage output by a turntable cartridge is very tiny compared to "line level" devices such as CD players. It needs extra amplification before it can be fed into a line-level RCA input on your amplifier --- except, as mentioned by jls001, where your amp has an input marked phono, which means that it already has a phono stage built in.

2. You cannot listen to the "raw" sound from an LP. If you try, all you will hear is thin, high-frequency noise. The sound has been doctored this way, according to pre-determined formula, to make LP recording and playback physically possible. This sound needs to be passed through an equaliser that reverses the changes made before recording. This process is known as RIAA Equalisation

A Phono pre-amp, sometimes called a phono stage, accomplishes both of these absolutely necessary functions, amplification and equalisation. It used to be commonly built in to amplifiers, because most amplifier buyers had a turntable: now they do not, so amplifier makers do not waste their money on it and it has to be bought as an extra box.

Sometimes, it is built in to the turntable, but usually on lower-end models.

 

[Saket]

Thank you guys for such detailed explanations. Let me ask in this perspective:

TT> Preamp> Amp> Speakers.
Will it work? because I am planning to get a HTS & a tt. So if the above works then I would only need a Pre-amp. Because in the place i live, it is hard to find a phonostage for turntables. So what kind of amplification would be required in between the tt & HTS (considering it doesnt have a phono input).
I have 2 philips (stereo) & 2 HMV turntables but they all have inbuilt amps.
Sorry for being so novice.
Thanks & regards.

 

[reubensm]

Hi Saket, welcome to the wonderful world of vinyl.

Generally, any amplifier for audio listening consists of 2 sections, a power amplifier for amplifying sound to loud levels and a preamplifier for controlling the tonal quality of sound and prospective matching with various input sources like CD, Tape, Tuner, Turntable, etc. The input selector, bass and treble controls normally form a part of the preamplifier.

A phonostage is the specialized front-end of a preamplifier for use specifically with turntables for playing vinyl records. During the prime days (so-called) of vinyl in the past, amplifiers used to have built in phonostages. However these have been dropped from modern amplifiers and AVRs to keep costs down (as the manufacturers assumed that turntables were not in vogue anymore).

Yes, you would need a phonostage for your turntable. However please note the following.

When you say home theatre, I assume you'd be using an Audio/Video receiver. Most of these receivers do not have a phono input (except for some high-end ones). Hence you'll require a phonostage. You'll have to connect your turntable to the input of the phonostage and its output should go to an input on your AVR. It is as simple as that.

Some integrated amps, especially the older ones, have a built in phono stage. If you use such amps, you wont need to get a separate phonostage for your TT. Also, some of the modern cheaper TTs come with inbuilt phonostages which are usually cheap and not worth listening to. Your Technics SL Q33 does not have an inbuilt phonostage.

Phonostages are important primarily because of 2 reasons (to put them in lay-man's terms):

1) Gain (voltage amplification)
2) Equalization

As the gain of our Turntable's cartridge is very low, its feeble output voltage has to be amplified to some extent before your amplifier can get down to using the signal. A phonostage does this.

Also, grooves on your vinyl LP is cut using equalization standards laid down by RIAA. This equalization works on the principle of pre-emphasis on recording and de-emphasis on playback. A recording is made with the low frequencies reduced (as low frequencies require larger grooves on the LP, which will result in less space for the actual recording) and the high frequencies boosted, and on playback the opposite occurs. The net result is a flat frequency response for your amplifiers tone control to work with. You can read about this further at RIAA equalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
All the very best.

Thanks, Reuben

Hello Guys,

I am planning to get a used technics turntable- SL-Q33. The seller told that i would need a phonostage and amp. I am little confused. Is phonostage same as pre-amp? WOuld the technics not be having its own pre-amp or adding a preamp is necessary to the player to feed it to amp?
SO overall, i am a little confused that what equipments i would need to play music on the turntable.
I was initially planning to buy this turntable and a home theatre (or speaker system) to play my lps. But now i am confused that what will I need overall. Please help.

THanks in advance,
Saket.

 

[reubensm]

TT>Preamp>Poweramp>speakers is the right sequence. However this will work only if your preamp has a phono input

Phono stages are quite simple to build. Low-end phono stages can be assembled with a few spare components. All you'll need apart from some readily available components is about an hour of free time to spare.

Thank you guys for such detailed explanations. Let me ask in this perspective:

TT> Preamp> Amp> Speakers.
Will it work? because I am planning to get a HTS & a tt. So if the above works then I would only need a Pre-amp. Because in the place i live, it is hard to find a phonostage for turntables. So what kind of amplification would be required in between the tt & HTS (considering it doesnt have a phono input).
I have 2 philips (stereo) & 2 HMV turntables but they all have inbuilt amps.
Sorry for being so novice.
Thanks & regards.

 

[Saket]

Thanks Reuben for this wonderful post. I got it clearly. Yes, I would be using line-in connection in HTS or speaker system. That means getting a Phonostage now. Can you suggest some good & reasonably priced phonostage and source.

Thanks,
Saket.

 

[reubensm]

Nice to know that you've got the understanding now. It is that simple. However, by now you may have realized why we are so crazy after vinyl and TTs. There's a lot more to it than just playing a CD or a Tape.

There is one more step of understanding that you need to take before you can decide on a phonostage.

An important factor in determining what phonostage would work well for you is the type of cartridge used by your TT. There are basically 3 types available:

1) Ceramic or Crystal Cartridges
2) Moving Magnet Cartridges
3) Moving Coil Cartridges

Ceramic cartridges were very popular in India in the 1960s, 1970s and early 1980s as they were less expensive. These days Moving Magnet Cartridges are the most poplular ones and your Technics SLQ33 is likely to have one. Moving Coil cartridges are generally high-end in not just performance but cost of ownership as well

Moving Magnet Cartridge phonostages are easy to accquire. You can buy them in India and outside India on Ebay.Com. However I must warn you that prices of phonostages are exhorbidantly priced if purchased in India.

examples of low-end to moderate phonostages available in India on ebay.in

phono preamp | eBay

example of moderate phonostages available in India on technoguru.in

Phono Pre-Amp - Techno-Guru - Online Electronics Store

examples of phonostages available overseas on eBay.com (check for shipping to India)

phono preamplifier | eBay

You can easily note the price difference between eBay and Indian sites. However the Indian ones may come with warranty and local shipping, while the ones on Ebay would be subject to correct informaiton provided by the seller. Also international shipping costs are high (and duties may be applicable if the price is beyond limits)

If you are interested in a simple build, check this out:

http://www.hifivision.com/phono-turntables/20115-batery-powered-diy-cnc-phono-stage.html

Hope these help.

Thanks

Thanks Reuben for this wonderful post. I got it clearly. Yes, I would be using line-in connection in HTS or speaker system. That means getting a Phonostage now. Can you suggest some good & reasonably priced phonostage and source.

Thanks,
Saket.

 

[Saket]

Thanks again friend,
The indian phono starts at about 3k...looks high for a simple phono. will do some more research on the pricing thing. Somebody in pune quoted me 2.5k for one of them...let me chk with him about the specs.
Thanks again,
Saket

 

[reubensm]

If you put out a "Wanted" notification in the classifieds section of our forum, fellow forum members would definitely step in to help. There are a few phonostages changing hands on the forum so you may turn lucky as well.