conversation with a shop person for HT shopping

[kannan_r]

Shop Person) What HT setup combination, you are planning to buy ?
Me) My Budget is 70K and my requirement is to have a complete HDMI setup in LCD,DVD & 5.1 HT :yahoo:
I have already shortlisted these models,

• Denon DHT 390xp (30K),
• Full HD LG LF 20 LCD TV 33 inch (33K),
• HDMI Philips DVD 3388 (5K)

Shop Person) But, Denon 390 has only HDMI Pass-through feature.
(the confusion started here only)

Q1, Me) By the way,what is this HDMI Pass-through stuff ?
Shop Person) When you play songs through HDMI DVD player, Denon 390 can produce an HD audio output, but when you play videos, you wont get high-resolution audio.

Q2, Me) You mean to say that, the HD audio signal is simply left untouched by Denon 390 when I play my Spiderman & Jurasic Park ?
Shop Person) Yes, when you play movies, only your Full HD LCD tv can produce HD video output because of your HDMI cable. But for your audio you have to run a optical fiber cable / Coaxial cable to the 5.1 receiver.

Q3, Me) I see, can an optical fiber connection / Coaxial cable connection from DVD to 5.1 receiver can match HDMI audio ?
Shop Person) Coaxial cable is good, fiber connection is better, HDMI is the best,

Q4, Me) That sucks. Look, when I see movies, I want both HD audio + HD video . Don't want to compromise either of these. So what I should do?
Shop Person) Better buy a 5.1 AV Receiver which supports both HD Video & HD audio, but dont faint after hearing the 5.1 price.
Me) Then hold on, my plan is to buy all three for this budget and not just 5.1 HDMI Receiver alone.

Q5, Me, I never gave up)Can't I simply plug an HDMI cable from my DVD to TV and another HDMI cable from my DVD to Denon and allow the receiver to send my 5.1 audio to the speakers?
Shop Person, slightly irritated) No, any HDMI DVD Player has only one HDMI output which is rightly reserved for tv when you play movies.

Q6, Me, with hesitation) Don't we have any other branded high end DVD Player which has 2 HDMI output ports (one for LCD tv & the other for 5.1 receiver) ? :argue:
Shop Person, fully irritated) No way.

Friends,
Please let me know,

• if the shop person is misleading me somewhere,
• whether his ratings is correct for Q3 question,
• and also a good solution to my Q6 question :sad:

:signthankspin:

 

[ashishkesarwani]

Shop Person) What HT setup combination, you are planning to buy ?
Me) My Budget is 70K and my requirement is to have a complete HDMI setup in LCD,DVD & 5.1 HT :yahoo:
I have already shortlisted these models,

• Denon DHT 390xp (30K),
• Full HD LG LF 20 LCD TV 33 inch (33K),
• HDMI Philips DVD 3388 (5K)

Shop Person) But, Denon 390 has only HDMI Pass-through feature.
(the confusion started here only)
Q1, Me) By the way,what is this HDMI Pass-through stuff ?
Shop Person) When you play songs through HDMI DVD player, Denon 390 can produce an HD audio output, but when you play videos, you wont get high-resolution audio.
Q2, Me) You mean to say that, the HD audio signal is simply left untouched by Denon 390 when I play my Spiderman & Jurasic Park ?
Shop Person) Yes, when you play movies, only your Full HD LCD tv can produce HD video output because of your HDMI cable. But for your audio you have to run a optical fiber cable / Coaxial cable to the 5.1 receiver.
Q3, Me) I see, can an optical fiber connection / Coaxial cable connection from DVD to 5.1 receiver can match HDMI audio ?
Shop Person) Coaxial cable is good, fiber connection is better, HDMI is the best,
Q4, Me) That sucks, look, when I see movies, I want both HD audio + HD video . Don't want to compromise either of these. So what I should do?
Shop Person) Better buy a 5.1 AV Receiver which supports both HD Video & HD audio, but dont faint after hearing the 5.1 price.
Me) Then hold on, my plan is to buy all three for this budget and not just 5.1 HDMI Receiver alone.
Q5, Me, I never gave up)Can't I simply plug an HDMI cable from my DVD to TV and another HDMI cable from my DVD to Denon and allow the receiver to send my 5.1 audio to the speakers?
Shop Person, slightly irritated) No, any HDMI DVD Player has only one HDMI output which is rightly reserved for tv when you play movies.
Q6, Me, with hesitation) Don't we have any other high end branded DVD Player which has 2 HDMI output ports? :argue:
Shop Person, fully irritated) No way.

Friends,
Please let me know, if the shop person is misleading me somewhere and also a good solution to my Q6 question .:sad:


:signthankspin:

In this case the shop person is not misleading you and its right that the particular model of the denon has only HDMI passthrough which means exactly the shop person told you, and denon in question here is not capable of decoding or recieving HD audio here. As earlier suggested you should look for the better models from the likes of Onkyo or any other brand to go through the HD route.

 

[kannan_r]

The above poster knows a source for a Denon 1910 @ 36-38K which is a suitable receiver and not much above your budget.

I enquired with a direct Denon dealer for 1910 model. He said it is 45K only for the receivers (no speakers included). With Speakers, LCD tv & DVD player, it will cross another 45K. Then I should keep a budget close to 1L.

For DVDs using the HDMI for picture and a separate digital cable for audio is perfectly acceptable, with no degradation in quality as a result of using these cables.

This statement is consoling, as I have no other choice, I think .

 

[ash147]

Hey kannan

don't be in a hurry to buy....wait for some time.go thru the posts and put ur queries to the forum.clear all ur doubts b4 u go ahead with the purchase.I'm very sure u'll get very good suggestions from other veterans also.

regards

I enquired with a direct Denon dealer for 1910 model. He said it is 45K only for the receivers (no speakers included). With Speakers, LCD tv & DVD player, it will cross another 45K. Then I should keep a budget close to 1L.


This statement is consoling, as I have no other choice, I think .

 

[kannan_r]

In this case the shop person is not misleading you and ... As earlier suggested you should look for the better models from the likes of Onkyo or any other brand to go through the HD route.

Checked with Onkyo dealer for 6200 model, he is charging 59K with speakers.

Hey kannan
don't be in a hurry to buy....wait for some time.go thru the posts and put ur queries to the forum.clear all ur doubts b4 u go ahead with the purchase.I'm very sure u'll get very good suggestions from other veterans also.
regards

Sure. Thanks bro...

 

[ashishkesarwani]

Checked with Onkyo dealer for 6200 model, he is charging 59K with speakers.

If you really bargain hard then you could get it for around 50K and Denon 1910 for 36K. Atleast here in delhi I have helped few of my friends to get Denon for this price.

 

[madbullram]

Kanan,
I would suggest you look at a system with HD audio capability which is the future. Its better to get a receiver with that capability now bcos in 2 years once it becomes a std (like DVD is now), u will not have the heart to upgrade the HT setup

 

[kannan_r]

Kanan,
I would suggest you look at a system with HD audio capability which is the future. Its better to get a receiver with that capability now bcos in 2 years once it becomes a std (like DVD is now), u will not have the heart to upgrade the HT setup

Thats true, and thats why I am trying to figure out a HD audio receiver.
Also, just for the sake of 7.1, HD receivers are crossing 50K. Are U aware of any branded 5.1 HD audio Receivers ?.

 

[doors666]

Thats true, and thats why I am trying to figure out a HD audio receiver.
Also, just for the sake of 7.1, HD receivers are crossing 50K. Are U aware of any branded 5.1 HD audio Receivers ?.

dump denon. go for yamaha rx-v 663. there is another thread somewhere here on this. I believe its available for 32-35k and has all that u need and more.
it doesnt support upscaling though, for which you can probably go for an upscaling dvd player.

 

[madbullram]

^^A quick rejoinder to the above post:

In 2 years HDMI will be relegated to a low-end interface, we're already talking 3-4 MP screens and 2MB/s audio streams with the next generations, well beyond the limit of HDMI and BD specs. BD player prices will probably take a steep fall this Christmas and by Q4/2010 will cost as much as a DVD player does today. Partnering equipment is expected to go through a similar fall, specially if the US shakes off of recession by year-end.

If you want to upgrade or add a PS3 (for example) in 3 or 6 months it's OK, but not 2 years for sure. In 2 years a receiver like the 1910 will be obsolete and todays' HD-audio will be mainstream technology, sported by even the most basic receivers. It makes little sense to block up 40K today in an AVR, when even ones at 25K in 2 years' time will have the same feature set unless you plan to deploy those features very soon (we know how often that happens though)

Like I said, it depends on your upgrade plans and how much you're prepared to spend, as well as the deals you get. Good Luck.

Edit: HD audio is 7.1, it cannot be 5.1, both technologies (DTS-Master and Dolby TrueHD) require 7.1 reproduction systems.

Kannan, those are very practical points by Cranky. Invest in good speakers which will last long long and you can look at buying a basic avr (even second hand) for now and upgrade the AVR in 1or 2 yrs time . This would be the best option if you like upgrade.

However, I have friends who dont find the difference between HD Audio and Regular Dolby/DTS as ground breaking. So they are not really worried about it. So they spend on the complete system now and would look at upgrading may be 5-6 yrs from now.

So you need decide which path you want to. If you are particular about HD right now then increase the budget or invest in good speaker and a basic AVR and upgrade to a better AVR later BUT speakers are the ones you should never cringe bcos they are not as changing in technology as your AVR

 

[kannan_r]

Checked with Onkyo dealer for 6200 model, he is charging 59K with speakers.

After Onkyo dealer, I checked with Hamsaveni Electronics & J.D. Electronics, for a change, surprisingly they are charging only 45K. .
I never expected 14K difference between a dealer & a shop

^^A quick rejoinder to the above post:
HD audio is 7.1, it cannot be 5.1, both technologies (DTS-Master and Dolby TrueHD) require 7.1 reproduction systems.

Oops. that's very disapointing. hmmm ...

dump denon. go for yamaha rx-v 663.

Let me check on Yamaha model parallely and thanks for the info.

Kannan, those are very practical points by Cranky. Invest in good speakers which will last long long and you can look at buying a basic avr (even second hand) for now and upgrade the AVR in 1or 2 yrs time . This would be the best option if you like upgrade.
..
So you need decide which path you want to. If you are particular about HD right now then increase the budget or invest in good speaker and a basic AVR and upgrade to a better AVR later BUT speakers are the ones you should never cringe bcos they are not as changing in technology as your AVR

So far, I was focussing and researching only on HT system which included receiver + speaker and ignored on any system if either of them comes alone. Your suggestion is altogether a different approach and for that I need to restart my R&D on speakers & receivers from the beginning (honestly, a bit tired and afraid to think abt it). However, thanks for the lead. Let us see how it goes. I will recharge myself ASAP before I start.

 

[ashishkesarwani]

However, I have friends who dont find the difference between HD Audio and Regular Dolby/DTS as ground breaking.

Here i would like to point out to really enjoy and hear the difference in the Hd Audio and normal Lossy Dolby and Dts soundtrack you also need to have capable full range speakers to actually reproduce the difference. With medicore speakers and budget setups this difference is hard to determine whereas with the advancement towards more expensive kits this difference is easily noticable. This also applies in this case too where an HTIB with Sub sat Combo won't let you enjoy the real difference between HD audio and Normal audio.

 

[madbullram]

Here i would like to point out to really enjoy and hear the difference in the Hd Audio and normal Lossy Dolby and Dts soundtrack you also need to have capable full range speakers to actually reproduce the difference. With medicore speakers and budget setups this difference is hard to determine whereas with the advancement towards more expensive kits this difference is easily noticable. This also applies in this case too where an HTIB with Sub sat Combo won't let you enjoy the real difference between HD audio and Normal audio.

We did that test when we were in US Ashish, infact we spent an entire weekend in the basement with Denon AVR (4308), trust me we had a very good setup. HD -Audio is def improvement but not ground breaking from the existing DTS. If you have a very good setup really dont see a point now to upgrade for HD-Audio, it needs to mature little bit.

But then thats our experience and its really subjective

 

[kannan_r]

Here i would like to point out to really enjoy and hear the difference in the Hd Audio and normal Lossy Dolby and Dts soundtrack you also need to have capable full range speakers to actually reproduce the difference. With medicore speakers and budget setups this difference is hard to determine whereas with the advancement towards more expensive kits this difference is easily noticable. This also applies in this case too where an HTIB with Sub sat Combo won't let you enjoy the real difference between HD audio and Normal audio.

Thats very true. It is like buying an expensive Raymonds suit but giving it to a street tailor for stitching.
Couple of months back, I started my research with :yahoo:

• Sony 390(for 20K)
• then jumped to Sony 690(for 20K)
• then jumped to Onkyo 3100(for 24K),
• then jumped to yamaha yht195 (for 26K),
• then jumped to Onkyo 3200(for 27K),
• then jumped to Denon 390 (for 30K)
• and now I am slowly sliding towards Onkyo 6200 (for 45K).

wonder where I will end. Hope I wont go any furether

The point is,even if I audition Onkyo 6200, in their showroom this 7.1 HT will blow my ears for sure . So to validate this speaker, audition alone is not sufficient.
I checked this url to know the real strength of the speaker,
ONKYO SIGHT & SOUND - INDIA
But I should accept the fact that, from the specification, I could not make it out as a novice whether the speakers is a gaint or a small mouse.
Any suggestion on speaker quality for this model after seeing this url will be much appreciated.

 

[ashishkesarwani]

The point is,even if I audition Onkyo 6200, in their showroom this 7.1 HT will blow my ears for sure . So to validate this speaker, audition alone is not sufficient.
I checked this url to know the real strength of the speaker,
ONKYO SIGHT & SOUND - INDIA
But I should accept the fact that, from the specification, I could not make it out as a novice whether the speakers is a gaint or a small mouse.
Any suggestion on speaker quality for this model after seeing this url will be much appreciated.

Generally speakers supplied with any of the HTIB are not of great quality and its just to keep the costs down but they would more than sufice your needs for now unless and untill you hear something better. Till then you could enjoy your system and gather enough funds for your next upgarde i.e swapping the HTIB supplied front channel speakers with the like of Wharfedale or others.
Seriously this excersice is endless unless and until we are truly convinced within ourselves and our needs.

 

[spirovious]

dump denon. go for yamaha rx-v 663. there is another thread somewhere here on this. I believe its available for 32-35k and has all that u need and more.
it doesnt support upscaling though, for which you can probably go for an upscaling dvd player.

Someone reported to have 663 for 29k.But if SD viewing is too imp,then Denon 1910 is better option.