Dac shootout. Hex vs Vega vs Yggdrasil

[keith_correa]

I just think he probably used some words that he did not intend to use and that me in my OCDness tried to string 2 + 2 together and came up with something other than 4.

 

[regeHA]

The so called "bad thing" works VERY well. And if these solutions are band-aids then the world needs more band-aids.

I just think he probably used some words that he did not intend to use and that me in my OCDness tried to string 2 + 2 together and came up with something other than 4.

Actually you need to hear a galvanically isolated solution/device to really make that decision. I myself never thought anything was wrong with my PC - as a source, transport, media player and even DAC -and I was using it for like 3 years. Yet, once I heard the Raspberry Pi there was no going back... the difference was so huge in terms of electrical isolation, lowered noise floor, deeper blacks, etc.

Most folks think USB is great... and great it is when treated for electrical isolation, otherwise not so much.

Of course you can achieve the same via a PC with Foobar and UPnP/DLNA streaming... but you'll need a wireless renderer in place.

 

[square_wave]

I just think he probably used some words that he did not intend to use and that me in my OCDness tried to string 2 + 2 together and came up with something other than 4.

Sorry, I meant what I said. USB in for dacs were introduced because people wanted to use dacs along with PCs. Asynchronous USB is what made it possible. When digital file playback systems became popular a few years back, PC was the only option. Things are changing now. When playing fields become more level, other inputs / outputs will take over.

I have always seen that when people who came from the other side, meaning people with extensive experience with traditional high performance transports and Dacs experience usb playback for the first time, they end up frown on their forehead. It takes some work ( band aids ) or some very high end design to make it work well.

 

[keith_correa]

I'm still bewildered. Here's what you said:

PCs are flexible and you can do a lot of hitherto unimaginable things in the playback domain. Hence, a lot of retrofitting and band aid mechanisms are in place.

Now, this means that a lot of retrofitting (???) and band-aids are applied BECAUSE PC's are flexible and a lot of things can be done because of this flexibility which was not imaginable before. I just don't see the connection. Leave aside the faults of USB et al. or why DAC's have USB inputs. That is besides the point because EVERYTHING has it's own merits and demerits so I'm not referring to those areas at all.

 

[square_wave]

I'm still bewildered. Here's what you said:



Now, this means that a lot of retrofitting (???) and band-aids are applied BECAUSE PC's are flexible and a lot of things can be done because of this flexibility which was not imaginable before. I just don't see the connection. Leave aside the faults of USB et al. or why DAC's have USB inputs. That is besides the point because EVERYTHING has it's own merits and demerits so I'm not referring to those areas at all.

Sorry. No connection between " pc flexibility and retrofitting ".

PC playback lets you do a lot of things in the playback domain. Software choices, file choices, fliters...I can go on..

This makes it very desirable as a source. For such flexibility, it was the only option a few years back.

The manufacturers saw the opportunity. Now what do you do ? Assync USB DAC was the answer for marrying high end audio playback with PCs.
USB was not meant for audio at all. An AES engineer will climb a wall if someone told him to use usb for audio a few years back. If you saw my second post I said, band aids or high end design. For usb to sound really good, you need aftermarket products or buy $$$$$ dacs with extreme attention to usb playback chain.

In the recent past, we have seen an emergence of high end streamers, custom made devices for file playback on the shelves. It is only a matter of time before these kinds of custom devices with different connectivity options which are more desirable for audio take over from usb.

But surely, emerging market landscapes will make sure USB will continue to have a market share due to wide and varied demographics that are doing high end audio in their myriad ways. This is a very different trend from yesteryears where high end audio used to be limited to one or two exclusive methods. Times are a changin

 

[keith_correa]

Sorry. No connection between " pc flexibility and retrofitting ".

Thanks! I'm no longer confused. Now back to our regular comparison post and sorry for the OT posts.

 

[vivek_r]

Hello, sorry Prem, FM, one more diversion from this post.

Went on a family holiday to Japan (thanks ANA!), and had to pick up hifi and CDs (duty!)! With a lot of other stuff, picked up a multibit DAC, called RATOC RAL-24192DM1

RATOC Systems, Inc.

Am really happy with this. So happy that I bought another one subsequently!! What in heavens will I do with my Line Magnetic DAC, I don't know. There is something in a NOS DAC that is beguiling (ok, ok, its all in the implementation ) - this DAC is organic, detailed without being etched, and flowing.

Sorry for diversion from this thread, but creating a new thread for this product did not make sense - it is no longer being produced, and I was fortunate to be able to get two.

I posted this and took it off many times, saying let it stand the test of time! But then, how soon is now?!

Sorry, and awaiting more from Prem.

Vivek

 

[square_wave]

@ Vivek, How are you managing the voltage with the Japanese dac ? Converter ?

 

[panditji]

Is it more detailed than the Line Magnetic?

 

[vivek_r]

Hello,

It has a jumper that takes it to 240v.

Panditji, rather than use the word detailed, it is fair to say it is more transparent.

Just to reiterate, my audio priorities are full tone, ability to bring out timbal differences (is that my way of saying transparent?), articulation, foot tapping, butt shaking flow and low sibilance.

Much lower on priority list and happy to compromise includes slam, or even deepest bass (compact 7 and graham ls5/9 bass are good enough), sound staging, brilliant macro dynamics or a high level of detail.

Natalie in Charlie's Angel says beautifully what I want from my system "Eduardo, move me"!

 

[vivek_r]

Sorry, just one more important thought - when Panditji asked whether it was more detailed than the LM DAC, my mind thought of answers as to how the RATOC was better.

In many ways, in this hobby of ours, it may not be about better or not, but about different. I may have liked strawberry ice cream once, and dark chocolate ice cream now - like that.

With the LM I have changed tubes to better quality ones, and the sound is still one that I like with good oomph! It is also a worth exploring DAC indeed.

Vivek

 

[prem]

I have now moved from external HD to an internal SSD on my Aries mini. As a result, transparency and resolution have gone up a wee bit. More importantly I was experiencing a bit of thickness in the mids which has now reduced a bit

 

[prem]

Tried a few power cords yesterday. Now it's a toss up between the 18 AWG stranded power cord that came with Yggy and the 18 AWG solid core power cord from Rethm. The stranded is a bit more punchier but the Rethm is more refined and offers a bit more clarity

 

[prem]

Yesterday Rikhav had come over to listen to the Yggy. We tried the solid core as well as the stranded power cord on the Yggy. Both of us clearly preferred the stranded power cord which came with the dac.

Rikhav had also got the Schuman resonator over to try at my place. While at his place it had improved detail and transparency, at my place it messed up the sound. It smoothened the sound and killed the micro dynamics. Next we tried the ASI resonator. This too messed up the sound. Treble got highlighted and the stage became two dimensional

All in all it was an interesting evening. Thanks Rikhav for getting the Schuman resonator over

 

[rikhav]

Hi
Yes I could see and hear the yggadrasil
Its a huge dac, maybe as big as buget amplifiers. Pictures don't depict its size correctly. The sheet metal is also very thick. Over all massive built
Now without getting into technical specifications of the dac, the yggadrasil sounds on the same lines as of prems analogue rig. That is actually very good knwong how good prems analogue rig sounds
What I mean is there is no compete chnage of sound signature between the dac and the EMT. Both are cut from the same cloth but the EMT was several notches above when it comes to realism of sound
For someone who may not have heard prems latest setup comprising of the EMT, the new amp and saadhnas version 3, it sounds no where close to typical sound associated with tube amps, TT and full range speakers
The sound is fast, open and very very transparent. But along with all these traits its also very very musical.
The sound is so transparent that someone like me who is not so capable In judging sound could easily detect changes in sound with the change of power cables and when resonators were installed

So overall the dac gels very well with prems setup and keeps intact the actual sound signature of the setup

But once I heard the EMT after hearing the DAC for good 45 mins, my eyes just popped out. Yggadrasil, which was sounding very good just few minutes ago sounded pale and 2 dimensional in front of the EMT
The musicality in the sound of EMT was just at another level.
This was first time I heard a very good analogue and a digital source in well tuned amp and speaker.
No way yggadrasil sounded bad on its own. Infact it was very musical as I have mentioned earlier in the post but only until you hear the EMT

 

[prem]

As Rikhav mentioned, it's a waste of time comparing the Yggdrasil to the EMT. The EMT is way superior. More transparency, more resolution, more organic, better tone and timbre, way better dynamics, better staging, way more dimensional. It pretty much thrashed the Yggy on every parameter. But having said that the Yggy is a nice dac and delivers way above its price. Since I got into digital to listen to albums not available on vinyl, it's kind of a perfect addition to my set up

Ever since the Berning amp had come, I could never really get my system to sing. Had to do a lot of fine adjustments especially in terms of placement and crossover levels to get the system singing. It took me a couple of months to get it right. Yesterday Rikhav was the first person on the forum to hear my system after it was set up correctly.

 

[music4mhell]

As Rikhav mentioned, it's a waste of time comparing the Yggdrasil to the EMT. The EMT is way superior. More transparency, more resolution, more organic, better tone and timbre, way better dynamics, better staging, way more dimensional. It pretty much thrashed the Yggy on every parameter. But having said that the Yggy is a nice dac and delivers way above its price. Since I got into digital to listen to albums not available on vinyl, it's kind of a perfect addition to my set up

Ever since the Berning amp had come, I could never really get my system to sing. Had to do a lot of fine adjustments especially in terms of placement and crossover levels to get the system singing. It took me a couple of months to get it right. Yesterday Rikhav was the first person on the forum to hear my system after it was set up correctly.

Life after Yggdrasil?

A good comparison with table.

 

[prem]

Music4mhell, I have been following that thread. There it's more a comparison of various dacs. The turntables being compared in that thread are very few. Moreover there's no really direct comparison with tables. Further those guys primarily use headphones for listening.

Even with a basic turntable, Torq finds listening to vinyl very enjoyable. So much so that he now wants to get a high end turntable. He even mentions that his enthusiasm for another dac has slightly dampened after he started listening to vinyl again.

 

[arj]

Ever since the Berning amp had come, I could never really get my system to sing. Had to do a lot of fine adjustments especially in terms of placement and crossover levels to get the system singing. It took me a couple of months to get it right. Yesterday Rikhav was the first person on the forum to hear my system after it was set up correctly.

[emoji41] I heard it when it was "not" setup and only with the EMT but the transparency and dynamics were something to die for.

It would be educational for anyone in Mumbai to hear it just to get a feel as to how to Optimise a system and get it to synergise with a room and that if you feel something is not right it does not necessarily mean that the component is not right, just that some effort needs to be put in integrating it [emoji122]




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[nandac]

Natalie in Charlie's Angel says beautifully what I want from my system "Eduardo, move me"!

though i have owned pricier systems, the only system that was a pleasure to listen to was a old battered musical fidelity b1 amp paired with b&w lm1 speakers hooked to a cheap nad cd player.