diy projector

[kaushik]

wow good to see veteran diy pj makers like god,quad here......
kaushik you try this once.u will never regret..belive me..only problem of this diy is high cost...if you are ready to spend (since u already have a projector hehe)..you will enjoy the results.trust me friend.

prosenjit i was cooking the idea, but the large size of diy boxes were a turn off
so took a smart call on dell m110.

but i am fascinated by LEDs and have a supplier here with all drivers . Fitting the dell with a strong beam of light may be next thing .Only issue is it is too compact so the case has to be opened and put in a new case with some periscope like arrangement may be one way .

 

[god2007]

@prosenjit ,
great to know the limitations. But i know for a fact that pretty good HT projectors have 2500lumens , or may be i am noob at it!

9000lumens ? god may be you are referring 3 -4 lakh ones

The lumens both of you are talking about are from different contexts. In case of the commercial projectors the lumens quoted is the light output from the projector ( or screen brightness). Thus 2500 lumens is sufficient.

In the context of DIY projector, the lumen often refers to the light output of the bulb. For example the out put of a 250W MH lamp is about 23000 lumens. The real out put from the projection light is estimated to be about 5-10% only. Thus with a 23000 lumens MH bulb and 10% output, the screen brightness comes to 2300 lumens.
Remaining 90% of the light is wasted.

 

[cmsajith]

The lumens both of you are talking about are from different contexts. In case of the commercial projectors the lumens quoted is the light output from the projector ( or screen brightness). Thus 2500 lumens is sufficient.

In the context of DIY projector, the lumen often refers to the light output of the bulb. For example the out put of a 250W MH lamp is about 23000 lumens. The real out put from the projection light is estimated to be about 5-10% only. Thus with a 23000 lumens MH bulb and 10% output, the screen brightness comes to 2300 lumens.
Remaining 90% of the light is wasted.

Are you sure? From my experience and as per different forums the effective o/p from a 250w HID at the screen will be around 600-800lumens max. I had used a 400w HID to get a decent light o/p, one of my friend was using 250w and I didnt like the o/p even in a dark room.

 

[prosenjit]

to god..u r absoluty right.I already said the same logic to koushik...:clapping:

to cmjsajith...the ultimate screen lumen varies largly to different diy designs according to parts/alignment used..may be 2000 lumen or 300 lumen also...
and god daid the value 2500 just as an example to elaborate..

to kaushik..very nice idea of the periscope thing.:clapping:
u shd try hertzblaster leds over normally avialable leds..they are super super powerful.
by the way why will you mod ur present pj...is it giving dim output.before mod u shd meusure screen lumen..may be after mod you will get the same output.before proceed and invest check that.in my opinion if you diy using powerful leds..why dont invest some more and diy a total pj.
u dont have to buy very high res lcd.use svga res lcd,and U can use it as always tv purpose...
or gift it to ur wife:yahoo:..hehe.just an idea.

 

[god2007]

Are you sure? From my experience and as per different forums the effective o/p from a 250w HID at the screen will be around 600-800lumens max. I had used a 400w HID to get a decent light o/p, one of my friend was using 250w and I didnt like the o/p even in a dark room.

I do not have any means to measure the screen brightness. I used the data available elsewhere. Here is one of the liks:
http://z6.invisionfree.com/diyprojectorphils/index.php?showtopic=736&view=findpost&p=14998533

The aim was not to give an accurate lumen count, but to clear the doubt raised regarding the very high lumens quoted for the DIY projector.

I am also using a 250W MH bulb. Yes, the image is not that bright, but still watchable. This was my first build, and I was thought that 400W is too high. But now I feels that I should have used 400W lamp. I also found that the alignment of the fresnels and the lens is very important and any slight misalignment reduces the screen brightness very much. My set up is not entirely useless and is used frequently, especially by the kids.

How do you determined that the screen brightness is "around 600-800 lumens max " ? Please tell me how to measure the screen brightness, so that I can measure mine and post the results.

 

[prosenjit]

sedng more screenies.enjoy.

 

[cmsajith]

Please tell me how to measure the screen brightness, so that I can measure mine and post the results.

You can use a lux meter, Lux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I havent measured mine, but from those who had used 400w HIDs and posted using the lux meters says that it will be ~600-700, not more than 1000 (even after stripping the non-reflective layer)

 

[cmsajith]

the ultimate screen lumen varies largly to different diy designs according to parts/alignment used..may be 2000 lumen or 300 lumen also...

I remember reading that the measurement taken using lux meter by people who had used the Lumenlab parts, after all the possible tweaks. Getting more than 1000 or even 800 is not possible in the diy projector.

 

[god2007]

@cmsajith:
Are you still using your DIY projector, what is the screen size and can post some pics ?

In my case, the picture is perfectly watchable at 60-70 screen size, quality decreases with increasing size. I have mounted it on an old computer table with wheels, hence, can be moved to adjust the screen size.

 

[prosenjit]

I remember reading that the measurement taken using lux meter by people who had used the Lumenlab parts, after all the possible tweaks. Getting more than 1000 or even 800 is not possible in the diy projector.

definitly possible.but yes not with lumanlab design.hyeah:
with big arc bulb not possible.U have to use small arc bulb or leds.
use hertzblasters design.its definitly possible.visit sometime hertzblasters site...and have a look on his builds.he is the god in diy pj field.I am using his parts presently and is very satisfied even witha big arc bulb.

 

[cmsajith]

definitly possible.but yes not with lumanlab design.hyeah:
with big arc bulb not possible.U have to use small arc bulb or leds.
use hertzblasters design.its definitly possible.visit sometime hertzblasters site...and have a look on his builds.he is the god in diy pj field.I am using his parts presently and is very satisfied even witha big arc bulb.

Can you enlighten me a single difference between the Lumenlab design and hertzblaster's design? Its ditto copy from lumenlab design, except the led instead of HID. I had tried with both osram powerball and osram's single point HID light, both are having the same result, only difference will be a slight reduction of the size in the light assembly.

 

[cmsajith]

@cmsajith:
Are you still using your DIY projector, what is the screen size and can post some pics ?

In my case, the picture is perfectly watchable at 60-70 screen size, quality decreases with increasing size. I have mounted it on an old computer table with wheels, hence, can be moved to adjust the screen size.

I am not using it now. For a 60" screen, its more than enough. I tried with 110" screen with 400w HID (250w was not at all bright enough) with a 15" 720p native screen, its perfect, but due to the box size I didnt use it. Its kept as it is in its pack and I am planning to sell it off.

Since the box size was bugging me, I bought a readymade one from canada thru my friend which is also based on the diy design with 5" lcd (720p). Recently I sold that one as I am currently using Optoma HD20.

In diy pj, getting a good screen with a 5" or 7" with acceptable resolution is the difficult part.

 

[prosenjit]

Can you enlighten me a single difference between the Lumenlab design and hertzblaster's design? Its ditto copy from lumenlab design, except the led instead of HID. I had tried with both osram powerball and osram's single point HID light, both are having the same result, only difference will be a slight reduction of the size in the light assembly.

oh yes definitly I can enlighten with plesure.
yes by main design theory hertzblaster design is ditto from lumenlab.no doubt lumenlab design is the pioneer in diy pj.but hertzblaster made the diy pj at par with any branded pj under 1 lakh..above 1 lakh pjs quality is really almost impossible to achive by diy pj.thats a fact
the modifications done by hertzblaster are...
1.small arc bulb.in big bulb condenser and reflector use is inefficient.but with small arc bulb with easily avilable condenser and reflector set up makes wonder.big reflector and condenser has to be custom made.so that option is a difficulty.

2.very imp...small lcd..like 7 inch and 10 inch which gives a super corner to corner brightness.

3.led with water cooling just like liquied cooled cpu.no branded pj company even today is able to do so.in that point hertz is no less than a scientist.and led unlike bulb throws light towards a single direction so results are super.almost 90 % of led lumen is thwroed upon lcd.


u used powerball!!!!!!!!.how many watts.250 watt powerball is very diificult to find in india.......is it powerstar?? or a real powerball??if powerball please share the place and shop.
only upto 150 watt phillips cdm-t(brother of powerball) is avilable in india

u also said led makes only a diffrence in light assembly!!!!!!!
its a complete nono.led makes the output far far better than bulb if proper powerfull like 100w led is used.yes those small 30w will do nothing.reason simple...led light in a single direction..no waste like bulb light scattering all the way.
100w led say with 8000 lumen.......here the lcd can absorb almost 7000 lumen and result say.......1000 lumen...but in a bulb with 20000 lumen......only 4000 lumen possibley can be reached at lcd surface as the bulb is scattring lght in every direction..up down..right left all..so only 600 lumen say be the output.lumens are not exact..just close values..

was my all points clear??

 

[prosenjit]

I am not using it now. For a 60" screen, its more than enough. I tried with 110" screen with 400w HID (250w was not at all bright enough) with a 15" 720p native screen, its perfect, but due to the box size I didnt use it. Its kept as it is in its pack and I am planning to sell it off.

Since the box size was bugging me, I bought a readymade one from canada thru my friend which is also based on the diy design with 5" lcd (720p). Recently I sold that one as I am currently using Optoma HD20.

In diy pj, getting a good screen with a 5" or 7" with acceptable resolution is the difficult part.

I respectfully disagree that statement completly my friend.:lol::lol:
its not a problem getting a 5 inch or 7 inch lcd with controller.they are avilable like anything.......
hertzblaster is selling at a throw away price around 7000 rupee.. 7 inch true 720p lcd alongwith 7 in 1 hdmi controller pcb.

and 5.6 inch boe hydis true 720p lcd alongwith 7 in 1 hdmi contrller is avilable in e bay china plus at vitrolite at around 170 us doller without shipping and duty.in fact one of hertzblaster student and a guy from russian diyprojector site also has succesfully build diy pj with the 5.6 inch lcd model.........hyeah:hyeah:

also enjoytouch sells small hi res lcds....

even in india delhi itself also at beyondinfinite they sell 7 inch and 10 inch true 720p lcd model with controller.......but price is higher than import.

those hi res but small lcds are actually in production to supply various tablets,I Pads and costly mobile phone screens.........in fact 5 inch 1080p lcd has been also launched by LG and some other brand.price is sky high though.

so today in diy pj getting a small screen with good reso is highly possible...

 

[cmsajith]

Really funny to see how people made somebody's design as their by simply doing some tweaking. Whatever this guy's so called design, as far as I know, it was already done by several people in the lumenlab forum (it seems that this forum is not active as lumenlab had diverted from this to robotics). They had used both HIDs with small arc and big arc bulbs. I had made the pj years back (due to budget constraint I used 400w big arc bulb and 1280x720 lcd) and at that time people had made pjs using 7" / 10.6" samsung HD lcds (even somebody had made 1080p pjs too). FYI, the lcd which you are using is not a true 720p lcd, the controller will scale the image to its native resolution (1280x800). Also few people had tried leds, but the issue was the high cost at that time.

The main issue at that time was getting small size 720p/1080p lcds in retail, but lumenlab had their own pjs using 5"/7" lcds with compact designs as commercial projectors. Its not any kind of discovery / invention by using leds instead of hid using 7" lcds when these are available easily. Also I remember during that time one guy from china was selling 720p/1080p samsung 10.1" panels (~10k). The cost was the issue and even now also there is not a huge change in that. But, nobody ever claimed the DIY PJ as their invention. So dont try to teach me on his so called inventions. As per my understanding he is able to source small lcds in bulk and able to replace the HID with LEDs, nothing more than that, its because of the technology advancement, not because of him. I clearly remember reading this guys posts in lumenlab in several build threads and his own pj threads using lumenlab kits.

I am not trying to highlight / degrade someones effort, but on seeing publicly violating and misusing somebody's IP, I have to write this (I am not sure whether this guy got the approval, if so then, only the followers are making IP claims).

 

[cmsajith]

oh yes definitly I can enlighten with plesure.
yes by main design theory hertzblaster design is ditto from lumenlab.no doubt lumenlab design is the pioneer in diy pj.but hertzblaster made the diy pj at par with any branded pj under 1 lakh..above 1 lakh pjs quality is really almost impossible to achive by diy pj.thats a fact
the modifications done by hertzblaster are...
1.small arc bulb.in big bulb condenser and reflector use is inefficient.but with small arc bulb with easily avilable condenser and reflector set up makes wonder.big reflector and condenser has to be custom made.so that option is a difficulty.

2.very imp...small lcd..like 7 inch and 10 inch which gives a super corner to corner brightness.

3.led with water cooling just like liquied cooled cpu.no branded pj company even today is able to do so.in that point hertz is no less than a scientist.and led unlike bulb throws light towards a single direction so results are super.almost 90 % of led lumen is thwroed upon lcd.


u used powerball!!!!!!!!.how many watts.250 watt powerball is very diificult to find in india.......is it powerstar?? or a real powerball??if powerball please share the place and shop.
only upto 150 watt phillips cdm-t(brother of powerball) is avilable in india

u also said led makes only a diffrence in light assembly!!!!!!!
its a complete nono.led makes the output far far better than bulb if proper powerfull like 100w led is used.yes those small 30w will do nothing.reason simple...led light in a single direction..no waste like bulb light scattering all the way.
100w led say with 8000 lumen.......here the lcd can absorb almost 7000 lumen and result say.......1000 lumen...but in a bulb with 20000 lumen......only 4000 lumen possibley can be reached at lcd surface as the bulb is scattring lght in every direction..up down..right left all..so only 600 lumen say be the output.lumens are not exact..just close values..

was my all points clear??

Guys dont get misguided by the BS claims that the DIY PJS can have the PQ par with 1Lakh projectors, from your pics in diyaudio itself its very clear, its not even near to the entry level 1080p projectors. To all, DIY PJ will give you a starting point and will give you a satisfactory PQ considering the amount you spent and the main thing is the joy of doing things by your own. Once you start comparing it with commercial pjs, we will find the deficiencies and it depends on the individual whether he want to upgrade or not (similar to audio). So just dont blindly follow something and dont misguide others by comparing it with 1lakh pjs.

The bulb I had used was 400w 5200K Osram powerstar and powerball was a typo as it was used ~4 or 5 years back (just checked the bulb)

 

[god2007]

..........To all, DIY PJ will give you a starting point and will give you a satisfactory PQ considering the amount you spent and the main thing is the joy of doing things by your own........................

This is my view as well on the matter.

The physics ( or rather optics) of a projector is the same who ever designs it. Only some tweeking here and there only can be done. In my school days, I used to sent sun light using a mirror in to a room and used a small lens with pieces of film discarded from theatres to project an image ( not a moving one).But that was a crude one and I am sure every child must have done it at least once. It is the same basic principle used even in projectors costing lakhs of rupees. Be it lumen lab project designer, or hertzblaster in philipines or us here in this forum.
What it ultimately boils down to is that there is a limit what a DIYer can do, compared with a commercial product. If you look carefully, the motive behind all the DIY projector works are either to make it at low cost, or to circumvent the shorter bulb life and not to have a better image. If we spent only less than Rs. 10K for a DIY projector, and it gives a watchable image, it is OK. But if it requires 25K rupees, I would rather buy a commercial one.
So far I had spent about 9K on it and not going to spent any more on it.

Having finished the DIY urge, my next projector will a commercial one, as cmsajith has done.

 

[prosenjit]

to cmjsajith...I am always saying lumenlab is pioneer.they are the first of its kind in diy pj field..thats undebatable....
.yes one point of yours is very correct..that the controller will scale the signal into 1280X800 that is not true 720p.but not in my case.....
what I meant by 720p was that semi hd reso range to easy identification.
but for your information the controller I am using has a feutrure of scaling on-off as per choice in the remote control advanced setting.so if I put it into off it wont upscale the signal....

I never told hertzblaster invented diy pj:lol:.I said he is the god of diy pj field.its simple.everyone tried diy pjs..but results like him..can u share someones build output of the same quality.

but one thing he invented really.diy water cooled leds...can you show me someone who first used it in a diy pj.....

I was very sure u did not use powerball..urs was powerstar......250w powerball with reflector condenser will give u at least 30% more overall brightness than 400 w powerstar.
u forgot ur own diy pj parts specification!!!!!!!!!!strange...

can u post some pics of ur diy pj screenies.so maybe I can realise I did a mistake investing 25k and not 10k..........by considering my last screenies is at par with urs..or worse than urs......

also u mentioned getting a good reso small lcd is difficult..please add this point ......at a lucrative price for u.....

anyway it does not cost us a buck to praise someones hardwork.

to god..yes god I agree with u.diyers has their limits in investing.thats the difficulty.
and investing above 25k in diy or getting a new dell/acer/e gate at about 30k maybe better option.I am not arguing we shd not never try 30k range branded pjs and simply jump blindly into 25k diy pj kit.no I am not saying this.but in diy pj better parts of course has a better result.under 10k its difficult to make one which can compete with a branded one.thats my point.u got it??
also my point is if ultimatly we invest in diy then why not make someting which at least can compete with a branded pj.otherwise say at 8k someone makes a pj and cant enjoy a cinema in it so whats the point...

 

[prosenjit]

to cmjsajith.........I never advertised any parts or kits in this thread.I started this thred to share my build fun for those who are intersted.if you already have made the pj and have enough knowledge and not interested to make... why care?
today all are enough intelligent to decide whats right for them...
also...
ur first post in this thread was about ur parts sell...its you who advertised to sell ur old dismantled parts into this thread
I am very ashamed to get this kind of behavoir from a fellow diyer.....
u have complete rights to advert about ur parts by creating another thread...

 

[prosenjit]

I had built a DIY projector long time back using Lumenlab S15 kit using a 720p native panel and I had used it for some time till I bought another 720p native compact projector (5" lcd). Since then I am not using it and dismantled it and kept in the attic. If any body wanted to do it I am planning to sell it off including the panel and light kit (arrange them in a proper enclosure and the pj will be ready).

ur first post..............