DACs that do tone and timbre right

[ajuvignesh]

@Yelamanchili manohar This is a review I came across on Amazon about SMSL D300. May be this is the one you're looking for.

 

[ZzZzZ]

@Yelamanchili manohar This is a review I came across on Amazon about SMSL D300. May be this is the one you're looking for.
View attachment 74772

Is this the same SMSL D300 DAC which was praised highly on this same forum on a dedicated thread and then sold really soon by the respected op fm of that thread ?

 

[ajuvignesh]

Is this the same SMSL D300 DAC which was praised highly on this same forum on a dedicated thread and then sold really soon by the respected op fm of that thread ?

Yes, it is the same. I am using one and I love it.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

A slight detour on my part ..

I've decided to put my new dac hunt on hold, and go for a portable audio player ( DAP). Since I travel most of the time. I felt a good DAP can be used even at home in my main 2 channel system, as well as with ear phones on the move. I've always lusted after the Astell and kern players in my younger days. So I guess it's time to finally scratch the itch .

 

[Analogous]

A slight detour on my part ..

I've decided to put my new dac hunt on hold, and go for a portable audio player ( DAP). Since I travel most of the time. I felt a good DAP can be used even at home in my main 2 channel system, as well as with ear phones on the move. I've always lusted after the Astell and kern players in my younger days. So I guess it's time to finally scratch the itch .

Hi, any updates on your DAC- DAP hunt? Reading through this thread, I could empathise with what you went through.
In many components of home audio, there is a strong positive correlation between price and performance. But in DACs, more than any other aspect of our audio system, component compatibility seems to make a far greater difference. I've heard an expensive DAC that sounded boring in one system (flat, poor dynamics, insufficient detail, etc.) come alive in another system/setup. I've also heard inexpensive DACs that are similarly system-dependent.

i don't assume that a more expensive DAC will sound better than a less expensive one. I expect the two sound different from one another, but that "different" doesn't necessarily mean "better."

So this is basically a lot of bad news. If I can't sort DACs by their relative price, then it means having to LISTEN to each and every one (and in my own system). It will also mean that I can't listen to a DAC at a showr or in a friend's system and expect it to sound the same in mine. anyone else's review of a DAC (including mine) probably is not very useful, unless he had the same system that i do…. won't hear the same results.

The idea that one can pull together a system of well-reviewed individual components and end up with a spectacular sound is also unrealistically optimistic. There's no question that such a starting point will yield a "good" sound, and possibly even a "much better than average" sound, but the vagaries of your room acoustics, your own ears and preferences, and the ability of the individual components to play nicely together all combine to make such "paperwork matching" more trouble than it's worth. You've got to go listen.

Reading through the above before posting I realised I am saying something that many FM have expressed (in different ways), but a person new to this pursuit may find it useful.

Hope you find a good one for your system soon

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

Hi, any updates on your DAC- DAP hunt? Reading through this thread, I could empathise with what you went through.
In many components of home audio, there is a strong positive correlation between price and performance. But in DACs, more than any other aspect of our audio system, component compatibility seems to make a far greater difference. I've heard an expensive DAC that sounded boring in one system (flat, poor dynamics, insufficient detail, etc.) come alive in another system/setup. I've also heard inexpensive DACs that are similarly system-dependent.

i don't assume that a more expensive DAC will sound better than a less expensive one. I expect the two sound different from one another, but that "different" doesn't necessarily mean "better."

So this is basically a lot of bad news. If I can't sort DACs by their relative price, then it means having to LISTEN to each and every one (and in my own system). It will also mean that I can't listen to a DAC at a showr or in a friend's system and expect it to sound the same in mine. anyone else's review of a DAC (including mine) probably is not very useful, unless he had the same system that i do…. won't hear the same results.

The idea that one can pull together a system of well-reviewed individual components and end up with a spectacular sound is also unrealistically optimistic. There's no question that such a starting point will yield a "good" sound, and possibly even a "much better than average" sound, but the vagaries of your room acoustics, your own ears and preferences, and the ability of the individual components to play nicely together all combine to make such "paperwork matching" more trouble than it's worth. You've got to go listen.

Reading through the above before posting I realised I am saying something that many FM have expressed (in different ways), but a person new to this pursuit may find it useful.

Hope you find a good one for your system soon

Thanks for checking @Analogous

I fully agree that listening in one's own system is the only way to judge a dac. And I still have'nt gotten one

Instead i got a streaming transport this year, and plan on getting a dac next year. But iam confused as ever. So it is very likely that i might go with a known devil from Esoteric. But too early to commit, as the required moolah is not in the pocket yet

It is all still day dreams and wishfull thinking at the moment

The only other dac that Iam willing to buy blind is a holo audio. Either a spring 3 or a May kte. Have'nt ever read one bad word about them. So lets see how things pan out

 

[fLUX]

Wanted to pitch in my 2 cents on the r2r dacs I have had the fortune of trying in my system i.e. Denafrip Ares II , Soekris 1021 R2R(#rd or 4th rev), Holo Spring 1 L1, Metrum Acoustics Jade(owned for a very short duration), Sonnet Morpheus & Audial Aya 5 . , so IMO this is how I would rate them for my chain/experience (genres of music I listen to is pretty much varied , don't listen to Carnatic, western classical , metal , electronic music). This is a very subjective take and purely based on the listening experience for DACs I owned.
i) Bass - Sonnet Morpheus ~ Audial Aya 5 > Holo Spring 1 >> Jade > Ares II > Soekris
ii) Mids (Vocal Tone) - Audial Aya 5 > Sonnet Morpheus > Jade >> Soekris > Holo Spring 1 > Ares II
iii) Mids (Forward to Recessed) - Ares II > Jade > Soekris ~ Audial Aya 5 > Sonnet Morpheus > Holo Spring 1
iv) Timbre - Audial Aya 5 ~> Sonnet Morpheus > Jade ~ Holo Spring ~ Soekris > Ares II
vi) Treble Energy/Sparkle ( Sparkly to smoothened ) - Holo Spring 1 > Audial Aya 5 > Sonnet Morpheus > Soekris > Jade >Ares II
vi) Soundstage Width & Depth - Sonnet Morpheus ~ Audial Aya 5 > Holo Spring > Soekris ~ Jade > Ares II
vii) Microdetails , Layering of instruments - Sonnet Morpheus > Audial Aya 5 ~ Holo Spring > Jade ~ Soekris > Ares II

The above observations were using a fairly resolving headphone chain and are relative to one another so the sparkly highs in r2r here might still not suffice for some and vice versa. Also goes without saying the synergy is chain dependent and there is no one size fits all for dacs.

 

[shibashis]

I was confused, so much so that I was not sure if I was actually confused. Then I started reading this thread and from confusion came illumination, as it has tended to do throughout history. That ray of light which broke through the swirling smoke of addled vision, told me ever more certainly that I remain confused, there that fact is certain.
Thank you all.

 

[Analogous]

I was confused, so much so that I was not sure if I was actually confused. Then I started reading this thread and from confusion came illumination, as it has tended to do throughout history. That ray of light which broke through the swirling smoke of addled vision, told me ever more certainly that I remain confused, there that fact is certain.
Thank you all.

Don’t be disheartened. Even Buddha took a long time to get to the point of enlightenment. As I understand it he tried everything available at that time (fasting, meditating in the Himalayan caves, seeking answers from renowned gurus of the time and more) and then one day sitting confused under a tree suddenly “he knew / realised…it’s all about our own thoughts, attitudes and behaviour and nothing to do with gods, rituals or magic.

But since this is only about DACs the path ahead is likely to be filled with gyan from threads like this, going around listening to several DACs, spending hard earned cash, selling at a loss, till hopefully one lazy weekend you will find your answer shining through the smoke and mirrors and forum posts…..

 

[sachinchavan 15865]

I was confused, so much so that I was not sure if I was actually confused. Then I started reading this thread and from confusion came illumination, as it has tended to do throughout history. That ray of light which broke through the swirling smoke of addled vision, told me ever more certainly that I remain confused, there that fact is certain.
Thank you all.

The forum is plenty of wisecracks, but this takes the cake! Guess you can take heart from the fact that we are all, sailing, rather, rocking in the same boat! Why, as per @Analogous we are also in some exalted company in human history!

Don’t be disheartened. Even Buddha took a long time to get to the point of enlightenment. As I understand it he tried everything available at that time (fasting, meditating in the Himalayan caves, seeking answers from renowned gurus of the time and more) and then one day sitting confused under a tree suddenly “he knew / realised…it’s all about our own thoughts, attitudes and behaviour and nothing to do with gods, rituals or magic.

Wonder what would be an equivalent for musical nirvana? The realisation that it’s all inside us… how we listen, feel and enjoy? That the most important ‘conversion’ is ‘in there’? I hope it’s as simple as that - because it’s what all of us did… before we turned audiophiles.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

I was confused, so much so that I was not sure if I was actually confused. Then I started reading this thread and from confusion came illumination, as it has tended to do throughout history. That ray of light which broke through the swirling smoke of addled vision, told me ever more certainly that I remain confused, there that fact is certain.
Thank you all.

In my case, frustration came out of confusion. Ten years is a long time to sit on a fence. And my back side is aching

 

[lithiumnk]

Wanted to pitch in my 2 cents on the r2r dacs I have had the fortune of trying in my system i.e. Denafrip Ares II , Soekris 1021 R2R(#rd or 4th rev), Holo Spring 1 L1, Metrum Acoustics Jade(owned for a very short duration), Sonnet Morpheus & Audial Aya 5 . , so IMO this is how I would rate them for my chain/experience (genres of music I listen to is pretty much varied , don't listen to Carnatic, western classical , metal , electronic music). This is a very subjective take and purely based on the listening experience for DACs I owned.
i) Bass - Sonnet Morpheus ~ Audial Aya 5 > Holo Spring 1 >> Jade > Ares II > Soekris
ii) Mids (Vocal Tone) - Audial Aya 5 > Sonnet Morpheus > Jade >> Soekris > Holo Spring 1 > Ares II
iii) Mids (Forward to Recessed) - Ares II > Jade > Soekris ~ Audial Aya 5 > Sonnet Morpheus > Holo Spring 1
iv) Timbre - Audial Aya 5 ~> Sonnet Morpheus > Jade ~ Holo Spring ~ Soekris > Ares II
vi) Treble Energy/Sparkle ( Sparkly to smoothened ) - Holo Spring 1 > Audial Aya 5 > Sonnet Morpheus > Soekris > Jade >Ares II
vi) Soundstage Width & Depth - Sonnet Morpheus ~ Audial Aya 5 > Holo Spring > Soekris ~ Jade > Ares II
vii) Microdetails , Layering of instruments - Sonnet Morpheus > Audial Aya 5 ~ Holo Spring > Jade ~ Soekris > Ares II

The above observations were using a fairly resolving headphone chain and are relative to one another so the sparkly highs in r2r here might still not suffice for some and vice versa. Also goes without saying the synergy is chain dependent and there is no one size fits all for dacs.

You should try hqplayer upsampling with your dacs (True NOS will yield better results). Ideal is 8x upsampling. With proper combination of filters/dither, tone & timbre can be preserved & technicalities can be improved by a good margin.

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

You should try hqplayer upsampling with your dacs (True NOS will yield better results). Ideal is 8x upsampling. With proper combination of filters/dither, tone & timbre can be preserved & technicalities can be improved by a good margin.

Hi

Yeah ive read that HQplayer upsampling with its sophisticated algorithms and noise shaping does improve the sound tremendiously. I have no doubt that it is a worth while endeavour.

But it is the extra processing power and dedicated NAA end point that have put me on the fence. Besides streaming is not my primary source, but CD is. Are there ways to feed digital coaxial out of a CD player for HQ player upsampling by any chance.

And for a computer noob like me, will it be too glitchy to live with. Ive read that upsampling itself takes anywhere from a few to 30 secs to just start playing after the conversion. If it is just plug and play and robust without dropouts, I could give it serious consideration. Thanks

 

[muralimmreddy]

You should try hqplayer upsampling with your dacs (True NOS will yield better results). Ideal is 8x upsampling. With proper combination of filters/dither, tone & timbre can be preserved & technicalities can be improved by a good margin.

Thanks for sharing your experience, have you had a chance to play with any upscalers like Mscaler (vs hqplayer)?

 

[muralimmreddy]

You should try hqplayer upsampling with your dacs (True NOS will yield better results). Ideal is 8x upsampling. With proper combination of filters/dither, tone & timbre can be preserved & technicalities can be improved by a good margin.

I have a metrum nos dac, but i have never tried oversampling, so just an ideology of nos dac does not it defeat whole point of nos dac? Since you are metrum pavane, you see it as best of both worlds?

 

[lithiumnk]

Thanks for sharing your experience, have you had a chance to play with any upscalers like Mscaler (vs hqplayer)?

There was some problem in connecting m scaler & pavane so couldn’t try. I’d still prefer hqplayer due to many reasons. Many people have compared HQP & MS on other websites.

 

[lithiumnk]

I have a metrum nos dac, but i have never tried oversampling, so just an ideology of nos dac does not it defeat whole point of nos dac? Since you are metrum pavane, you see it as best of both worlds?

I don’t see HQP upsampling as a negative. As I told earlier, both tone & timbre are preserved with improvement in technicalities. There is no artificial detail added like some DS dacs. You can read about HQP & NOS dacs pairing on audiophile style . You can contact HQP Developer for technical explanation.

 

[lithiumnk]

Hi

Yeah ive read that HQplayer upsampling with its sophisticated algorithms and noise shaping does improve the sound tremendiously. I have no doubt that it is a worth while endeavour.

But it is the extra processing power and dedicated NAA end point that have put me on the fence. Besides streaming is not my primary source, but CD is. Are there ways to feed digital coaxial out of a CD player for HQ player upsampling by any chance.

And for a computer noob like me, will it be too glitchy to live with. Ive read that upsampling itself takes anywhere from a few to 30 secs to just start playing after the conversion. If it is just plug and play and robust without dropouts, I could give it serious consideration. Thanks

You don’t need beefy cpu for PCM upsampling (8x). You can have a look at ferrum wandla dac which has HQP filters built in. You won’t need any outboard/ ext CPU to do the processing. Very easy to use. Have a look at this review https://soundnews.net/reviews/sources/dacs/ferrum-audio-wandla-dac-review-thinking-outside-the-box/

 

[Yelamanchili manohar]

You don’t need beefy cpu for PCM upsampling (8x). You can have a look at ferrum wandla dac which has HQP filters built in. You won’t need any outboard/ ext CPU to do the processing. Very easy to use. Have a look at this review https://soundnews.net/reviews/sources/dacs/ferrum-audio-wandla-dac-review-thinking-outside-the-box/

Thanks a ton for sharing the above. Will check out the same

 

[fLUX]

Thanks for sharing your experience, have you had a chance to play with any upscalers like Mscaler (vs hqplayer)?

Sources right now are primarily Tidal/Sporify streaming, CDs as the PC I have is quiet noisy( literally , due to the fans ) , so don't turn it on for music playback. Will get a dedicated one for music in future