DacMagic MK2 - Review

Re: DacMagic MK2 - Arrived

Thanks for review-

What I gained,
So 63KI was very close to DM(as single player)
PS2 + DM had best results.

63SE KI : Yes for now, bcos I tested only Tamil movie songs, yet to test Wind instruments, proper string instruments, good recordings etc. Thats it s a quick review but soemtime when you do a detailed review, things do change ;)

PS2 + DM = Oppo + DM :)
 
Re: DacMagic MK2 - Arrived

63SE KI : Yes for now, bcos I tested only Tamil movie songs, yet to test Wind instruments, proper string instruments, good recordings etc. Thats it s a quick review but soemtime when you do a detailed review, things do change ;)

PS2 + DM = Oppo + DM :)

Thanks,

Pls try some Hindi music too.
 
Re: DacMagic MK2 - Arrived

Thanks a ton for those reviews. I had just one concern:

DM + CD48: The difference btw this and a standalone CD48 was in gain (vloume), depth of instruments, and bass was more tight.

DM + Oppo: Well not a night and day difference but never the less difference enough which lets you enjoy the music bcos of gain in volume, clarity, depth of bass. Infact, my wife and venkat's wife instantly enjoyed what played via Oppo and DM.

Not to be churlish....but should a DAC be providing any gain at all? Is that normal? And from what i understand even a gain of 1 dB can colour your perception of the sound and make it sound better, quoting John Atkinson measuring the musical fidelity X10D tube buffer at Stereophile: Home Page

"...the Musical Fidelity does have a small amount of gain: 0.98dB. Despite MK's protestations, I feel this is large enough to cast doubt on any comments made about the unit's sound quality without this gain being compensated for. The X-10D won't necessarily sound louder, but, all things being equal, it might well sound more present, more detailed, more dynamic."

In such a case, would you guys be able to ensure with an SPL meter that SPL levels are uniform (or did you already do that?) if you're doing any more tests/comparisons? Sorry to sound like I am rewarding your wonderful work by asking for more work, but I guess being an audio geek is a recipe for this kind of impoliteness.
 
Cant comment on that Psycho. I dont have SPL meter etc

Mine is purely based on what i enjoy and what my ears and heart love, and when my foot taps and when the external environment vanishes and I am transported to the recording room :)

May be a high end system will show these clearly but with my system this was the first take :)

Btw: I have never been game for all these instruments etc all my life. For me what I hear is what matters irrespective of what these instruments tell me :) end of the day I think thats what matters. Infact, a classic example of how personality influences music taste is, when the guitar was played (Nenjukkul peithidum song) via DM, I could hear the guitarist moving his fingers (dont know the technical term) across strings and I could hear creek sound of it. Now for me this was so clear when using the DM and was irritating :) but VenkatCR tells me purist love to hear these :) for me DM is somewhat a irritant bcos its brings out these things :)

But when we do the DAC Shootout, we can do this I have no problems whatsoever :) Soon opening a thread for DAC shootout with Cool's Bresford, Vortex HTPC, My DM :)
 
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Re: DacMagic MK2 - Arrived

DM + PS2: WOW!!!! I was stunned, bcos I never considered PS2 as a transport. We did play the DM with Pioner and the music was crappy but with PS2 it was better than SE63

Great Shoot out.

This looks really interesting. so the PS2 is not too bad a transport ?
 
Re: DacMagic MK2 - Arrived

Thanks a ton for those reviews. I had just one concern:



Not to be churlish....but should a DAC be providing any gain at all? Is that normal? And from what i understand even a gain of 1 dB can colour your perception of the sound and make it sound better, quoting John Atkinson measuring the musical fidelity X10D tube buffer at Stereophile: Home Page

"...the Musical Fidelity does have a small amount of gain: 0.98dB. Despite MK's protestations, I feel this is large enough to cast doubt on any comments made about the unit's sound quality without this gain being compensated for. The X-10D won't necessarily sound louder, but, all things being equal, it might well sound more present, more detailed, more dynamic."

In such a case, would you guys be able to ensure with an SPL meter that SPL levels are uniform (or did you already do that?) if you're doing any more tests/comparisons? Sorry to sound like I am rewarding your wonderful work by asking for more work, but I guess being an audio geek is a recipe for this kind of impoliteness.

Well from what I have seen every component has a different gain so when you compare some amount of volume control is necessary to bring it to the same level of detail.
SPL meter would be much more objective..but doing a "by the ear" also works very well.
basically even if it does add a gain..there is nothing bad about it . The only problem with more gain cold be if you have very sensitive speakers ..in that case your volume control would run at the 3-5 o-clock spot which is really low !
 
Hello Ram,

Good review.

If the shoot out is planned well may be I can also send my diy tda1541a dac.

rgds,
Venu
 
Re: DacMagic MK2 - Arrived

hey ARJ, i agree that gain is not a problem per se, but when comparing the sound with and without a component, which is supposed to be line-level, then gain can cause some inaccuracy in your comparison for the reasons i had quoted. And as John Atkinson said even in the absence of perceived loudness (the hearing test) a slight gain can make a difference to the perceived quality of sound. Since this was a comparison test of with and without the component, the gain aspect would be critical to understand how good it is in terms of pure sound quality.

Well from what I have seen every component has a different gain so when you compare some amount of volume control is necessary to bring it to the same level of detail.
SPL meter would be much more objective..but doing a "by the ear" also works very well.
basically even if it does add a gain..there is nothing bad about it . The only problem with more gain cold be if you have very sensitive speakers ..in that case your volume control would run at the 3-5 o-clock spot which is really low !
 
The louder one will always sound more impressive........ funny though!! although that louder unit may not be necessarily better, in fact, on the contrary.

Couldn't agree with you more. The loudness war is recently getting a lot of criticism. Hope things would improve for good in the near future since more music lovers are depending on quality downloads from reputed labels or the likes of hugely popular HDtracks directly rather than sticking with CDs.

YouTube - Loudness War Educational Video
 
Re: DacMagic MK2 - Arrived

hey ARJ, i agree that gain is not a problem per se, but when comparing the sound with and without a component, which is supposed to be line-level, then gain can cause some inaccuracy in your comparison for the reasons i had quoted. And as John Atkinson said even in the absence of perceived loudness (the hearing test) a slight gain can make a difference to the perceived quality of sound. Since this was a comparison test of with and without the component, the gain aspect would be critical to understand how good it is in terms of pure sound quality.

Hey I do agree with you that gain can cause a perception of more clarity/detail and Bass (in fact I have the X-10D and i did notice it as well). was just making a point that if one is conscious of it, it can be adjusted for "by ear" but yes it is an important aspect to keep in mind during comparisons..
 
@all: I get the gain point, infact I dont like to hear music at high volume. In my house when doing the ps2/wd/ etc, I ensured when DM was played, I had reduced the volume to the level of CD 63 and CD 48.

Again, these were simple quick test I did :) So in the shoot out lets get these parameters evaluated.

AE: U are so true, so many times I had run away from loud systems!!!

Psy: Do you have the meter so we can do a proper check in pour dac setup

GVenu: That will be so super, will u be coming over to chennai?
 
Some nice work being done to help the whole community evaluate DACs as a whole. Kudos to Ram and Venkat for making this happen.
 
Reading Madbull's account of what we did on Sunday reminded me of my favourite heroine - Modesty Balise.

One of The Modesty Balise's comic strips is a story called The Galley Slaves. In this Modesty and Willie Garvin get so bored in a cruise ship that they actually jump off the ship to survive all by themselves in the ocean. They land on a small island near Papeete in Tahiti. As they settle down in the island, they stumble on a film shooting that is using a old sailing ship called Trireme that has three rows of large oars on both sides. In the olden days, these oars were pulled by slaves. When they all reach civilisation, they arrive in the middle of a major action by the CIA who are tracing the theft of a new telemetry system for submarines that has been stolen. All shipping lanes have been blocked and the US Navy is searching everything and everyone. The only ship that is allowed free run is the Trireme. The thief ends up using that ship and the whole film crew to try to take the telemetry section out. Modesty and Willie land on the ship, are captured, and used as slaves on the oars alongwith all the other crew members. In her typical style, Modesty uses the untrained crew to overcome the crooks and saves the day. When they all return to Papeete, the local CIA chief is very curious as to what happened. She replies, 'we were all in chains, rowing, then we got loose, and we won'. The film director who was part of the whole fight bursts out laughing, 'Honey', he says', 'don't ever try writing a movie. You kill a story dead as frozen meat'.

Yesterday, (20 Dec 2009) MadbullRam and his beautiful wife Vandana landed at my place for lunch. Ram brought along a CA DACMagic 2 MK II, some cables, banana plugs, and a 2003/2004 NAD C350 amplifier. I was looking to purchase a second hand amplifier as a standby till I get my hands on a unit I like and can afford. I was, in any case, starting to build a secondary system for my bedroom that terminates a Worldspace. I thought if I liked this NAD, I could use it there with a pair of bookshelves.

Ram was very eager to test the DAC. This was a very short review for two reasons. One the auditioning was really short as we had just a couple of hours. Secondly, my wife Charu and Vandana decided to join us in the room, and you know what happens when two women meet. Ram also wanted to try out his new Belden 5000UE speakers cables. The thing was too damn stiff and it took me nearly half an hour cutting the required lengths, stripping the ends and inserting them in banana plugs. Very strange. This is the first time I have come across multi strand cables that are as stiff as a thick single core.

Anyhow after finishing that, we removed the Oppo from it's place on the rack, and placed it on top of the DACMagic. We had to do this as the fibre optic cable was just two feet long. The optical cable was from Cambridge Audio that came with the DAC. The interconnects from the DAC to the amplifier were BJC LC-1.

Before we started with the Oppo, we were curious to see if the Pioneer 696 could be used as a source. At first we heard nothing. Ram and I were both looking at each other when we both realised the Digital Out must be set to 'Off'. We set that to 'on', and as Ram mentioned, with the DAC, the Pioneer sounded extremely high pitched and harsh. We hurriedly disconnected the unit and I mentally decided to look for an answer leisurely some other time. The Pioneer cannot be this bad. I must have done something wrong.

Anyhow back to the Oppo. We connected the NAD C350 to the Audire IO2s using Ram's Belden 5000UE preparing which I had really shed blood. Here are two photos of the messy set up. The first shows the DacMagic, The Oppo 983 and the NAD C350. The second shows the electronics connected to the Audire IO2 speakers.

dmopponad.jpg


electronicsspeakers.jpg


We first connected the Oppo directly to the NAD, popped in a copy of Varnam Ayiram and jumped staright to song No. 2 - Nenjikkul Peidhidhum Maamalai. I know it is a little unfair to use a Tamil film song, but both Ram and I are completely smitten by the song. To those unfamiliar with the song, it is soft romantic number sung by Colonial Brother's Hariharan. The song starts with a gentle strumming of the guitar for a few seconds till a regular beat is set by the guitar. In the title words, there are no drums and Hariharan is supported only by the guitar and a soft chorus. Both stanzas have gentle drumming and I am sure electronics drums were used as there is an artificiality to their sound. Both stanzas are also supported by a low key 'chik, chik' sound, something like a clock ticking at high speed. At the end of the second stanza, there is a very low key flute played in the background that kind of steps away from the stage after just a couple of seconds. The song is ended by a gentle chorus repeating the main words. Since the background music is really background, Hariharan's voice is usually very clear and you can hear every note change that he toys with.

With the Oppo connected directly to the NAD, the playback was mesmirizing enough for Ram to close his eyes in pleasure. Hariharan's voice was very clear, and none of the supporting instruments nor chorus intruded. We could hear every instrument and hear the changes in Hariharan's voice. We were playing the song at low volume - possibly at around 60dB. We then disconnected the NAD and played the song through the Onkyo 875. I particualrly wanted to get a second opinion as I was quite concerned about Subash saying all AVRs were 'crap'. When I asked Ram, all he could was shake his head and say 95 / 100. Meaning if you give 100 points to a two channel amp, the AVR will get 95. I was ready to live with that. I had felt the same even when comparing the 875 with the Cayin tube amp. I really wonder what Subash is doing in terms of connections, or what he bases his conclusions upon.

We then connected the 'Audio Out' of the DAC to the NAD amplifier, ensured that the Digital Out of Oppo was set to 'Raw' and played the song again. Immediately two things became apparent. One was what we, for want of a better word, termed as increase in gain. Second was a decidedly larger amount of clarity in the mids as well larger space between the instruments. The Oppo was sending the data at a sampling rate of 48KHz. The phrase 'increase in gain' may have been a wrong choice of words. Look at the comparative specs of the two products:

1. Oppo 983
Frequency: 20Hz - 20kHz (1dB)
Signal-to-Noise Ratio: >100dB
Total Harmonic Distortion: < 0.01%

2. DACMagic 2 MkII
Frequency: 4Hz to 20 Hz +/-0.5dB
Signal to Noise Ratio : greater than 110 dB
Total Harmonic Distortion (typical): less than 0.005% at 1 kHz
Channel separation: greater than 130dB at 20kHz

I think what the DACMagic did was simply a better DA conversion, less noise and less distortion. Since we were hearing the song with greater clarity, we felt the gain had gone up. This will be confirmed with a SPL meter next time we audition. The DACMagic's output level is 2.8VRMS, well within limits.

Charu and Vandana also concurred with us that through the DACMagic, the song sounded 'better'.

To highlight the capabilities of the Audire speakers, I played 'The Joy Of Life' from Kenny G's Breathless. The DACMagic + NAD combination brought the Audire speakers very close to the lushness that Capt. Rajesh said was the signature of the Cayin+Audire combination. The saxophone notes continued to die instantly, something that always amazes me. If you close your eyes you can literally imagine Kenny's fingers flying over the buttons as he changes the tones at a rapid pace. What an artist and what a song! I think I will want more even if I listen to The Joy of Life ten times a day.

I then played my favourite - Raindance - from Drums on Fire. Sivamani uses a vast array of percussion instruments - hang, dulcimer, drums, cymbals, gongs, dhol, ashiko, etc. Since the Audire is so fast in transients, you can hear the differences in the sounds of each of these instruments as Asher and Sivamani pound away. At the end, both Ram and Vandana were amazed that a single 5 inch driver could deliver 'so much music'. The NAD and Audire sang well together.

A DAC is certainly a value add to an musical chain. In particular if you are looking at a DVD Player or a mid level CD player, ensure it has a digital out, get a DAC and be set to enjoy some really nice music. If, like me, you are planning on digitising all you music, a well specified DAC, I think, becomes essential in the chain. Married to a good amp and good speakers, the wider delivery of frequencies as well as better sound signals will enable you to listen for long periods of time with nary a ear fatigue.

Cheers.

The DACMagic 2 Mk II Specs:

D/A Converter: Dual Philips TDA 1305 multi/single-bit hybrid
Sample Rates: 32, 44.1, 48khz, automatically traced and locked if within tolerance.
LED Indicators (7): Locked, EQ, SCMS, 32, 44.1, 48 and power on/off
Digital inputs: 3 (2 BNC Electrical, 1 Optical)
Digital outputs: 1 (BNC) S/PDIF 75ohms
Analogue outputs: 2 pairs (1 phono pair, 1 balanced pair)
Frequency range: 4Hz to 20 Hz +/-0.5dB
Total Harmonic Distortion (typical): less than 0.005% at 1 kHz
Signal to Noise Ratio : greater than 110 dB
Dynamic Range: 100dB at 1kHz
Channel separation: greater than 130dB at 20kHz
Audio output level: 2.8V RMS
Inter Channel balance: =/- 0.5dB
Power consumption: 30W
Dimensions (mm): 430w x 315d x 92h

I am also showing the rear of the DacMagic with the various connectors.

dac2rear.jpg


PS. This is a specific message for Srinisundar if he is reading. With your help, I learnt how to trick HFV to display Imageshack in decent sizes. Thanks Srini.

Cheers
 
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Gr8 post Venkat & Thanks to MBR again.
Its really suprise that Mrs.MBR's & Mrs.Venkat showed interest in HiFi :lol:
 
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