DAC in Oppo 105 vs External DAC

[vivek_r]

Hi KVM,

I see you (along with a whole bunch of us by your side, for sure!), ready on top of the slippery slope ;>

A question about a DAC goes into full blown on speakers, amps (including tubes, and heaven knows then comes tube rolling), cables etc. Its like a spouse asking for whether he/she should opt for a different hairstyle (or a nose job even!), and then land up getting a brand new spouse!

Perhaps you can think what about the musical experience you want to improve, and then go about fixing it.

Or find that miracle person who has had the same system for 10 years and still is very happy listening to music, and seek advice. Otherwise, its a hobby/obsession, and surely long-term satisfaction is 6 months before we change a cable or a power chord or a....

Yes, I too want to hear the new gen R2R, NOS blah blah! Despite having a nice stereo that I listen to for hours every weekend. Them Schiit folks really market nicely!

Vivek

 

[kvm]

Very true Vivek, its indeed a slippery slope - hence am trying to be as cautious as we can control (but this 'itch' of 'improvement' still bothers you once in a while )

Am basically trying to improve the 'tonality' (again its a 'big/complex' topic with multiple factors influencing..) and of course with the great marketing campaigns/ reviews of the newer breed of electronics, its very difficult not to get swayed

 

[vivek_r]

Hi KVM, Count me in too.

Indeed, the new gen DACs supposedly do tone better by going back to the old! (Doesn't it remind you of the classic last line of Who's Next "Meet the new boss, Same as the old boss". Song aptly titled "Wont get fooled again"!).

My music listening is a lot of classical western (tone counts a lot here) and jazz, with pop and rock and electronica thrown in once in a while. If you see my signature, my whole system is oriented towards tone and midrange.

Good luck, and if you manage to pull the trigger, I have to find some way of getting to Hyderabad.

Vivek

 

[prem]

Hi KVM

Metrum Octave does tone, rhythm and pace very very well. Start and stop of the various instruments in a musical piece is superb. It's organic sounding too. Transparency, resolution and dynamics is ok but not top notch. It's way superior to the Oppo 105. Have heard both. No comparison there. The Metrum is a keeper. If you are happy with the arcam and the monitor audio, then you should be fine with a Metrum.

Also to improve tone in your current system try solid core copper cables everywhere. See if you like it

 

[sound_cycle]

Am basically trying to improve the 'tonality' (again its a 'big/complex' topic with multiple factors influencing..)

DACs are meant to neutral are they not ?

It is possible tonality at will by the way in a controllable, reliable replicable manner. no biggie.

ciao
gr

 

[prem]

Hi kvm

The Octave mk 2 model is likely to be discontinued and is presently available for 750 euros direct from Metrum

 

[vivek_r]

Hi Prem, thank you. Waiting for the release of Musette (and can then spend a few months googling for reviews!). The Musette, the sponsor claimed, was pretty close to the Hex in sound quality.

Any Metrum owners in Mumbai?

Vivek

 

[Fantastic]

I also like my TDA1541 based rotel cd player.

Is that the Rotel RCD 855 ? I still have mine. Never used for several years. Was planning to play it one of these days. Hope there is nothing wrong with it. One plastic gear for the tray used to break often. I have a spare somewhere. The replacement is made with some other material and long lasting.

I also have another TDA1541 DAC board. Have to try that again. It pays to box these 'board' DAC's ! Otherwise they get shelved due to the loose wires, supplies etc. Keep forgetting what they all sound like !

 

[kvm]

Thanks much Prem for the suggestions. Will check them out (auditions are quite difficult, though )

 

[bornfi]

I like oppo's dac. But I also like my music borderline harsh.
I also like my TDA1541 based rotel cd player.
And grant fidelity tubedac 11 which is pretty harsh even in tube setting, very digital sounding.
Cool.
Srinath.

My friend who has Oppo 105 Darbee, went for Benchmark DAC and as you must be thinking, it was better than Oppo.

 

[shibashis]

Perhaps I can throw the Emotiva Stealth DC-1 in the mix.
Emotiva claims this sounds better than many DACs more than twice its price, whether that is true or not I do not know. However, this $500 equipment has changed my music listening experience and I can not imagine going back to a time when it was not in the chain. I find it that good, I want to compare it with other DACs, hopefully soon.

 

[magma]

DACs are meant to neutral are they not ?



ciao
gr

this is absolutely spot on

DACs are actually meant to be neutral
transparent and resolving
they are ideally not supposed to add any flavour in the system chain

PRO audio DACS attempt to do exactly this
and in my personal opionions ALL dacs should do just this

tonality and flavour as far as possible should be left to the speaker and then the amplifier
rarely to the source equipment

this makes upgrades and matching easier

 

[Fantastic]

tonality and flavour as far as possible should be left to the speaker and then the amplifier
rarely to the source equipment

This might imply that DAC designers ( and also other equiment !) deliberately alter the sound quality of the DAC ( or other equipment). This isn't true. The sound quality is affected by several factors one of them being the final filter stage. They do try out their own variations and incorporate them. It could make it sound different from what one person 'perceives' as 'neutral' or 'correct'.
However it isn't 'designed into it'. It's just how that implementation sounds. The target is always to make it sound neutral/transparent......as much as possible !

 

[vijwilso]

Hi KVM

Metrum Octave does tone, rhythm and pace very very well. Start and stop of the various instruments in a musical piece is superb. It's organic sounding too. Transparency, resolution and dynamics is ok but not top notch. It's way superior to the Oppo 105. Have heard both. No comparison there. The Metrum is a keeper. If you are happy with the arcam and the monitor audio, then you should be fine with a Metrum.

Also to improve tone in your current system try solid core copper cables everywhere. See if you like it

Also it scale up even high with the good re-clocker . had an opportunity to try out with a good converter - the micro details and refinement was better with the better clock - I think Oppo as transport was also very good - but it was not a side-by-side comparison. Also you also need to have a good amplification to bring out the lower octave rhythm , trust me - it is very addictive .

The best combination for me so far was with the DAC connected directly to the older Bryston power amps and control the volume in the digital domain . The overall result was very holographic/really hifi and sounded like a setup in a much higher price segment .

 

[SatMumbai]

As previously suggested, I think changing to a different set of speakers will offer more noticeable changes.

I had gone through several DACs / processors and do not want to throw in all the names here but Oppo 105 is pretty much in the top range as far as DACs go which means it is very neutral. The presentation keeps changing as per the system but as I said earlier, the amount of difference a speaker can make to the SQ is so much that a well implemented DAC or amps do not make so much difference.

When I was at the peak of the hobby, I used to change DACs very often after reading the marketing materials as well as other forums but mostly it is the simplest to do. I always used to think twice to touch speakers or entertain thoughts in that direction.

 

[kvm]

SatMumbai.. it was one of your posts/ reviews of Oppo 105 that prompted me to pick one.. thanks

Well, speaker/amp change obviously impacts SQ but as mentioned earlier is not an easy task with both investment and current setup disposal costs involved... in addition to not being able to audition enough.

While experimenting with different (mid-high) DACs did any of us find 'significant' improvement in SQ with the rest of the chain kept constant?

Though many of us tend to believe (or wish?) that DACs are meant to be neutral, various implementations (various chips, R2R, USB isolation, FPGA etc.) do create a specific signature/ USP for the DAC

 

[SatMumbai]

SatMumbai.. it was one of your posts/ reviews of Oppo 105 that prompted me to pick one.. thanks

I am glad that some of my reviews are helpful. I still think that Oppo 105 is one of the very good DACs out there as I think I compared it with Classe CP-800 as well as SSP-800.
Individuals, also like a specific sound signature and I think Oppo 105 is pretty neutral, though I do not have the Oppo 105 any more. I have a Oppo HA-2 and some of the signature traits are same.
But to identify that and see if it can make a significance to a daily listening experience is subjective.
Also, down the chain components (amp & speakers) need to be much more resolving to see the differences in DACs especially above Oppo 105 onwards.

But again some people luckily are more sensitive and can differentiate better than me all nuances. Just to give an example, though I can hear more if there is small noise somewhere but my wife can resolve much better than me when she is carefully listening to a set up. She can make out the subtle differences much better than me and irony is I am into this hobby !

I hope you find a DAC that gives you the needed difference to enjoy your gear even more.