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Demoed Denon and Polk today - need advice

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argho

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Hi All.

Finally went to ProFX and took a demo of Denon 1610 and 1910, with Polk audio speakers.

A number of questions.

Video upscaling / Analog to Digital conversion :
---------------------------------------------
My primary interest is to remove cable clutter by using a single HDMI cable.
I need to connect 1)DVD player 2)Tata Sky box 3)WD HD TV 4)Wii

Both Denon 1610 and 1910 offers the ability to convert analog to digital and send video output via a single HDMI cable.

Q1 : Does the upscaling chip in 1910 really make a big difference ? I have a Samsung 50B450. The TV seems to do a decent upscaling job on its own.

Q2 : The sales guy said that only digital sound can be sent to the TV via HDMI. Tata sky has no digital optical/coaxial out. Therefore the HDMI out will not carry any audio. Is this correct ? Seems strange, as a audio analog->digital conversion must be much simpler than a video analog->digital conversion, which it does. I would therefore need to additionally connect analog audio out to TV in. This sort of ruins the whole point of having a single HDMI cable.


Speakers :
-----------------

Listened to the Polk RM705 5.1 set, TSi 100 bookshelf, and TSi300 floor standers. Clear difference between RM705 and the rest.

The TSi 100 sounded really good to my ears. The TSi300 is out of my price range. Unfortunately, he did not have TSi200 in stock for a demo.

Q3 : Is there a discernible difference between TSi100 and TSi200 ? (Pls keep in mind that I am not an audiophile. Am trying to learn.)



Prices :
-----------
Discussed prices for the following setups :

1. Denon 1910 + Polk TSi100 (fronts) + Polk RM705 (cente, surround, rear, sub-woofer). MRP Rs 81K. Price offered Rs 72 K.

2. Same setup, ut with Denon 1610 (yes I know, this leaves me with 2 surplus surround speakers). MRP Rs 65.9K. Price offered Rs 59.9K.

Q4 : What do you think of these prices ? Are they reasonable ? Can I get better ?


DVD Player :
-------------
Q5. What DVD player would you reccomend to go with the above ? What is the cost ?

Looking forward to some advice and info.
 

Raghav

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Q1 : Does the upscaling chip in 1910 really make a big difference ? I have a Samsung 50B450. The TV seems to do a decent upscaling job on its own.
Upscaling should not be the main concern, however 1910 has a very good Anchor Bay chip + it is a 7.1 system. Hence,i would recommend 1910 over 1610 if the budget permits.

Q3 : Is there a discernible difference between TSi100 and TSi200 ? (Pls keep in mind that I am not an audiophile. Am trying to learn.)
Not really. If you have the budget for TSi 200, consider the same price RTi A1. This would be much better than TSi 100.

Q4 : What do you think of these prices ? Are they reasonable ? Can I get better ?
Prices are good as long as you want to buy official. However, Denon 1910 can be as low as 31k in grey market.

Q5. What DVD player would you reccomend to go with the above ? What is the cost ?
Pioneer 610 for around 6k.

Looking forward to some advice and info.

I would suggest one more option.

7.1 Set: Denon 1910 with Wharfedale Diamond 9HCP (this is 5.1 like RM705, but much better) + Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 for fronts. Official around 80k

5.1 Set: Denon 1610 with Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 + WH2 Center +WH2 surrounds + Sub SW150. Official approx. 65k

Raghav
 
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argho

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Upscaling should not be the main concern, however 1910 has a very good Anchor Bay chip + it is a 7.1 system. Hence,i would recommend 1910 over 1610 if the budget permits.
Raghav

Tks. That's what I was thiinking too.
Is there a difference between the upscaling chip in the 1910 and 2310, or are they the same ? Impossible to tell from the specs.


Not really. If you have the budget for TSi 200, consider the same price RTi A1. This would be much better than TSi 100.
Raghav

I was wondering what is the difference between the TSi200 and the RT1 A1. There is just Rs 1000 difference. Can you explain a bit more please.

Prices are good as long as you want to buy official. However, Denon 1910 can be as low as 31k in grey market.
Raghav

Am a little worried about getting repairs done if anything goes wrong. Will ProFX undertake paid repairs/service for an imported / grey market unit ?


Pioneer 610 for around 6k.
Raghav

Tks. Any idea where I can buy Pioneer in Chennai ?


I would suggest one more option.

7.1 Set: Denon 1910 with Wharfedale Diamond 9HCP (this is 5.1 like RM705, but much better) + Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 for fronts. Official around 80k

5.1 Set: Denon 1610 with Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 + WH2 Center +WH2 surrounds + Sub SW150. Official approx. 65k
Raghav

Tks. Ver
Raghav[/QUOTE]

I hope that 80k includes the AV receiver, and is not the cost just for the speakers.

Any idea where I can demo Wharfdales in Chennai ?

Tks once again for all the advice / info.


Rgds.......Argho
 
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Raghav

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1. Do not really know the difference if any between the 1910 & 2310 upscaling chips. Others may help here. However, 1910 chip is considered very good. 2310 may be overkill for the speakers.

2. TSi 200 is basically the TSi 100 with an extra mid range driver. However, the RTi series is a higher one with better quality drivers and cabinet construction. I listened to both and found a significant difference. If you had selected TSi 100 it would be a costly upgrade, but with TSi 200 its only 1k extra.

3. Most electronics go wrong in 90 days otherwise they last years. Paid repairs are possible for without warranty goods. Not sure of ProFX but there are plenty others (dealers of profx or the other denon distributor KEI) who would do it.

4. No idea of chennai AV markets. others will help out.

5. Prices of the 5.1 and 7.1 sets were official prices with discount and inclusive of speakers, sub and avr.

Raghav
 
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argho

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Raghav,

Tks a ton for your helpful replies.

Another query (maybe a stupid one) for anyone willing to help.
Q : Is there a big difference in picture/sound quality between DVD players ? What if I simply buy a Samsung DVD player with HDMI out. As long as it is progressive scan, won't it be OK, as long as the speakers and receivers are good ?
 
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srikarkav

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Hi,

If you want to buy Pioneer 610 with bill and warranty you can get it here.May cost you 8K plus.

Grand Cinema,Kodambakkam, Phone-43587575.

You can also audition Wharfedales here .You can audition Maranatz AVRs too.Marantz and Wharfies are a great combo.Give them a try.

If you want to buy Pioneer in grey market you can get it at Burma Bazar for around 6.5k.

Pioneer 610 has the additional features of playing SACDs and DVD-Audio if you are interested. Yes the PQ is better than other similar priced DVDPs according to many forum guys here.

Hope this helps.

cheers,
sri
 
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venkatcr

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Q2 : The sales guy said that only digital sound can be sent to the TV via HDMI. Tata sky has no digital optical/coaxial out. Therefore the HDMI out will not carry any audio. Is this correct ? Seems strange, as a audio analog->digital conversion must be much simpler than a video analog->digital conversion, which it does. I would therefore need to additionally connect analog audio out to TV in. This sort of ruins the whole point of having a single HDMI cable.

The shopkeeper has confused you with some terminologies and methodologies. There is no question of conversion here. Please look at http://www.hifivision.com/audio-video-cables/2608-avr-connectivity.html for a detailed discussion on connection types.

Analogue connections are of three types - Composite, Component, and S-Video. A composite carries video and audio data, while the component and S-Video do not carry audio. These are video only connections.

Let us look at a few scenarios.

If you connect your STB to the AVR using a Composite, and the AVR to the TV through an HDMI, the audio data will be carried all the way to the TV. In the TV, you can set the HDMI audio 'on' of 'off' to decide whether the TV plays audio signals or not. By default, HDMI sets the audio to 'off' position as, in ost cases, audio is amplified and routed to the speakers.

If you use a component or S-Video, the AVR is itself not receiving any audio signal. Thus the HDMI does not have any audio signals to carry forward to the TV. You have two options here. One is to use a red and white RCA cable and connect the audio out of the STB or any other source in addition to the component or S-Video. You now have both video and audio flowing to the AVR and that will carry the same to the TV through it's HDMI connection. Remember, the audio continues to be in stereo mode.

The other option is to connect the source to the AVR using a digital audio connection such as coaxial, optical. Both these carry upto 8 channels of audio data which can, again, be carried forward to the TV. Of course, the AVR or TV will down sample these multi channel audio to two channels.

Cheers
 
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venkatcr

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I would also suggest you look at Q-Acoustics 5.1 speaker set as well as Pioneer's new DV-220 DVD Player that sells at an official price of 4,500. Though it does not support SACD, it plays DVD and audio CDs quite well, and has full 1080P up-scaling.

Cheers
 
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madbullram

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DVD Player :
-------------
Q5. What DVD player would you reccomend to go with the above ? What is the cost ?

Looking forward to some advice and info.

I am leaving the rest as we have enough experts in that arena. Now, since you have a WD, I will give you my experience. The Philips/LG/Samsung/Pioneer etc DVDp thats there in the market is not match when it comes to PQ rendered by WD TV. Infact, I dont use my Philips DVDp at all.

What I do these days is, get the DVD rip it and re-encode to .mkv format using handbrake. A 8 GB DVD reduces to 1.5 to 2.5 GB. Now play this file using WD TV. The difference in PQ between DVD played by any DVDp (except ofcourse high-end ones like Oppo) and the same dvd ripped and encoded played by WD TV is big.

Read my WD TV vs Philips vs Oppo thread for more details.

My suggestion is, get a normal DVDp for convenience and rip and reencode your DVDs and play via WD TV for best PQ experience.
 
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argho

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I am leaving the rest as we have enough experts in that arena. Now, since you have a WD, I will give you my experience. The Philips/LG/Samsung/Pioneer etc DVDp thats there in the market is not match when it comes to PQ rendered by WD TV. Infact, I dont use my Philips DVDp at all.

What I do these days is, get the DVD rip it and re-encode to .mkv format using handbrake. A 8 GB DVD reduces to 1.5 to 2.5 GB. Now play this file using WD TV. The difference in PQ between DVD played by any DVDp (except ofcourse high-end ones like Oppo) and the same dvd ripped and encoded played by WD TV is big.

Read my WD TV vs Philips vs Oppo thread for more details.

My suggestion is, get a normal DVDp for convenience and rip and reencode your DVDs and play via WD TV for best PQ experience.

That is an option. But ripping all my DVDs will take quite a while. And am not so sure that PQ of a ripped DVD played back via WD TV is better. Could be because of software/settings (I use MakeMKV, not Handbrake).

Somehow would feel strange not to have a DVD/CD player, and use only my WD TV and iPod. But it is a thought.
 
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argho

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The shopkeeper has confused you with some terminologies and methodologies. There is no question of conversion here. Please look at http://www.hifivision.com/audio-video-cables/2608-avr-connectivity.html for a detailed discussion on connection types.

Analogue connections are of three types - Composite, Component, and S-Video. A composite carries video and audio data, while the component and S-Video do not carry audio. These are video only connections.

Let us look at a few scenarios.

If you connect your STB to the AVR using a Composite, and the AVR to the TV through an HDMI, the audio data will be carried all the way to the TV. In the TV, you can set the HDMI audio 'on' of 'off' to decide whether the TV plays audio signals or not. By default, HDMI sets the audio to 'off' position as, in ost cases, audio is amplified and routed to the speakers.

If you use a component or S-Video, the AVR is itself not receiving any audio signal. Thus the HDMI does not have any audio signals to carry forward to the TV. You have two options here. One is to use a red and white RCA cable and connect the audio out of the STB or any other source in addition to the component or S-Video. You now have both video and audio flowing to the AVR and that will carry the same to the TV through it's HDMI connection. Remember, the audio continues to be in stereo mode.

The other option is to connect the source to the AVR using a digital audio connection such as coaxial, optical. Both these carry upto 8 channels of audio data which can, again, be carried forward to the TV. Of course, the AVR or TV will down sample these multi channel audio to two channels.

Cheers

I think I am getting even more confused.

What I mean by a composite Video cable is the yellow RCA jack on the back of the Tata SKY STB. This carries only the video signal. Say I connect this to the AVR.

In addition, I connect the analog audio (red and white) to the AVR.

Q : Will the AVR convert and send the Video and Audio to the TV via HDMI ?
 
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argho

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Hi,

If you want to buy Pioneer 610 with bill and warranty you can get it here.May cost you 8K plus.

Grand Cinema,Kodambakkam, Phone-43587575.

You can also audition Wharfedales here .You can audition Maranatz AVRs too.Marantz and Wharfies are a great combo.Give them a try.

If you want to buy Pioneer in grey market you can get it at Burma Bazar for around 6.5k.

Pioneer 610 has the additional features of playing SACDs and DVD-Audio if you are interested. Yes the PQ is better than other similar priced DVDPs according to many forum guys here.

Hope this helps.

cheers,
sri

Thanks Sri. Very helpful.
Will need to find some time and go to Grand Cinema.
 
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venkatcr

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Q : Will the AVR convert and send the Video and Audio to the TV via HDMI ?

A composite consists of three cables - an yellow that carries the video and a red and white that carry the audio.

As I said before, if you use a composite cable to connect the source to the AVR, the HDMI from AVR to TV will carry the audio signals.

Cheers.
 
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argho

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Spoke to ProFX. Asked about Polk RTi A1 as suggested.

Price offered - Rs 77K for :
Denon 1910 AVR + Polk RTi A1 + Polk RM705

Am tempted, but guess will hold off till I can go and demo the Wharfdales.
 
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argho

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Been reading some of the threads on speaker stands.
Stands appear to be quite expensive.

Just wondering - moving up from Polk TSi 200 bookshelf speakers, to TSi 300 floor standers is Rs 7 K more. This appears to be around the same price as a decent pair of stands. And, with floorstanders, I get better sound quality + no need to buy stands.

Am I thinking wrong ?

I seem to be headed helplessly down the path of increasing my budget again and again. Someone pls bring me back to my senses.
 
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Raghav

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Also all the increase in your budget is directed towards the front speakers alone. This will leave you with relatively inferior centre and surrounds. That will affect quality when playing all the speakers together.

You would get benefits when listening in stereo mode only. For 5.1 the center speaker is the most important. Plus surrounds also come into play.

Raghav

Been reading some of the threads on speaker stands.
Stands appear to be quite expensive.

Just wondering - moving up from Polk TSi 200 bookshelf speakers, to TSi 300 floor standers is Rs 7 K more. This appears to be around the same price as a decent pair of stands. And, with floorstanders, I get better sound quality + no need to buy stands.

Am I thinking wrong ?

I seem to be headed helplessly down the path of increasing my budget again and again. Someone pls bring me back to my senses.
 
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venkatcr

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Just wondering - moving up from Polk TSi 200 bookshelf speakers, to TSi 300 floor standers is Rs 7 K more. This appears to be around the same price as a decent pair of stands. And, with floorstanders, I get better sound quality + no need to buy stands.

Am I thinking wrong ?

If it is your own house or if you are living in a rented house with a good landlord, you have options of mounting the bookshelves on the wall with what are called wall brackets. These will cost some 1500 or so per pair depending upon the speakers.

Cheers
 
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umeshdhingra

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Hi guys,
i have bene reading a lot on these forumns as i also need to decide on a good set of speakers for Denon 1909.

I have done a demo of wharfedale speakers last week , i heard wharf 9.1, 10.6 and Signature series ( EVO 30) , EVO 30 the front row speakers were world class , even thoughthe 9 and 10 series of Wharfadale were equally good .

Not much of a demo on 5.1 system as I spent very less time on a demo for 5.1 system , one reason was the place I went for demo didnt have the Wharfadale sub woofer to go wioth the EVO 30 series.

This week I plan to hear the demo on Dali Ikon 6 and dali concept plus Polk Audio, and would then decide .

Will keep updating this forumn post as and when I have something to contribute.

cheers,
and now back to cricket match , hoping that the rains have stopped !!

umesh
 
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prash2k01

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Hi Venkat,
for wall mounting I saw some where in the form that there should be some significant distance from the wall for BS in order to get best sound.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
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jareen

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Hi friends,
I am very very new to the forum, though i have been following it for last few months. I am more or less in the same boat as Argho. Could somebody please post the prices( official) of 1610 and diamond 10.1 (5.1 with 150SW) seperately. Also I am being offered diamond 9.5 with 9.CS, DFS and 150SW for around 65K in Ahmedabad. While I think it is extremely bloated, I have no reference to bargain with the dealer. I liked the sound very much but cant afford it at that price.:eek:. Will be much obliged .
 
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